So, who screwed up? Controller or Pilots?

[ACT700]

Check this out:


NTSB Identification: DCA06WA006
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of USAirways, Inc
Incident occurred Sunday, November 06, 2005 in London, United Kingdom
Aircraft: Boeing 767-200, registration: N653US
Injuries: UnavailableOn November 6, 2005, at 0745 local British time, the flight crew of a USAirways Boeing 767-200, registered in the United States as N653US,, failed to lower the landing gear until notified by the air traffic control tower to go around. The tower controller then observed the gear extend and amended his instructions to allow the aircraft to land. This is being investigated by the British Air Accidents Investigation branch as a serious incident.



Just curious, if anyone knows more about this. Was the gear not down, or was the controller watching footage of the Nike GV??!!

 

[av8er23]

I am not sure I totally understand what occured?

 

[indianboy7]

it was a gust of wind....it's always a gust of wind.....imp:

 

[VampyreGTX]

If you read it carefully, the gear was initially up. The ATC guy gave the command to go around due to the gear being retracted. Insted of going around, the crew continued the approach and lowered the gear. When ATC saw the gear extend, they changed the instructions from go around to cleared to land.

 

[TransMach]

British Controllers

Mates,

British controllers, like their U.S. Millitary counterparts respond to a landing aircraft's initial tower radio contact with "Roger, check gear down, wind XXXXX (applicable visibility/RVR)" ... they do not issue a landing clearance until the aircraft responds with gear position.

I wonder if the whole "To Do" is about the standard British communications procedures, not a crew failing a before landing checklist item, or rushing the arrival.

TransMach

 

[Junkflyer]

Foreign countries don't all respond the way US controllers do. The Russians will not give a landing clearance until you state"gear down, ready to land" even if you are descending through DH.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

um...how exactly would this be a controllers fault, he noticed the gear up, told the crew, told them to go around, the gear retracts, more then likely the 767 was still somewhat in a descent and the controller amended his instructions to land now the gear was down....I don't understand why this would be the controllers fault?

Foreign countries don't all respond the way US controllers do. The Russians will not give a landing clearance until you state"gear down, ready to land" even if you are descending through DH.

Thats because most of the rest of the world uses a prescribed phraseology and set of rules set forth by ICAO. We however use the 7110.65 prescribed by the FAA. Military will do check gear down, but we don't......Some of the military guys give me the check gear down asking me to check it for them, but i don't get suckerd in, i always look and make sure the gear is down, but never say your gear is down......"Your gear appears to be down" Then I'm off the hook. Thats what you will hear if you ever fly by an FAA tower with a gear problem and it looks down....they will never say your gear is down. If they do and your gear isn't locked....they are on the hook!

 

[labbats]

um...how exactly would this be a controllers fault, he noticed the gear up, told the crew, told them to go around, the gear retracts, more then likely the 767 was still somewhat in a descent and the controller amended his instructions to land now the gear was down....I don't understand why this would be the controllers fault?

Foreign countries don't all respond the way US controllers do. The Russians will not give a landing clearance until you state"gear down, ready to land" even if you are descending through DH.

Thats because most of the rest of the world uses a prescribed phraseology and set of rules set forth by ICAO. We however use the 7110.65 prescribed by the FAA. Military will do check gear down, but we don't......Some of the military guys give me the check gear down asking me to check it for them, but i don't get suckerd in, i always look and make sure the gear is down, but never say your gear is down......"Your gear appears to be down" Then I'm off the hook. Thats what you will hear if you ever fly by an FAA tower with a gear problem and it looks down....they will never say your gear is down. If they do and your gear isn't locked....they are on the hook!

It's always the controllers fault. Always.

 

[mar]

In theory

Thats because most of the rest of the world uses a prescribed phraseology and set of rules set forth by ICAO.

ICAO phraseology. That would be a treat. After flying around the northern hemisphere for the last year and half I've come to regard the American controllers as *the* most standardized.

Abroad you'll hear every frickin' variation you can think of...couple that with heavy accents, jammed freqs and wind noise from a loud cockpit and suddenly you might as well be NORDO.

Just my experience.

I say AGAIN: That's just MY EXPERIENCE!!