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Some Owners Have Gripes too (And Sympathy for Crews)

netjetwife

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I don't know about jumping ship. They may well be relieved to see that lingering problems like labor unrest is finally getting addressed. That will bode well for their expectation that the company is getting their act together. They will also see that the pilots are paying more attention to mx issues and holding management accountable for taking care of the planes that owners see as a big investment. I should think they'd welcome that, as well.
 

Diesel

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Ummmm..not really.

Owners care about 3 things. Their investment, the schedule, and safety.

Honestly the percentages of owners that care about the pilots, or even the plight of the company (unless it impacts their 3 concerns) is slim to none.

Much like when the gas station attendant, or mc donalds worker gives you the sob story and you stand there and look interested. What you really are thinking is, "please don't spit in my food."
 

FR8DOG777

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good point

Ummmm..not really.

Owners care about 3 things. Their investment, the schedule, and safety.

Honestly the percentages of owners that care about the pilots, or even the plight of the company (unless it impacts their 3 concerns) is slim to none.

Much like when the gas station attendant, or mc donalds worker gives you the sob story and you stand there and look interested. What you really are thinking is, "please don't spit in my food."

I don't really have a direct influence on their investment but the other two items I have full control over. I will make sure that the plane the passengers receive will be the best maintained plane they can get from me. By doing that I can also assure them that they can throw their schedule out the window. It is no longer about the owner. It is about us the pilots. I hope their children are just as disappointed as mine this holiday season when daddy's jet doesn't show up to take them to Aspen for Christmas. When the owners get fed up enough they will call the manager. Just like at McDonald's when your order isn't correct and you can't get your money back you call the manager for a refund. When the refunds outweigh the cost of paying your employees a decent wage, that is when the company will cry game over and come to the table ready to sign off on our contract that we deserve. This game and every game is about money. I say wheel out the the gas trucks and just burn this place down so we can put FLOPS out of its misery. :uzi:
 

Diesel

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And Fr8ghtdog you hit the nail right on the head. You know where the real pressure comes from. Bravo sir bravo.

But there are that look from the outside (airline pilots or people that don't fly) that think we're hob knobbing with the rich folk. They think that we're drinking crystal and rapping with 50Cent. At the end of the steps though a successful flight is where they don't know my name and everything went smoothly.

We're no different than the plastic surgeon or the bently dealer. Except for the pay of course.
 

drseuss05

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Lastly, if management actually published what you guys make and send it to us, there would be owner outrage. I think my idea in my previous post of leaving it up to owners to determine if crews should get raises is a novel idea. We aren’t cheap and know that you guys have families and lives outside of a cockpit.


Well that being said, I'm sure tips are always appreciated. We always tip cab drivers, and I've been in quite a few scary cab rides where I felt my safety was not of the utmost importance to them. Oh, and I'll be sure to report those tips to the government. I wouldn't want the government to be cheated out of any of my hard earned money :) Oops, did I say that?
 

gutshotdraw

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Ummmm..not really.

Owners care about 3 things. Their investment, the schedule, and safety.

Honestly the percentages of owners that care about the pilots, or even the plight of the company (unless it impacts their 3 concerns) is slim to none.

Much like when the gas station attendant, or mc donalds worker gives you the sob story and you stand there and look interested. What you really are thinking is, "please don't spit in my food."

Ding! On the mark again Diesel. We're the hired help. Mostly, they just want us to shut up and push throttles.....
 

cezzna

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I nominate this thread for "best since contract ratification", this section of the forum has been dry lately.

I for one think Magoo is for real; his answers and explanations are. If he isn't, he's one hell of a mole!
 

cezzna

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Magoo brings up a good point about pilot pay being 2% of anual operating cost. If I ask for a 10% raise, I'll be laughed at or given dirty looks by my superiors. If the fetzer valve breaks and replacing it costs 10% of my pay, it will be replaced without batting an eyelash, even if it wasn't "in the budget". They'll consternate over pay for hours, but brush off an unforseen un-negotiable costs ( FUEL PRICES SKYROCKETING, MAINTENANCE, ETC.) like a gnat. Am I less important than a fuel price rising?
 

