So what are United's new proposed rates?

[UAL-GSO]

I don't want unlimited outsourcing I simply want realism and a nice raise with some retro. If we have to keep a few 70 seaters with strict limits then so be it.

In other words f**k the junior pilots and give me my money. Classy.


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[minrest]

Delta, by contrast to what is being offered to us, received guaranteed scope protections PLUS a gain of 88 B717s. DAL vs UAL is an apples to oranges comparison. Be leery of anyone, union or management, who make that "well, that's what DAL has" argument..

How can you make a comparison between DAL scope and the UAL aip scope when you don't even know what has been agreed too?

 

[aeolian]

Don't need to look at it. It won't be industry leading in every aspect. Pay rates, work rules, retirement. It won't tighten scope. It won't contain 100% retro. I want every single penny those MF's have stolen from me over the past years.

"NO" vote.
FUPM strong as ever here!

when you hate your enemy it clouds your judgement

 

[HelloNewman]

In other words f**k the junior pilots and give me my money. Classy.


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I am a junior pilot but I also see the realities. Now had Continental been able to stay a seperate company then yes we could have easily kept our 50 seat scope. In case you haven't noticed there are already 70 seaters carrying passengers in UAL AND CAL hubs. Never forget the cardinal rule in this business, always leave yourself with outs. I was furloughed for a while and I learned this the hard way. You always need outs because you never know when you will get furloughed or lose your medical. We might as well get the money because sitting here thumping our chests about 50 seat only scope is getting us NOWHERE and is nothing more than a pipe dream. Always have a plan b, I know I do.

 

[Chairman]

Tell that to the 1,437 UAL pilots who were furloughed simply because their union felt 70-seaters would not harm them. They, and every pilot who got pushed down in seniority, were hosed because their union negotiators are so incompetent. 70-seaters replaced 737-500 flying. The A318, 319, and 737-700 will be the next to go if this scope is accepted.

The 70 seater has been around since 2003. 1437 were furloughed when the company parked the 737 fleet to make the merger work with CAL and get by the DOJ. I agree scope should not be relaxed but that is not what put us on the street.

 

[Flopgut]

1437 were furloughed when the company parked the 737 fleet to make the merger work with CAL and get by the DOJ.

Uh, not quite. There was almost no overlap between these companies even with your 737s. I realize you want to lash out at somebody, but CAL didn't do this to you. Your opportunity to get pissed was when your MC unilaterally signed off on a 70 seat airplane side letter. But hey, at least he saved his A fund... Oh wait, he lost that too.

 

[Chairman]

Uh, not quite. There was almost no overlap between these companies even with your 737s. I realize you want to lash out at somebody, but CAL didn't do this to you. Your opportunity to get pissed was when your MC unilaterally signed off on a 70 seat airplane side letter. But hey, at least he saved his A fund... Oh wait, he lost that too.

Not mad at CAL at all, I have lots of friends over there. Lets talk facts.

Spring 2008 UAL,CAL announce Merger talks.

Summer 2008 Merger called off CAL to come into Star Alliance.

Fall 2008 UAL begins to furlough and furloughs 10 times that of any other carrier. Delta which has more and larger RJs furloughs none.

May 2010 Merger announced.

Although there might not have been much merger over lap UAL/CAL did have to divest slots in some markets again to get around DOJ approval.

Glen Tilton wanted nothing more than to merge the Airline and he did what ever it took to do it. Not sure how UAL could not make money on paid for 737's when no other airline was parking that number of aircraft.

 

[Flopgut]

Although there might not have been much merger over lap UAL/CAL did have to divest slots in some markets again to get around DOJ approval.

Glen Tilton wanted nothing more than to merge the Airline and he did what ever it took to do it. Not sure how UAL could not make money on paid for 737's when no other airline was parking that number of aircraft.

The combined airline had to give Southwest 6 slots at Newark. That's it.

When you have to mortgage spare parts inventory at 17% just to have the money to operate for a few months, there is nothing to do but shrink...

I'm really not interested in a CAL vs UAL discussion (I do want the facts out there), but what I don't understand is why the senior UAL pilots have been given a free pass by the junior UAL pilots? They threw you under the bus. Now they tell you to blame the merger, instead of them, and you're just too happy to do it...

 

[densoo]

In other words f**k the junior pilots and give me my money.

