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So what is the New Skywest pay?

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Gandalf:

Actually I would be to differ: sometimes investing in intangibles pays off in the long term. Part of the cost of doing business is building trust and commitment and like any other cost, you can put a price tag on it; also like any other cost, it has benefits if fruitfully pursued. Ours over the past couple of years has failed to adequately invest in that area and is seeing the negative results for lack of real investment and resources.

Glug, Glug, Glug.....That kool-aid must be spiked pretty good!

Trust and commitment….That’s funny! Ok, how do we have “trust and commitment” with SAPA in place? SAPA can’t, by the very function of the system, provide that. The system is a “dummy” system, an illusion, a mirage. All of the meetings and emails mean nothing…JA and co. can chose not to do a damn thing SAPA wants.

The “intangibles” that are provided by managements are provided in order to motivate their employees to be more productive. Increased productivity = Increased PROFITS.

SGU DOESN’T need to improve on those issues as readily as the first year pay. JA and the boys need people to come thru the front door.

As all the kool-aid drinkers are repeatedly saying, SKYW has a lot of “intangibles” that when added up, put us over the top in compensation and attractiveness to prospective employees.

Think about it, if SKYW has one of the best “workplaces” with all of these “intangibles” that people are looking for, then why are people not walking in the front door. The answer is straight forward - compensation in that first year.

Once here, most of us stay a while, which means "they" are doing some things right to keep a good deal of us here for a while.

Regionals for most are stepping stones. Attrition is attrition. The people that stay, stay for various reasons (financial, lifestyle, second or third career guys that won’t leave due to age and ability to get a decent salary and lifestyle with a major, etc). But overall the workforce is increasingly becoming those from the instructing ranks, generally younger, and those coming from other regionals. This will means that there will always be attrition.

If we reach attrition numbers such as Mesa, then that is when you might see a revisit of the rates. But, we have normal to slightly higher than normal attrition, but not unusual rates. We are trying to expand and grow. Thats the need.

If you are looking in from the board room, you want to cut or contain costs while maintaining and hopefully increasing size and scope of the business. JA and the boys can’t get people in the door. That is the big problem. The rest of it is normal occupational forces that either makes someone stay or leave. You have an at will situation and a pay agreement already in place with the pilots lasting until 2010.

Why change all of that? Why add to your expenses? Just raise first year pay, get people in, and if SKYW is “the place to work” as SGU promotes then shouldn’t the rest take care of itself? Once you have that employee in the door, all of the “feel good” stuff will make that employee stay.

Also…if the some of the most senior leave, taking their high salaries with them, and SGU is able to backfill the slots with $19.25ers then it is better financially. The incentive to keep raising pay for everyone is NOT there. Having to compete for contracts with majors means that “they” need to run it lean and mean.

And remember, just because you have “feel good” feelings from management and you really think that they care about you….they really don’t. Their job, is to maintain their job by making profits for the shareholders. If that means that they have to have some programs and incentives to make you “feel” valued and important – then that’s what they will do – they are doing what smart business owners realize. By making their employees “feel” important and valued - they will be more productive = MORE PROFITS! It's NOT altruistic. Those "feel good" things have a purpose.

History lesson......"Enron employed around 22,000 people (McLean & Elkind, 2003) and was one of the world's leading electricity, natural gas, pulp and paper, and communications companies, with claimed revenues of $111 billion in 2000. Fortune named Enron "America's Most Innovative Company” for six consecutive years. It achieved infamy at the end of 2001, when it was revealed that its reported financial condition was sustained mostly by institutionalized, systematic, and creatively planned accounting fraud. Enron has since become a popular symbol of willful corporate fraud and corruption....

It was on the Fortune's "100 Best Companies to Work for in America" list in 2000, and had offices that were, in hindsight, stunning in their opulence. Enron was hailed by many, including labor and the workforce, as an overall great company, praised for its large long-term pensions, benefits for its workers and extremely effective management until its exposure in corporate fraud....

