Solo Crash in Phoenix

[Jolly Roger]

...Any details on the crash last night in the Phoenix area?

 

[User546]

Just found this on AzCentral...

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0202planecrash02-ON.html

Wreckage near Buckeye may be missing training plane
Associated Press
Feb. 2, 2006 0805 AM

The wreckage of a small plane has been found in a remote desert area south of Buckeye and a sheriff official said it may be that of a missing Beechcraft Bonanza that disappeared Wednesday.

The wreckage was spotted by a Maricopa County sheriff's helicopter crew, who were searching for the overdue plane.

The missing plane belongs to Lufthansa. The German airline has a pilot training facility at Goodyear Airport.

Chagolla says Lufthansa called the sheriff's office Wednesday evening about 6:30 to report one of its small planes was overdue. Only the pilot was aboard.

The wreckage found about 12:30 a.m. Thursday. Chagolla says there were no sign of survivors.

It was decided to wait until daybreak for sheriff's crews to drive to the scene.

 

[schoolio]

My instructor told me that Lufthansa out of GYR had a Bonanza and a student that didn't return from a solo last night. He also said that the reason they can't verify the wreckage is because it's just a smoking hole...can't even tell it was an airplane. She probably spun it in, from what I'm told.

 

[ReportCanoa]

A Bonanza as a primary trainer? Wow. That is a lot of airplane, even if you're being trained by a school like that. Too sad...

 

[User546]

A Bonanza as a primary trainer? Wow.

I believe Mesa Air Development out at Gateway (IWA) does the exact same thing.

http://www.mesa-air.com/mpd/training_equip.asp

 

[SKC]

I believe Mesa Air Development out at Gateway (IWA) does the exact same thing.

http://www.mesa-air.com/mpd/training_equip.asp

As does Mesa's San Juan program in FMN. Bonanzas for primary, Barons for multi.

 

[DX Rick]

anyone have any info on this?

 

[User546]

Here's an update from the Goodyear newspaper today, although it doesn't really give any more info than what we already know.

http://www.westvalleyview.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=20655&TM=7889.758

Pilot killed in plane crash near Buckeye

The pilot of a small aircraft was killed in a crash Wednesday near Buckeye.

The National Transportation Safety Board, which investigates crashes involving civil aircraft, confirmed that the aircraft was a Beechcraft 33.

The investigation of the crash and a report may not be completed for several months, an NTSB spokesman in Washington, D.C., said.

The aircraft belonged to Airline Training Center Arizona Inc., which provides flight and instrument training for the German airline Lufthansa, airport spokeswoman Lexie Van Haren said. The operation is based at Phoenix Goodyear Airport, part of the Phoenix Airport Authority that also operates Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport.

The aircraft was reported missing at about 6:30 p.m., Van Haren said.

The wreckage was found at about 1 a.m. near the Buckeye Hills area, Sgt. Travis Anglin of the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office told several Valley radio stations.

The Beechcraft 33 has been in production for at least 45 years, although information on the age of the aircraft involved in the crash has not been released.

 

[schoolio]

Here's a link to another story with a picture...

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories/KTVKLNews20060202_missing-plane-found.62d147fa.html

 

[PacoPollo]

A Bonanza as a primary trainer? Wow. That is a lot of airplane, even if you're being trained by a school like that. Too sad...

Remember those guys go from a Bonanza to right seat of an A-340.

 

[LJDRVR]

Remember those guys go from a Bonanza to right seat of an A-340.

Um, No. They progress from the F33 to a B55 Baron. From there they recieve simulator and flight training in a Piper Cheyenne III. (In Germany) Then they are trained on their initial airframe. (Usually a Boeing 737) As usual Paco is full of it.

Those of you who think the 'mighty' Bonanza is a handfull of a primary trainer would do well to remember there was a time in the fifties when our primary military trainer was the 600hp T-6 Texan.

 

[filejw]

As long as they don't get into the right seat of a Crj we all should be OK ..LOL

 

[cooler07]

First off I'd like to offer my condolences to the family.

Also to set the record straight here, unless you've worked there within the last 5 years you don't know "JACK" about the Lufthansa flight training or its students:
1) All students receive 2 months ground school before they start training in the PA-28 (not BE-33).
2) Then they return to Germany for 5 months ground school before they return to the US for BE-33 training.
3) The BE-58's were phased out in 1997 and were replaced by PA-34's which were then phased out in 2001.
4) Spin training was phased out with the grounding of all T-34 Mentors in 1998.
5) Stall spin awareness training was greatly reduced after grounding of T-34's.
6) After completion of training in GYR students return to Germany for more ground, simulator and flight training in Piper Cheyenne.
7) Completion of training is followed by type rating in Airbus or Boeing.

As far as students going into the right seat of a CRJ, a set number do with Lufthansa Cityline (Regional) which operates CRJ's. The rest go to Airbus 320, Boeing 737 and 757 (Thomas Cook).

I trained students there for 6.5 years and have trained more than 150 students which are currently flying for that airline. In the past 25 years ATCA has not lost one Lufthansa student until now, not including the German Airforce flight training done at the same school.

It's my opinion that the most probable cause for this accident is the reduced training time and stall spin awareness training.

 

[filejw]

Sorry to set you off 07 the Crj reference was for all the people on this web site that seem to think a low time pilot can't fly as this is were this thread was starting to head.BA,Air France,Lufthansa and many other airlines have been training zero time pilots since the 60's or before with great success.
As for the stall spin training its the same all over.A bit sad really.Sounds like you may be close to this situation,sorry for your loss.JW

 

[mar]

This is a real shame

4) Spin training was phased out with the grounding of all T-34 Mentors in 1998.
5) Stall spin awareness training was greatly reduced after grounding of T-34's.

As I've often said, I think every professional pilot (ATP) should be required to complete a basic aerobatics course. Especially when you're at the controls of a turbo jet with mere hundreds of hours. It's just too much straight and level over the course of a career to not ever have an airplane upside down.

Not only that, but I think the training depts are finally realizing (after the AA A-300 accident [AA587?]) that simulators just don't have the fidelity to effectively train pilots for jet upsets.

With that I'll close with my sympathies to the pilot's family.

 

[mtrv]

As I've often said, I think every professional pilot (ATP) should be required to complete a basic aerobatics course. Especially when you're at the controls of a turbo jet with mere hundreds of hours. It's just too much straight and level over the course of a career to not ever have an airplane upside down.

The following link is a situation of using the opposite control movements all the way to the ground, in a stalled airliner, if it's actually what happened.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/19/news/venezuela.php

 

[Say Again Over]

Nice article but I have to disagree with the previous post referring to aerobatic training being a good tool in fighting a loss of control due to jet upset. I feel the best training would be not to get yourself in that scenario to begin with.

 

[User546]

Nice article but I have to disagree with the previous post referring to aerobatic training being a good tool in fighting a loss of control due to jet upset. I feel the best training would be not to get yourself in that scenario to begin with.

Any professionally trained pilot is traned to know find yourself in an upset situation.

BUT, once your there, you better have the experience or background knowledge to know what to do and how to handle the situation.

 

[Say Again Over]

What experience am I going to gain to recover a 90 tonne airbus, lol.

 

[mar]

The Pinnacle

How nice to have finally reached the point where there's nothing left to learn.

Fly safe.