"Some" TWA Pilots at AA deemed newhires...

[AA717driver]

From Eagle ALPA:

Fellow pilots,

This afternoon, we received a decision in the Letter 3 grievance related to employment opportunities generated by the acquisition of TWA by AA. ALPA and American Eagle’s position in this grievance was that the acquisition of TWA was not a simple merger and that the hiring of TWA pilots by AA as part of the integration process should have generated employment opportunities for Eagle CJ Captains who did not elect Eagle Rights. Arbitrator LaRocco ruled that TWA pilots who had been hired and trained at AA prior to the furlough were not ‘new hires’ and did not generate employment opportunities for flow-through pilots. On the other hand, he ruled that the approximately 1,500 TWA pilots who were furloughed directly from TWA, LLC. with recall rights to AA will generate employment opportunities, including AA pilot seniority numbers, for Eagle CJ Captains who elect flow-through.

Arbitrator LaRocco remanded the issue of appropriate remedy to the parties for discussion. Although not a complete victory for the Association, we are extremely pleased that successful implementation of the award will generate employment opportunities, including AA pilot seniority numbers, for CJ Captains who have elected flow-through.

Next week, we will be arbitrating a different Letter 3 grievance which will establish whether Eagle CJ Captains who hold AA pilot seniority numbers and have completed their lock-in, should be trained at AA in order of their AA pilot seniority.

Recently, the Association prevailed in another case in which AMR management had tried to recoup Eagle wages from furloughed American pilots who had attended Basic Indoctrination, returned home awaiting systems training, and then elected not to return upon the assignment of such training.

We want to thank all Eagle pilots for their unwavering support in what has been a long and up-hill battle to protect the rights of Eagle pilots under Letter 3. We will keep you updated as further events unfold.

Fraternally,

Captain Herb Mark

------------------------

So, how can "some" former TWA pilots not be deemed "newhires" while others are? Now I understand the U/AWA integration decision... TC

P.S.--Looks like eaglefly will have to put up or shut up.

 

[eaglefly]

From Eagle ALPA:

Fellow pilots,

This afternoon, we received a decision in the Letter 3 grievance related to employment opportunities generated by the acquisition of TWA by AA. ALPA and American Eagle’s position in this grievance was that the acquisition of TWA was not a simple merger and that the hiring of TWA pilots by AA as part of the integration process should have generated employment opportunities for Eagle CJ Captains who did not elect Eagle Rights. Arbitrator LaRocco ruled that TWA pilots who had been hired and trained at AA prior to the furlough were not ‘new hires’ and did not generate employment opportunities for flow-through pilots. On the other hand, he ruled that the approximately 1,500 TWA pilots who were furloughed directly from TWA, LLC. with recall rights to AA will generate employment opportunities, including AA pilot seniority numbers, for Eagle CJ Captains who elect flow-through.

Arbitrator LaRocco remanded the issue of appropriate remedy to the parties for discussion. Although not a complete victory for the Association, we are extremely pleased that successful implementation of the award will generate employment opportunities, including AA pilot seniority numbers, for CJ Captains who have elected flow-through.

Next week, we will be arbitrating a different Letter 3 grievance which will establish whether Eagle CJ Captains who hold AA pilot seniority numbers and have completed their lock-in, should be trained at AA in order of their AA pilot seniority.

Recently, the Association prevailed in another case in which AMR management had tried to recoup Eagle wages from furloughed American pilots who had attended Basic Indoctrination, returned home awaiting systems training, and then elected not to return upon the assignment of such training.

We want to thank all Eagle pilots for their unwavering support in what has been a long and up-hill battle to protect the rights of Eagle pilots under Letter 3. We will keep you updated as further events unfold.

Fraternally,

Captain Herb Mark

------------------------

So, how can "some" former TWA pilots not be deemed "newhires" while others are? Now I understand the U/AWA integration decision... TC

P.S.--Looks like eaglefly will have to put up or shut up.

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big bad Eaglefly, the cause of every airline problem.

Eaglefly won't have to put up Jack. Haven't heard this from a reliable source yet, so I'll see what it means. However it doesn't appear to force anyone over to AA anyway, so nothing will likely change in that regard.

As such, I have no worries about proving anything to anybody.............certainly not here.

 

[Flyby1206]

Not sure if I understand it correctly, but I think it goes like this: There were 1500 TWA pilots never made it to the schoolhouse before they were furloughed, so when they do return to AA they will be considered 'newhires.' The flowthrough agreement states that 50% of the AA newhires will be AE CAs, so 750 AE CAs should be issued AA #s. BUT, in the past newhire classes (Early 2000s) there was never a 50/50 ratio of AE pilots and street pilots, so I don't see why they would have to honor this. Also, 750 new AA #s should be issued to AE guys if every single of those 1500 furloughed TWA pilots came back. So figure if 500 come back then 250 AE guys get a #. Its all a mess and nobody knows how it will turn out except the AMR mgmt.

 

[AA717driver]

eaglefly--I meant you'd have to take the flowthrough or not. I was jerking your chain.

This appears to be one of the more screwed up arbitrator's decisions I've seen. He doesn't appear to have solved anything. I guess it's the legal profession's version of a punt. TC

 

[eaglefly]

eaglefly--I meant you'd have to take the flowthrough or not. I was jerking your chain.

This appears to be one of the more screwed up arbitrator's decisions I've seen. He doesn't appear to have solved anything. I guess it's the legal profession's version of a punt. TC

I understand where your coming from bro............really I do.