"And.......Arthur Andersen LLP, based in Chicago, was once one of the "Big Five" accounting firms (the other four are PricewaterhouseCoopers, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu, Ernst & Young and KPMG), performing auditing, tax, and consulting services for large corporations. In 2002 the firm voluntarily surrendered its licenses to practice as Certified Public Accountants in the U.S. pending the result of prosecution by the Department of Justice over the firm's handling of the auditing of Enron, the energy corporation, resulting in the loss of 85,000 jobs

…Andersen, who headed the firm until his death in 1947, was a zealous supporter of high standards in the accounting industry. A stickler for honesty, he argued that accountants' responsibility was to investors, not their clients...

....For many years, Andersen's motto was "Think straight, talk straight."....

....Andersen(the company) also led the way in a number of areas of accounting standards. …

Predictably, Andersen(the company) struggled to balance the need to maintain its faithfulness to accounting standards with its clients' desire to maximise profits, particularly in the era of quarterly earnings reports. Andersen has been alleged to have been involved in the fraudulent accounting and auditing of Sunbeam Products, Waste Management, Inc., Asia Pulp and Paper, and the Baptist Foundation of Arizona, WorldCom, as well as the infamous Enron case, among others....

.....For a time, WorldCom (WCOM) was the United States' second largest long distance phone company (AT&T was the largest). WorldCom grew largely by acquiring other telecommunications companies, most notably MCI Communications. …

....On July 21, 2002, WorldCom filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in the largest such filing in United States history....

(Wikipedia)
 
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Go F*ck yourself FishandFly. Some of us voted yes and are still committed to improving our profession. You are an idiot.

That's not very saint georgian of you. I am not saying that you suck, just that the majority of your pilot group chose to degrade our profession instead of join the pack who is attempting to move things forward.
 
Looks to me like Skywests pilot group is the only one that IS moving forward. And we do it without giving up 2% of our pay.

And your definition of forward is..................?

Getting closer and closer to the bottom.....

1% raise over 4 years, a joke of an override for the 70/90 that still has left us the laughing stock, no increase for the bro, no COLA...........

An email that we just received that said oh, yeah by the way, We missed the bro pilots on the last pay package, OMG. Oh yeah, by the way, 1st year pay DOES suck, OMG. Oh yeah by the way, Our pay on the jet compared to most others DOES suck, OMG. Oh, yeah, by the way We haven't seen any movement on reserve issues, transparency issues, etc. By the way, long call reserve is NOT 12 hours! It's 2 hours, OMG....How in the world did all of this happen? Gasp..............

Forward moving.......Undercutting just about every other regional for the sake of upgrades....

Good thing we have been working on these issues for 3+ years.

We are just leading the pack with a representative group that is useless.

I am sure that industry leading SWA pilots are looking at our "FORWARD" motion and saying, "you know what.....maybe we should get rid of that pesky union....I really think management won't sell us out for even 1 penny of profit....It's working for them....."
 
Looks to me like Skywests pilot group is the only one that IS moving forward. And we do it without giving up 2% of our pay.



What? Are you kidding?

Your company makes a TON of money and yet your pilot group gets whatever the minimum amount the company thinks you will be content with.

The ONLY reason that SKYW pays you more than $5 bucks an hour is because the union carriers have continued to raise the bar, and your company bumped up your package to be "competitive".

Why doesn't your pilot group take ownership of some of the success that SKYW has had and push for increases in regional pilot pay and benefits?
 
An email that we just received that said oh, yeah by the way, We missed the bro pilots on the last pay package, OMG. Oh yeah, by the way, 1st year pay DOES suck, OMG. Oh yeah by the way, Our pay on the jet compared to most others DOES suck, OMG. Oh, yeah, by the way We haven't seen any movement on reserve issues, transparency issues, etc. By the way, long call reserve is NOT 12 hours! It's 2 hours, OMG....How in the world did all of this happen? Gasp..............

This reminds me of the SNL Michael Vick skit. Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdE4FIYSmk8

SAPA rolled over? Really? You mean they're an instrument of management? Really? Wow!
 
This reminds me of the SNL Michael Vick skit. Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdE4FIYSmk8

SAPA rolled over? Really? You mean they're an instrument of management? Really? Wow!

Damn that's funny! Funniest thing about it is that SkyTool, SKYWRJTOOL, and the other kool-aid slurpers actually believe that JA is looking out for them. The humor and the point of the post and video is lost on them -

They will see that and go....huh.....I don't get it......

