So U wanna fly UPS

[Bladerunner]

Well said Land Green, I admire your words and we share the same sentiments towards our "Dream Job"....Hope to see you here soon

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

It's good to see some contrition on the part of Bladerunner, his original post came across as very condescending. Such an attitude would certainly give me pause about spending a trip with him when he finally makes captain!

 

[sleepy]

Only 3 years as a FE, that doesn't sound too bad. I had an instructor a while back that was an FE for 15 of his 25 years at TWA (with 4 furloughs to boot).

 

[Clyde]

I'm glad you agree with me...... the UPS payrate is PATHETIC. First off without even getting into contract specifics... we can simply take your illustrious example to make MY point.

In your example, you take 8 year UPS Captain pay with a 81 hour guarantee, and compare that to 8 year DL Captain pay with a 65 hour guarantee AFTER a 32.5 % paycut, and the difference is LESS than $200!!

Yeah... we both agree on this..... that IS PATHETIC!

Les Paul

After trying hard not to post on here, I had to chime in. My intent is not to start a flame war here, but rather to just point out the obvious.

According to your above quote, you are saying that the UPS payrate is pathetic. Given, under the current DAL contract, their pilots are making more per hour than we are here at UPS.

However, what do you have to say if we were to compare balance sheets and profit/loss statements on here? If we were to compare the financial health of DAL to the financial health of UPS, DAL's financial health is PATHETIC! The biggest topic discussed on this website about DAL (besides the pay rate) is them teetering on the brink of filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. I don't care how much an employer is paying in hourly wages, the threat of filing Chapter 11 is not a good thing for the employees.

The wages may be lower over here at UPS (at least for now), but we score very high in the longevity and stability categories. So, the next time you view the salary portion of an airline, please also look at the financial health as well.

 

[Clyde]

Only 3 years as a FE, that doesn't sound too bad. I had an instructor a while back that was an FE for 15 of his 25 years at TWA (with 4 furloughs to boot).

I was an FE for two years. (Stint as an FO between them before being displaced) The job was actually kind of fun, and I enjoyed it. On the 747, once the airplane was airborne the hardest part of the job was not burning the food while crossing the ocean.

 

[Les Paul]

According to your above quote, you are saying that the UPS payrate is pathetic. Given, under the current DAL contract, their pilots are making more per hour than we are here at UPS.
The wages may be lower over here at UPS (at least for now), but we score very high in the longevity and stability categories. So, the next time you view the salary portion of an airline, please also look at the financial health as well.

I agree with you based on YOUR post... however it strays from my original reply to this thread. Please show me where I mention ANYTHING about company financial health.

My original reply was to the person defending the original poster who started this thread. In my reply I asserted that the UPS payrates are pathetic. Thanks to the "eager beaver" fact finding reply of Boilerup, he helped me substantiate that fact, (though I don't believe that was his intent). Facts are facts..period.

BTW - Speaking of stability (since YOU bring this up), despite past AND current industry woes, I have enjoyed unparalled financial reward and security from the Airline industry for many years, so your little jab at me falls short.

Just like you.... just pointing out the obvious....

Les Paul

 

[BoilerUP]

I think some missed the sarcasm in my earlier post. If any of my data was wrong, its because I got it off www.airlinepilotpay.com, which incidentally is run by a UPS pilot. Go figure.

I too think UPS pilots are underpaid, given the profitability and growth of their company. That being said, when compared to *current* market rates, I'd say they are pretty dang competitive. Along the lines of what Clyde said, it doesn't matter if you are making $400/hr if your company is threatening Ch. 11 or furloughs.

I hope that one day soon, I can fly the big brown airplanes and dream of making the big green bucks flying for a "real airline"

 

[JethroF15]

... But the absolute bottom line is UPS is the most profitable Airline in the business. They far exceed the Purple People Eaters in Memphis. ...
CW
A300 Capt.

