Solo Crash in Phoenix

[LJDRVR]

Remember those guys go from a Bonanza to right seat of an A-340.

Um, No. They progress from the F33 to a B55 Baron. From there they recieve simulator and flight training in a Piper Cheyenne III. (In Germany) Then they are trained on their initial airframe. (Usually a Boeing 737) As usual Paco is full of it.

Those of you who think the 'mighty' Bonanza is a handfull of a primary trainer would do well to remember there was a time in the fifties when our primary military trainer was the 600hp T-6 Texan.

 

[filejw]

As long as they don't get into the right seat of a Crj we all should be OK ..LOL

 

[cooler07]

First off I'd like to offer my condolences to the family.

Also to set the record straight here, unless you've worked there within the last 5 years you don't know "JACK" about the Lufthansa flight training or its students:
1) All students receive 2 months ground school before they start training in the PA-28 (not BE-33).
2) Then they return to Germany for 5 months ground school before they return to the US for BE-33 training.
3) The BE-58's were phased out in 1997 and were replaced by PA-34's which were then phased out in 2001.
4) Spin training was phased out with the grounding of all T-34 Mentors in 1998.
5) Stall spin awareness training was greatly reduced after grounding of T-34's.
6) After completion of training in GYR students return to Germany for more ground, simulator and flight training in Piper Cheyenne.
7) Completion of training is followed by type rating in Airbus or Boeing.

As far as students going into the right seat of a CRJ, a set number do with Lufthansa Cityline (Regional) which operates CRJ's. The rest go to Airbus 320, Boeing 737 and 757 (Thomas Cook).

I trained students there for 6.5 years and have trained more than 150 students which are currently flying for that airline. In the past 25 years ATCA has not lost one Lufthansa student until now, not including the German Airforce flight training done at the same school.

It's my opinion that the most probable cause for this accident is the reduced training time and stall spin awareness training.

 

[filejw]

Sorry to set you off 07 the Crj reference was for all the people on this web site that seem to think a low time pilot can't fly as this is were this thread was starting to head.BA,Air France,Lufthansa and many other airlines have been training zero time pilots since the 60's or before with great success.
As for the stall spin training its the same all over.A bit sad really.Sounds like you may be close to this situation,sorry for your loss.JW

 

[mar]

This is a real shame

4) Spin training was phased out with the grounding of all T-34 Mentors in 1998.
5) Stall spin awareness training was greatly reduced after grounding of T-34's.

As I've often said, I think every professional pilot (ATP) should be required to complete a basic aerobatics course. Especially when you're at the controls of a turbo jet with mere hundreds of hours. It's just too much straight and level over the course of a career to not ever have an airplane upside down.

Not only that, but I think the training depts are finally realizing (after the AA A-300 accident [AA587?]) that simulators just don't have the fidelity to effectively train pilots for jet upsets.

With that I'll close with my sympathies to the pilot's family.

 

[mtrv]

As I've often said, I think every professional pilot (ATP) should be required to complete a basic aerobatics course. Especially when you're at the controls of a turbo jet with mere hundreds of hours. It's just too much straight and level over the course of a career to not ever have an airplane upside down.

The following link is a situation of using the opposite control movements all the way to the ground, in a stalled airliner, if it's actually what happened.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/19/news/venezuela.php

 

[Say Again Over]

Nice article but I have to disagree with the previous post referring to aerobatic training being a good tool in fighting a loss of control due to jet upset. I feel the best training would be not to get yourself in that scenario to begin with.

 

[User546]

Nice article but I have to disagree with the previous post referring to aerobatic training being a good tool in fighting a loss of control due to jet upset. I feel the best training would be not to get yourself in that scenario to begin with.

Any professionally trained pilot is traned to know find yourself in an upset situation.

BUT, once your there, you better have the experience or background knowledge to know what to do and how to handle the situation.

 

[Say Again Over]

What experience am I going to gain to recover a 90 tonne airbus, lol.

 

[mar]

The Pinnacle

How nice to have finally reached the point where there's nothing left to learn.

Fly safe.