.....Is there any more Kool-Aid?
 
Gandalf:

I think you need to reread my post---all the way through this time.
 
Gandalf:

I think you need to reread my post---all the way through this time; I pretty much stopped on yours after your Kool-Aid comment that shows you didn't read it. As for the theory behind the post, it's solid.
 
That's not very saint georgian of you. I am not saying that you suck, just that the majority of your pilot group chose to degrade our profession instead of join the pack who is attempting to move things forward.

"degrade our profession"
Spoken like a true idiot. It looks like Kool-Aid comes in many flavors. Keep sipping sheep.


mmmmmm.... ALPA flavor....

perhaps when you have more than a "few" hours of experience in a "few" airplanes with a "few" operators, you will see the light. Until then, enjoy being a pawn.
 
Its funny to me...

All these people calling SkyWest pilots Kool Aid drinkers. It is hilarious.

You all try to validate your points by saying things like "SkyWest is making lots of money", "Your happy pilot group is oblivious", "You don't see enough of the profits", "SkyWest is losing many Captains to other carriers", etc...

I agree with two of those points. I wish the pilots did see more of the profits. In EVERY airline.
...It just shows more clearly in one of the only airlines bringing in the cash and not teetering on two quarters of positive movement into the black.

SkyWest is doing well as an airline... Is this bad? What is ALPA's or any other "haters" goal for an airline. To NOT do well financially? Oh... If a company can do it without ALPA then ALPA can't dip their hand in the profit. ALPA is becoming obselete, but fortunately the goals of career pilots are not. This angers people riding the sinking ship.

Rather than accept the fact that the industry is on an upswing and be happy that pay, work rules, and all the other "perks" that ALPA and the other carriers gave up years ago are finally coming back and consider it a GOOD thing, you try to bad mouth the airlines that are doing it! It shows real ignorance to bad mouth a carrier with a majority of happy pilots, growing networks, good work rules and decent morale... when that is what you are supposed to be ADVOCATING!

And SkyWest pilots leaving to other carriers is bad, or proof of something?... Its proof of no more than SkyWest's position in the industry (a REGIONAL CARRIER!!). Any pilot with career ambitions should be happy that there is finally a movement back to the legacies and other major carriers. Movement from an "express" carrier to mainline should be praised, not twisted into a bad thing. Get some friggin' ambition if you are mad that SkyWest and other regional airlines should not be retirement options and base their business models on turn over. Every single one does... Pinnacle, ASA, Comair, SkyWest, Colgan, Mesa, TSA, Republic... ALL OF THEM!

Of course SkyWest has lots of people leaving... They have lots of people PERIOD. Big airline means lots of coming and going.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?! Other than you may not be happy with YOUR choice. Envy is a bad thing. I guess I should expect it from a majority of Shiny Jet Syndrome s### talkers. But, it still saddens me that people can be so hypocritical and ignorant. I'm envious of the Southwest captain's paycheck and quality of life... But you don't see me talking trash. I just keep raising my standards and working towards them. For ALL of us!!

I personally am glad to see carriers like Southwest, SkyWest, Frontier, Republic (believe it or not an ALPA carrier!!) who have good leadership and a good workforce being able to grow while keeping their people relatively happy.

What is the problem? An exciting time in the industry is coming. Lots of opportunities for pilots. We need to make the most of them, not be envious and critical about those that have what we want.

GET OVER IT!! AND STOP BEING STUPID!!

... an edit...

The pay does need to increase at SkyWest. As it does at many airlines.
First year at SkyWest is among the worst in the industry. Starting there would be only a start.

But a month after a union drive being enough time to up the payscale? It would be nice if that could happen, but also unrealistic. Personally, I am looking 5-6 months out for progress at SkyWest before I start questioning things.

Things need get much better in LOTS of areas. At SkyWest and every other airline. No pilot denies this. There are just varied ideas about it. Some like to blame others for the position they are in. Interesting...
 
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Its funny to me...

All these people calling SkyWest pilots Kool Aid drinkers. It is hilarious.