Not exactly the facts... UPS is the most profitable trucking company in the world. If you want to compare airlines then better retract the "They far exceed the Purple People Eaters in Memphis." statement.

Just setting the record straight

 

[Clyde]

I agree with you based on YOUR post... however it strays from my original reply to this thread. Please show me where I mention ANYTHING about company financial health.

My original reply was to the person defending the original poster who started this thread. In my reply I asserted that the UPS payrates are pathetic. Thanks to the "eager beaver" fact finding reply of Boilerup, he helped me substantiate that fact, (though I don't believe that was his intent). Facts are facts..period.

BTW - Speaking of stability (since YOU bring this up), despite past AND current industry woes, I have enjoyed unparalled financial reward and security from the Airline industry for many years, so your little jab at me falls short.

Just like you.... just pointing out the obvious....

Les Paul

Before I respond, let me re-post my original post in it's entirity. Not the edited version of what you quoted.

After trying hard not to post on here, I had to chime in. My intent is not to start a flame war here, but rather to just point out the obvious.

According to your above quote, you are saying that the UPS payrate is pathetic. Given, under the current DAL contract, their pilots are making more per hour than we are here at UPS.

However, what do you have to say if we were to compare balance sheets and profit/loss statements on here? If we were to compare the financial health of DAL to the financial health of UPS, DAL's financial health is PATHETIC! The biggest topic discussed on this website about DAL (besides the pay rate) is them teetering on the brink of filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. I don't care how much an employer is paying in hourly wages, the threat of filing Chapter 11 is not a good thing for the employees.

The wages may be lower over here at UPS (at least for now), but we score very high in the longevity and stability categories. So, the next time you view the salary portion of an airline, please also look at the financial health as well.

First of all, you didn't mention anything about financial health. I DID. Your post was simply pointing out how you think our payscales are pathetic, and you have a right to your opinion. I was simply pointing out the fact that even though our pay rates are not the highest in the industry, our financial performance is very solid, very sound, and very strong. Again, you're absolutely correct, you didn't bring up anything about company financial health, BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE. That was my point.

You are quoted as saying "Facts are facts..period." I will agree with you on this too. Facts are facts. FACT: The UPS pilot payscale is quite low when compared to a lot of other scales in the industry. FACT: As a pilot group, we would like to raise that wage. FACT: There is less stress paying the bills each month when the financial health of your company is not currently in question. FACT: UPS has been around for almost 100 years, has survived 2 world wars, a depression, numerous recessions, and is constantly reinventing itself. FACT: UPS pilots have never been asked to take PAY CONCESSIONS (that's the opposite of a raise). FACT: Even though my pay is less here than my counteparts at DAL, I still have no problem surving on a little over $100K per year, and I look forward to that wage going UP.

Do you see my point now? You were very quick to point out one thing, which was our pay. However, if you were smart, you would have looked at the financial health of the two companies as well. Would you rather be making a higher wage at company that may or may not be around in 5 or 10 years?

Yes, you didn't bring up finance and stability, BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE!! That's why I took the initiative and did it for you.

You have enjoyed "unparalled financial reward and security from the Airline industry for many years" you are quoted as saying. Congratultions. I will sleep a little better tonight knowing that.

BTW, I wasn't jabbing, just pointing out the obvious. Maybe next time you will think before you type.

Good day.

 

[Clyde]

I think some missed the sarcasm in my earlier post. If any of my data was wrong, its because I got it off www.airlinepilotpay.com, which incidentally is run by a UPS pilot. Go figure.

I too think UPS pilots are underpaid, given the profitability and growth of their company. That being said, when compared to *current* market rates, I'd say they are pretty dang competitive. Along the lines of what Clyde said, it doesn't matter if you are making $400/hr if your company is threatening Ch. 11 or furloughs.

I hope that one day soon, I can fly the big brown airplanes and dream of making the big green bucks flying for a "real airline"

BoilerUp,

Just for the record, I never took your post in a condenscending or insulting way. It is true, we are paid lower than a lot of our counterparts. That is something we will fix in our next contract.

