Some thoughts from a controller

[Rizzo]

1. Please fly your plane. If you are in a CRJ departing YOW, I shouldn't have to pull teeth to get you to cross SYR above FL280. Fly the plane like it's meant to be flown and we'll all be happy.

2. Do not randomly pull back to Mach .65 without telling us.

3. When we ask for your Mach number, don't waste our time by coming back with "what do you need". I need to know your Mach number. Just give it to me.

4. Cross a fix at a specific altitude IS a pilot's discretion descent.

5. If weather conditions are marginal, please don't take off VFR...get your clearance on the ground.

6. Don't get mad at us when we have to turn you 60 degrees for spacing. It's your airline that schedules 100 planes to land in ORD/EWR/wherever at the same time.

 

[Flysher]

Good info. In all seriousness, anything us prop guys going into and out of the big airports can do better besides go as fast as our little engines will allow?

 

[The_Russian]

6. Don't get mad at us when we have to turn you 60 degrees for spacing. It's your airline that schedules 100 planes to land in ORD/EWR/wherever at the same time.

I never understood why pilots get mad about this one. We get paid by the hour! C'mon guys!

Good info. In all seriousness, anything us prop guys going into and out of the big airports can do better besides go as fast as our little engines will allow?

Take the little-itty-bitty runway pookie pie.

 

[cheyflyer]

2. Do not randomly pull back to Mach .65 without telling us.

3. When we ask for your Mach number, don't waste our time by coming back with "what do you need". I need to know your Mach number. Just give it to me.

#2... Pulling the power back for an extra .1 or .2 of pay used to drive me nuts! and still would. If you need the extra cash, just get there, lie on the times and take your chances...dont screw the pax.


#3. I dont get that one either, I hear it all the time on Houston center and think....thats not what he asked you. And whats with the smart a$$ tone when the controllers ask you that?

cf

 

[CA1900]

I never understood why pilots get mad about this one. We get paid by the hour! C'mon guys!

Not all pilots are paid by the hour. Some are on salary, some are paid by average block. (And some airline pilots even pay by the hour!)

 

[Motive Flow]

First, thanks for your thoughts.

For #2, one reason may be fuel. Okay .65 is a bit much. But what about .74 ; you did get the memo that a lot of airlines are on fuel conservation programs, didn't you?

Fuel may be an issue for #6 as well. I usually don't mind getting vectored around for an extra 15 minutes, but think about this scenario:

Say you're heading to ORD (with the standard Ground Delay Program). You push back from the gate to wait for your EDCT on the taxiway. The EDCT gets pushed back an extra 30 minutes, then another 30, then another 30. You finally take off with maybe 150 lbs over Min Fuel. Then once in the air, you're getting vectored around so that you are doing 20 mile S-turns across your course....

 

[siucavflight]

#2... Pulling the power back for an extra .1 or .2 of pay used to drive me nuts! and still would. If you need the extra cash, just get there, lie on the times and take your chances...dont screw the pax.

Um, how are you going to lie? The OOOI page of the ACARS sends the times. Screw the pax, when they pay more than 50 bucks for a ticket they they will get the right to b!tch.

 

[RedGuy]

I never understood why pilots get mad about this one. We get paid by the hour! C'mon guys!

Some of use get paid by the mile.

Also to controllers why do you insist on putting those of us in faster twins behind jets? You'll vector us all over just to keep us behind a jet when within 10 miles or so of the airport I'm typically going to be 40 or more kts faster than most jets.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

I never understood why pilots get mad about this one. We get paid by the hour! C'mon guys!




Don't you mean YOU are paying to play by the hour?

 

[G2T]

1. Why do you always make me say what atis I have when receiving a clearance after I tell you which one I have on my initial call?

2. Why do you get upset with me when returning to your frequency after being given the wrong freq. for a handoff?

3. What exactly are you guys doing on the land line?

4. If you tell me to stand by, don't forget about me or get upset when I call again in a couple of minutes. We have things we have to do as well.

5. Don't give me a holding clearance for a fix that is 3 miles ahead and not on our original flight plan.

 

[A Squared]

1. Why do you always make me say what atis I have when receiving a clearance after I tell you which one I have on my initial call?

Have you ever, once in your entire flying career asked ATC to repeat an altitude? Heading? frequency? transponder code? verify your landing clearence?

Never, ever, not even once? Really? well you're perfect, go ahead and feel free to get pissy if ATC is less than perfect. It's your right.

For the rest of us who don't always get it right the first time, every time, maybe we can cut ATC a little slack when they don't catch everything we say.

 

[Flysher]

Don't you mean YOU are paying to play by the hour?

Owned.

 

[Piper877]

3. What exactly are you guys doing on the land line?

Calling other sectors, coordinating handoffs, talking to tower facilities granting release times, calling FSS for that guy who wonders if R-5206 is hot, talking to center about the guy whose flaps are stuck at 30 etc. etc. The fact is there used to be more controllers doing the landline stuff, now they're on the scopes, talking on the phone, talking to other controllers and such.

The number of planes in the sky have increased, yet the controller workforce has decreased as well as pay.

Basically, they're seeing the same trend we are minus the whipsaw. Contract terms put into effect without bargaining. Next time you're thinking about the paycut you were foced to take, remember the guy on the other end of the mic had the same thing happen. Give em a break. Especially if it's a weekend and the approach controller's trying to handle 6 guys who talk on the radio like they haven't ever done it before.

 

[JimG]

6. Don't get mad at us when we have to turn you 60 degrees for spacing. It's your airline that schedules 100 planes to land in ORD/EWR/wherever at the same time.

I don't fly professionally, nor do I burn kerosene, but I'm not a student pilot and I do my best to be as professional as the guy wearing the funny stripes on his shirt is.

And I'll go out of my way to make your job easier too.

But do some of you guys have to seek revenge by mocking us on the radio b/c you're busy and/or some guy in front of us pissed you off?

Las Vegas and Los Angeles basin controllers come to mind from past experiences.

 

[Big Duke Six]

In regards to point 3, I'll usually give you my mach number but then throw in the "What do you need?" as a friendly way to show my flexibilty. Of course, I realize you MAY change me, but I think most of us sense you guys on the ground are possibly hesitant to ask for a change in our speed and we are just trying to help you out by letting you know we can give you whatever you need.

Your point is taken however, so next time I'll just STFU.

 

[G2T]

Have you ever, once in your entire flying career asked ATC to repeat an altitude? Heading? frequency? transponder code? verify your landing clearence?

Never, ever, not even once? Really? well you're perfect, go ahead and feel free to get pissy if ATC is less than perfect. It's your right.

For the rest of us who don't always get it right the first time, every time, maybe we can cut ATC a little slack when they don't catch everything we say.

Hey, relax. The original post did a little venting so I did a little rant of my own. No disrespect meant, we all screw up, and I am not afraid to admit I screw up my fair share of the time. My point on the clearnce thing is not that we don't screw up, its just that I can do eight legs in a day dealing with wheels up and flow control, we get frustrated too. The two groups have to work together to get people to their destinations, but it doesn't mean EITHER of us understand EVERYTHING the other is doing.

 

[The_Russian]

Don't you mean YOU are paying to play by the hour?

Wrong. Get your facts straight son, then call me back.

 

[The_Russian]

Owned.

What are you, his little Umpa Lumpa assistant?

 

[siucavflight]

Owned.

What type of a post was that? What does that even mean?