You all try to validate your points by saying things like "SkyWest is making lots of money", "Your happy pilot group is oblivious", "You don't see enough of the profits", "SkyWest is losing many Captains to other carriers", etc...

I agree with two of those points. I wish the pilots did see more of the profits. In EVERY airline.
...It just shows more clearly in one of the only airlines bringing in the cash and not teetering on two quarters of positive movement into the black.

SkyWest is doing well as an airline... Is this bad? What is ALPA's or any other "haters" goal for an airline. To NOT do well financially? Oh... If a company can do it without ALPA then ALPA can't dip their hand in the profit. ALPA is becoming obselete, but fortunately the goals of career pilots are not. This angers people riding the sinking ship.

Rather than accept the fact that the industry is on an upswing and be happy that pay, work rules, and all the other "perks" that ALPA and the other carriers gave up years ago are finally coming back and consider it a GOOD thing, you try to bad mouth the airlines that are doing it! It shows real ignorance to bad mouth a carrier with a majority of happy pilots, growing networks, good work rules and decent morale... when that is what you are supposed to be ADVOCATING!

And SkyWest pilots leaving to other carriers is bad, or proof of something?... Its proof of no more than SkyWest's position in the industry (a REGIONAL CARRIER!!). Any pilot with career ambitions should be happy that there is finally a movement back to the legacies and other major carriers. Movement from an "express" carrier to mainline should be praised, not twisted into a bad thing. Get some friggin' ambition if you are mad that SkyWest and other regional airlines should not be retirement options and base their business models on turn over. Every single one does... Pinnacle, ASA, Comair, SkyWest, Colgan, Mesa, TSA, Republic... ALL OF THEM!

Of course SkyWest has lots of people leaving... They have lots of people PERIOD. Big airline means lots of coming and going.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?! Other than you may not be happy with YOUR choice. Envy is a bad thing. I guess I should expect it from a majority of Shiny Jet Syndrome s### talkers. But, it still saddens me that people can be so hypocritical and ignorant. I'm envious of the Southwest captain's paycheck and quality of life... But you don't see me talking trash. I just keep raising my standards and working towards them. For ALL of us!!

I personally am glad to see carriers like Southwest, SkyWest, Frontier, Republic (believe it or not an ALPA carrier!!) who have good leadership and a good workforce being able to grow while keeping their people relatively happy.

What is the problem? An exciting time in the industry is coming. Lots of opportunities for pilots. We need to make the most of them, not be envious and critical about those that have what we want.

GET OVER IT!! AND STOP BEING STUPID!!

... an edit...

The pay does need to increase at SkyWest. As it does at many airlines.
First year at SkyWest is among the worst in the industry. Starting there would be only a start.

But a month after a union drive being enough time to up the payscale? It would be nice if that could happen, but also unrealistic. Personally, I am looking 5-6 months out for progress at SkyWest before I start questioning things.

Things need get much better in LOTS of areas. At SkyWest and every other airline. No pilot denies this. There are just varied ideas about it. Some like to blame others for the position they are in. Interesting...

*yawn* More Skywest pilots' "buyers remorse".
 
Its funny to me...

All these people calling SkyWest pilots Kool Aid drinkers. It is hilarious.

You all try to validate your points by saying things like "SkyWest is making lots of money", "Your happy pilot group is oblivious", "You don't see enough of the profits", "SkyWest is losing many Captains to other carriers", etc...

I agree with two of those points. I wish the pilots did see more of the profits. In EVERY airline.
...It just shows more clearly in one of the only airlines bringing in the cash and not teetering on two quarters of positive movement into the black.

SkyWest is doing well as an airline... Is this bad? What is ALPA's or any other "haters" goal for an airline. To NOT do well financially? Oh... If a company can do it without ALPA then ALPA can't dip their hand in the profit. ALPA is becoming obselete, but fortunately the goals of career pilots are not. This angers people riding the sinking ship.

Rather than accept the fact that the industry is on an upswing and be happy that pay, work rules, and all the other "perks" that ALPA and the other carriers gave up years ago are finally coming back and consider it a GOOD thing, you try to bad mouth the airlines that are doing it! It shows real ignorance to bad mouth a carrier with a majority of happy pilots, growing networks, good work rules and decent morale... when that is what you are supposed to be ADVOCATING!