No medical insurance for new-hires, c-scale for 5 years, no pension, FAR reserve rules. Yea, welcome to CAL.

 

[eaglesview]

The combined airline had to give Southwest 6 slots at Newark. That's it.

When you have to mortgage spare parts inventory at 17% just to have the money to operate for a few months, there is nothing to do but shrink...

I'm really not interested in a CAL vs UAL discussion (I do want the facts out there), but what I don't understand is why the senior UAL pilots have been given a free pass by the junior UAL pilots? They threw you under the bus. Now they tell you to blame the merger, instead of them, and you're just too happy to do it...

This is going to be a fun SLI negotiation. CAL side..."we saved them they were going down....UAL side.....you don't bring anything but narrowboidies to the table.......CAL side we were growing and had 787's coming.....UAL side ,,,,we were screwed to make this whole rediculous merger happen.......BOTH sides...I wish it would have never happened. Can't wait whew life is good. But at least I will be getting a shiney new CO uniform. Whole thing sucks

 

[Chairman]

This is going to be a fun SLI negotiation. CAL side..."we saved them they were going down....UAL side.....you don't bring anything but narrowboidies to the table.......CAL side we were growing and had 787's coming.....UAL side ,,,,we were screwed to make this whole rediculous merger happen.......BOTH sides...I wish it would have never happened. Can't wait whew life is good. But at least I will be getting a shiney new CO uniform. Whole thing sucks

Most Truth Yet!

 

[Flopgut]

BOTH sides...I wish it would have never happened. Can't wait whew life is good.

"Cant wait til life is good" That's what you meant, right? Doubt that happens. I think we'll be right back in bk.

But, if there is a chance, how is it going to happen? Do we act like CAL pilots? Or UAL? CAL pilots froze the A plan and hung on to scope. Senior UAL pilots tried to hang on to all their A fund and completely betrayed their junior half. That's the difference.

Eaglesview: I realize you couldn't possibly have more contempt for every single CAL pilot... But, are you going to continue to let 570 leaders take everything? Do anything they want?

 

[densoo]

Delta which has more and larger RJs furloughs none.

Didn't hurt that every pilot over 55 had taken early retirement in order to capture their pension before DAL went BK.

 

[fam62c]

So is anybody ever going to actually get to see this TA?

 

[eaglesview]

"Cant wait til life is good" That's what you meant, right? Doubt that happens. I think we'll be right back in bk.

But, if there is a chance, how is it going to happen? Do we act like CAL pilots? Or UAL? CAL pilots froze the A plan and hung on to scope. Senior UAL pilots tried to hang on to all their A fund and completely betrayed their junior half. That's the difference.

Eaglesview: I realize you couldn't possibly have more contempt for every single CAL pilot... But, are you going to continue to let 570 leaders take everything? Do anything they want?

No “can’t wait till life is,” good was pure sarcasm.
Do we act like CAL pilots??? Not sure what you mean there unless you simply focusing on you scope and retirement. Both of which CAL did better on. Of course the flip side is CAL pilots gave everything else away. Ask one or two of your reserve pilots how they are doing. The CAL contract was a joke, just call it FAR’s. I do not feel betrayed by the senior pilots. WE as a pilot group voted for each contract we have. WE the United pilots were faced with being the first carrier to go through the post 9/11 BK. Other carriers faired better as a result. As for the 70 seaters we were betrayed by one man with one stroke of the pen. No vote occurred there. That was a major screw up no doubt. Of couse one could ask “where was our union”….absent as usual. I guess they were busy forgiving all the CO pilots that had gone to the dark side.
All this being said I hold no contempt for the CO pilots. I hold lots for what is now OUR management team. I have never seen an operation run so poorly. It, for the first time, is embarrassing to come to work. The CO PSS (shares) is a joke. Maintenance in IAH for the airbus is a joke. The mechanics spend the whole time saying” it aint a Boeing.” We now carry all kinds of differed items out of there. Whoever is coming up with these changes we are going thru has obviously never stepped foot in am Airbus, they make no sense. I am sure the CO side is bitching about the same sort of stuff. The merger sucks.
Oh well we are stuck with it now. Someday we will cross paths and we can have a drink and hash it all out. You’ll recognize me as I will be the guy wearing the CO Uniform, flying the airplanes with the CO paint job, using CO procedures wearing the United wings.