mother fokker
Member
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2002
- Posts
- 13
I agree with the aforementioned replies, and I absolutley agree with many of your opinions with current and past DB pension plans they are being deemed virtually worthless, with the market factors and legal help of corporation's accounting firms.
The tricky thing about current 401k plans, hence, why I use the analogy of "gambling in Vegas" is that I had a 401k at a commuter in the late 90's that grew astronomically in that market. Luckily, one of the few smart things that I've done, was to cash that revenue into a local housing market, which luckily for me grew. Had I stayed with that 401k and it's relevant investments it would be virtually worthless today. I know 401k's are traditionally based on long term gains, but what happens when you cash out at the same time everyone else does or you cash out when the market is down??? I.e. baby boom retirements, and all the intracies of the speculative market? When everyone else is cashing out, it will effect the price of your investment, hence ,lowering returns when you decide to cash in.
So to reiterate, my question? Why is there the mentality amongst profitable LCC pilot's that a stable pension is taboo? I know that a DB pension plan with legal loopholes the size of a garbage truck will soon be decimated. Why not set a precedent for the industry at a company that is profitable, and negotiate a pension plan that will hold merit down the road? Easier said than done I know. I know that labor unions have been decimated in the current political climate, but why can't profitable pilot groups stand up up to management and demand future secruity for a lifetime of work?
Looking at UAL and US air pensions that paid monthly and are being sucked dry, compared to Delta pilots the walked away with 50% lump sums and lost 50% percent as well. In the last case, I know they worked for these pensions on top of their 401ks. In that respect, the pension was much better than a stand alone 401K. Delta pilots that held out to the end, with the recent bankruptcy filings, will be on shakey ground and I wish them the best as well as all other retirees in similiar circumstances.
I don't have the answers, and would at least like to spark the debate, I hope, that pilots at profitable LCC's will at least consider why we are losing pensions in such a demanding profession???
What I read in a previous post is that Herb is a very smart businessman...Agreed!...Herb, believes that current DB plans won't work. That has been proven true. I'm a businessman, as well, I got into this industry to make money. I hope we all don't throw up our hands with the sad realization that "Herb said pensions need to go away." I'd rather take a shot of wild turkey myself...get pissed... stop looking like a deer in the headlights, and break the mold, and demand compensation that is beneficial for the pilot group...not Herb, Leo...etc???
The tricky thing about current 401k plans, hence, why I use the analogy of "gambling in Vegas" is that I had a 401k at a commuter in the late 90's that grew astronomically in that market. Luckily, one of the few smart things that I've done, was to cash that revenue into a local housing market, which luckily for me grew. Had I stayed with that 401k and it's relevant investments it would be virtually worthless today. I know 401k's are traditionally based on long term gains, but what happens when you cash out at the same time everyone else does or you cash out when the market is down??? I.e. baby boom retirements, and all the intracies of the speculative market? When everyone else is cashing out, it will effect the price of your investment, hence ,lowering returns when you decide to cash in.
So to reiterate, my question? Why is there the mentality amongst profitable LCC pilot's that a stable pension is taboo? I know that a DB pension plan with legal loopholes the size of a garbage truck will soon be decimated. Why not set a precedent for the industry at a company that is profitable, and negotiate a pension plan that will hold merit down the road? Easier said than done I know. I know that labor unions have been decimated in the current political climate, but why can't profitable pilot groups stand up up to management and demand future secruity for a lifetime of work?
Looking at UAL and US air pensions that paid monthly and are being sucked dry, compared to Delta pilots the walked away with 50% lump sums and lost 50% percent as well. In the last case, I know they worked for these pensions on top of their 401ks. In that respect, the pension was much better than a stand alone 401K. Delta pilots that held out to the end, with the recent bankruptcy filings, will be on shakey ground and I wish them the best as well as all other retirees in similiar circumstances.
I don't have the answers, and would at least like to spark the debate, I hope, that pilots at profitable LCC's will at least consider why we are losing pensions in such a demanding profession???
What I read in a previous post is that Herb is a very smart businessman...Agreed!...Herb, believes that current DB plans won't work. That has been proven true. I'm a businessman, as well, I got into this industry to make money. I hope we all don't throw up our hands with the sad realization that "Herb said pensions need to go away." I'd rather take a shot of wild turkey myself...get pissed... stop looking like a deer in the headlights, and break the mold, and demand compensation that is beneficial for the pilot group...not Herb, Leo...etc???
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