And SkyWest pilots leaving to other carriers is bad, or proof of something?... Its proof of no more than SkyWest's position in the industry (a REGIONAL CARRIER!!). Any pilot with career ambitions should be happy that there is finally a movement back to the legacies and other major carriers. Movement from an "express" carrier to mainline should be praised, not twisted into a bad thing. Get some friggin' ambition if you are mad that SkyWest and other regional airlines should not be retirement options and base their business models on turn over. Every single one does... Pinnacle, ASA, Comair, SkyWest, Colgan, Mesa, TSA, Republic... ALL OF THEM!

Of course SkyWest has lots of people leaving... They have lots of people PERIOD. Big airline means lots of coming and going.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?! Other than you may not be happy with YOUR choice. Envy is a bad thing. I guess I should expect it from a majority of Shiny Jet Syndrome s### talkers. But, it still saddens me that people can be so hypocritical and ignorant. I'm envious of the Southwest captain's paycheck and quality of life... But you don't see me talking trash. I just keep raising my standards and working towards them. For ALL of us!!

I personally am glad to see carriers like Southwest, SkyWest, Frontier, Republic (believe it or not an ALPA carrier!!) who have good leadership and a good workforce being able to grow while keeping their people relatively happy.

What is the problem? An exciting time in the industry is coming. Lots of opportunities for pilots. We need to make the most of them, not be envious and critical about those that have what we want.

GET OVER IT!! AND STOP BEING STUPID!!

... an edit...

The pay does need to increase at SkyWest. As it does at many airlines.
First year at SkyWest is among the worst in the industry. Starting there would be only a start.

But a month after a union drive being enough time to up the payscale? It would be nice if that could happen, but also unrealistic. Personally, I am looking 5-6 months out for progress at SkyWest before I start questioning things.

Things need get much better in LOTS of areas. At SkyWest and every other airline. No pilot denies this. There are just varied ideas about it. Some like to blame others for the position they are in. Interesting...




"A month after a union drive being enough time to up the payscale?"


Hey smart guy...they had more than enough time to up the payscale before the union drive ever got started!!!!! There was never a reason or need to stop paying us COLA either!! Time to step away from your personal kool-aid dispenser!
 
btrthn5n5,

the zealots have not, do not, nor will they ever get it. there is no worthwhile discussion to be had with them. they honest to goodness would rather we were more like Comair. their tired old rants that are sure to chime in will serve to prove that to you even more. get to it boys!

nothing new here.
 
Once again, the biggest downward pressure on ASA 700 rates came from Mesa, PCL, Mesaba, and Mainline RJ rates at USAir, Delta, and NWA..... all ALPA carriers.....

After that comes the CMR and Skywest rates...... most of the downward pressure actually came from ALPA carriers, not Skywest......

Maybe the ALPA cheerleaders should spend more time trying to get the ALPA house in order before they go and chastise others for doing the same thing as the ALPA carriers are doing.....

How do some of you actually blame this whole mess on the Skywest pilots with a straight face?...
 
Good job btrthn5n5, you are now paired up with Joe Merchant and Skynation. This thread has potential now.

USA today had a full page article showing all the pilot groups that disagree with your bozo "we don't want to pay 2%" antics.

Whether you care to view the issue with clarity or not, you guys are flat out wrong and the industry is hurt by your actions.
 
Whether you care to view the issue with clarity or not, you guys are flat out wrong and the industry is hurt by your actions.

The industry is hurt by us bidding for flying within a brand.... we are all to blame for that, and ALPA has had a huge hand in creating this problem.....

The industry is hurt by us allowing puppy farms to turn out 121 pilots in 11 months..... ALPA hasn't done anything to put a stop to that.....

The industry is hurt by our inability to change employers and not go back to square one.... something other professions don't have to do.... ALPA has ignored this problem also...

The industry is hurt by all of us.... and by ALPA's total failure in these areas...... To blame the Skywest pilots shows that you aren't really ready to address the real causes..... The Skywest pilots aren't the problem..... Look in the mirror if you want to find the problem......
 

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