HSDriver

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Publishers

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The points brought up here are certainly valid. Being in charge of working with the owners in our operation, I can say that it is amazing how cost concious some of the owners are when it comes to crew cost. Nor being a fractional, they are billed for the crew as a separate item and I assure you that becomes a point of contention that does not exist where it is lumped in with the other costs.
A GIV operating 500 to 650 hours cost about $500k per year for flight crew. That same owner does not want to hire a permanent flight attendant nor even pay a $300 a day flight attendant fee. Is that rare? Not at all.
What Magoo complains about is really the fractional model. We hear this all the time. If you look at the big picture, the fractionals do a relatively good job of producing the product they are selling. The scheduling, chartering, and elimination of dead head are the toughest operatonal problem. Success in that area does not mean it remains personal.
We recently had a customer who was with some major management companies, and they felt the same way. The thing that is lost is the personal aspects and the person who is putting up all the money feels that he has lost control. It is the most difficult aspect for fractionals and large management companies to overcome.
 

Freight Dog

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A GIV operating 500 to 650 hours cost about $500k per year for flight crew. That same owner does not want to hire a permanent flight attendant nor even pay a $300 a day flight attendant fee.

OK, I gotta raise the B.S. flag here. How much do your G-IV crewmembers make annually?

I think the better question would be... how much do you pocket under the disguise of the "crew cost" ?
 

Fallingbrick

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OK, I gotta raise the B.S. flag here. How much do your G-IV crewmembers make annually?

I think the better question would be... how much do you pocket under the disguise of the "crew cost" ?

Freight Dog,

Who says that the “crew cost” doesn’t include the cost of training, hotels, etc? If you look at wages alone there are additional withholdings, insurance, taxes and so on. I’m not sure what most companies include in “crew cost” when they invoice the customer, but I’m sure a great deal of it contains these sorts of expenses. Now if I’m wrong and your GIV crews really see that kind of money publishers…where can I send a resume? :cool:
 

AZ Typed

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I think I have to raise the BS Flag on this entire thread. Isn't it hard to believe that an owner:

1) has the time / interest to find this board

2) has the time / interest to write the thead (which seems all to slanted towards pilots) - folks who fly on our jets typically HATE labor (most of them own companies which in which labor is a high cost)

This guy's profile he describes in his first post "we only like cold cuts and dunken donughts" - come on.

I don't mean to be the conspiritor - but this post is a flook from a pilot who WISHES an owner like this actually existed.

Give me a break!
 

netjetwife

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Not for me. But being the wife of a pilot and knowing how it feels to be accused of being other than I am gives me a different perspective.

As you noted, his message is supportive so why look a gift horse in the mouth? Not to call Magoo a horse, of course....:p
 

learflyer

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I think I have to raise the BS Flag on this entire thread. Isn't it hard to believe that an owner:

1) has the time / interest to find this board

2) has the time / interest to write the thead (which seems all to slanted towards pilots) - folks who fly on our jets typically HATE labor (most of them own companies which in which labor is a high cost)

This guy's profile he describes in his first post "we only like cold cuts and dunken donughts" - come on.

I don't mean to be the conspiritor - but this post is a flook from a pilot who WISHES an owner like this actually existed.

Give me a break!


There are plenty of owners that are easy and laid back, who don't want escargot, or shrimp at 0700. They are usually the ones who made there own money, and not inherited it.
 

Mike Jenvey

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There are plenty of owners that are easy and laid back, who don't want escargot, or shrimp at 0700. They are usually the ones who made their own money, and not inherited it.
Yep, quite a few of those over in Europe too - I could list quite a few who sound like Mr Magoo! There are even one or 2 who invite you for dinner if you get to stay over an extra day at their location!!
 

NJAowner

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Many times I have a roast beef sandwich or a caesar salad. The fact is, without an oven on my a/c, dover sole, veal milanese, and pasta dishes, taste like crap after sitting in the FBO refrigerator for hours. I do not fly out of TEB or Van Nuys where piping hot dishes are brought to the plane.

Keeo it simple and it tasts great. Plus I hate escargot. I do occasionally get a shrimp cocktail.

Fly safe and thanks.
 

netjetwife

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Magoo did mention that he flies with his children. Ordering simple food that Kids like makes perfect sense to parents.

Hello 'Owner. I thought you might chime in. I trust your family is well.
 

Diesel

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Owner the same goes for the shrimp cocktail. Cooled heated cooled heated. I'd be wary of it. Stick with safe stuff with mayo and condiments on the side so it doesn't get soggy.

Of course I'm sure NJW will be happy to send you a card or something if you get sick.
 
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