Admittedly, from a purely economic standpoint I'm overpaid and an AA super 80 crew is currently underpaid. IF AMR did the BK thing, I'd be bunking pay-wise with the rest of the regional pack. They didn't and thus I'm not.

The PUP bonuses should tell all why they didn't and won't unless NO other alternatives. I wanted to go to AA as little as a few years ago.

Things change.

I still may be forced to go, but I don't think so. Those who want to should and likely will.

Now.............for the rest of the crowd. Lets get back to bashing eaglefly as a liar and the cause of the industries problems.

 

[AA717driver]

eaglefly--before we start piling on again, how hard is it to refuse to go to AA once you've declared you want to flowthrough and been given a number?

I don't see any provision for that in Sup. W (I thought I'd read that you could stay at AE). TC

 

[igneousy2]

Not sure if I understand it correctly, but I think it goes like this: There were 1500 TWA pilots never made it to the schoolhouse before they were furloughed, so when they do return to AA they will be considered 'newhires.' The flowthrough agreement states that 50% of the AA newhires will be AE CAs, so 750 AE CAs should be issued AA #s. BUT, in the past newhire classes (Early 2000s) there was never a 50/50 ratio of AE pilots and street pilots, so I don't see why they would have to honor this. Also, 750 new AA #s should be issued to AE guys if every single of those 1500 furloughed TWA pilots came back. So figure if 500 come back then 250 AE guys get a #. Its all a mess and nobody knows how it will turn out except the AMR mgmt.

It goes back further than that.

The premise of letter-3 is that AE would give AA furlough protection (flush-back) in exchange for 50% of all new hires coming from the Eagle ranks.

There are 3 types of pilots directly effected by the flow-through/flush-back fiasco.

1. Eagle RJ CA's WITH AA seniority numbers (senior to 70% +/- of the TWA pilots)
2. Eagle RJ CA's WITH AA seniority numbers (junior to 100% of the TWA pilots)
3. Eagle RJ CA's WITHOUT AA seniority numbers that should have gotten seniority numbers in my opinion - unfortunately my opinion does not count - the aribitrator already decided they don't get the numbers because TWA pilots are do not count as new hires under LOA - 3.

Because of the lost arbitration, None of the TWA pilots were counted as new hires...they were only transitioning companies and therefore not "new hires". Because of this, no new seniority numbers were issued to any Eagle pilots using TWA pilots in the calculation...As a further f-you to the Eagle pilots these same TWA pilots that did not count toward the 50% were allowed to flush-back to Eagle displacing the RJ CA's that should have been given AA numbers, out of their RJ CA seats. (AA was hiring "real-new-hires" during the integration so numbers were issued on this much smaller number of pilots)

Now you have many RJ CA's that are senior to ALL of the TWA pilots that are still furloughed. And still more RJ CA's senior to the most junior "AA" guys. Now the issue is...who do you call back first? I'm sure Eagle pilots will be reemed once again.

As far as issuing the next 750 numbers...

1. Letter 3 will probably expire by then
2. Not sure of the recent numbers but after 9/11 most of the RJ CA's were selecting "Eagle Rights"
3. Even if Letter 3 is in force when all of this is going down...Letter 3 requires a 24 month seat lock...which is definetly beyond the duration of Letter 3.

good luck

 

[igneousy2]

Not sure if I understand it correctly, but I think it goes like this: There were 1500 TWA pilots never made it to the schoolhouse before they were furloughed, so when they do return to AA they will be considered 'newhires.' The flowthrough agreement states that 50% of the AA newhires will be AE CAs, so 750 AE CAs should be issued AA #s. BUT, in the past newhire classes (Early 2000s) there was never a 50/50 ratio of AE pilots and street pilots, so I don't see why they would have to honor this. Also, 750 new AA #s should be issued to AE guys if every single of those 1500 furloughed TWA pilots came back. So figure if 500 come back then 250 AE guys get a #. Its all a mess and nobody knows how it will turn out except the AMR mgmt.

Letter 3 requires that AE pilots get seniority numbers for 50% of the new hire classes. So if they had a class of 50, 25 QUALIFIED AE pilots would receive numbers. The key word is QUALIFIED. According to letter 3 qualified means RJ-Captain that completed IOE. During the Late 1990's, early 2000's, AA was hiring a crap load of pilots, 90 a month at one point. During this period Eagle was not training enough RJ CA's so that all of the seniority numbers that Eagle could have qualified for were issued. Letter 3 does not allow for a "bank" so if AA hired 90 (so 45 numbers) and Eagle only had 35 qualified CA's then those 10 numbers were not issued and were gone forever. By the time the 21st century rolled around, Eagle CA upgrading was finally starting to keep up with AA hiring...and then AA started to transition TWA. AA was adding 90 a month but only 45-50 counted in "the calculation" so it started to backup the number of RJ CA's that were awaiting a number.

That is why in the late 90's early 2000's Eagle did not receive their 50%. AA was following the Letter "to the letter".

Later

 

[Vastly Underemp]

So, let's say I'm a furloughed TWA-LLC pilot, having never been through DSI (Dark Side Indoctrination), and now if and when I get a recall notice I can expect to return as a new hire, including all that implies: first year pay, probation, no time credit towards longevity, no time credit towards being vested in the retirement plans, AND, as an added bonus up the assus and being 2/3 of the way down the recall list, I now have an additional 500 pilots suddenly senior to me. Ooooooooo, I can't wait!!!

 

[AA717driver]

VU--You will not return as a "newhire". In fact, the arbitrator never used the term "newhire". He used "job opportunities", I believe. (I still havent' seen the full document.)

All returning furloughees will return with the longevity they had at the time of their furlough. TC