However, LesPaul was all too quick to "hijack" what you posted and try to throw it at our faces in a less than endearing manor.

BoilerUp, I wish you the best of luck, and hopefully we'll see you on the property here someday soon.

- Clyde

 

[Les Paul]

Yes, you didn't bring up finance and stability, BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE!! .

I should have?! LOL! So I guess I should run all my posts past you for approval? I guess we have another "thought policeman" in our midst.

I didn't bring it up because it wasn't relevant to MY post. You go ahead and run along any tangent you want in YOUR posts... I'll just stick to posting my own thoughts there Lil' Hitler.

That's why I took the initiative and did it for you.

YOU took the initiative and did it for me?! LOL!! Talk about a pompous arrogant little boy! Maybe we all should just let you single handedly post for all of us, since based on your posts you seem to enjoy the self-gratification.

You have enjoyed "unparalled financial reward and security from the Airline industry for many years" you are quoted as saying. Congratultions. I will sleep a little better tonight knowing that.

You may sleep better tonight, but I'm reasonably sure that this more of a result of your self depredation habits.

BTW, I wasn't jabbing, just pointing out the obvious. Maybe next time you will think before you type..Good day.

As well I will point out the obvious.... and that is based on your posts here, you have the thought process akin to a very challenged young man.

Les Paul

 

[UPSer]

Not exactly the facts... UPS is the most profitable trucking company in the world. If you want to compare airlines then better retract the "They far exceed the Purple People Eaters in Memphis." statement.

Just setting the record straight

Both UPS and FedEx are transportation companies, not just airlines or trucking companies. The common saying around here is that UPS is a trucking company trying to run an airline and that FedEx is an airline trying to run a trucking company!

The fact remains that UPS is more profitable than FedEx, but it's kind of irrelevant as both are so much more profitable than any other company in their sector.

Just setting the record straight

 

[heavyjetpilot]

Just setting the record straight [/QUOTE]
Thanks UPSer.
I was going to gather a bit more financial info to follow up my post but I think you covered it. The next round is on me. Even though my wages are pathetic I will buy dinner also.

Cheers,
CW
A300 Capt.

 

[flybrowntails]

i agree our scope, compensation, sched., benifits are lacking and need to be improved.
(pathetic? maybe. i wish the company felt that way--may make contract 04 possible instead of contract 05-06)

fbt

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Payrates: Yes they are bad (for now), they are currently being worked on as we speak and I feel that in the end (hopefully by summer 05), we will all be very happy with the outcome. Let not forget that the rates jack0ff, Im sorry "Les Paul" cites as being so bad in "todays" world are rates that we established in 96-97 when our last contract was signed. At the time, the rates were pretty good, of course they wouldn't stand up to todays standards. Our current contract became ammendable somewhere around Dec 31, 2003 (hopefully) in the "near" future, we (UPS Pilots) will all be happy.

UPS Pilots posting on the Big "MAJORS" board... Im glad all us UPS pilots can provide some humor to your lives with our freight dawgs mentality. Yeehaa!!! Gee I wish I was qualified to post with the big dawgs...

Bladerunners comments: I support him in what he said 100%. I find it humerous how all you prespective pilots out there looking at a job with a Major" (Gee, I hope us dumb ole' UPS Freight Dawgs can be considered a Major) these days all want to do your homework and ask all these career defining question so you can make an educated decision;

How long will I be on reserve?
How long till an upgrade?
Do I have to be a FE?
How is commuting?
Can I live in this city?

As if it really matters. I mean really, OK, here is your answer, You going to be on reserve for 3-4 years, your upgrade time to FO is 4 years and then Capt 6-7 years after that. Yes your going to be an FE on the DC8 but we are thinking about displaceing you to the 727 FE and then 747 FE then back to the DC8 FE, and then we'll upgrade you to FO. And oh, by the way, commuting sucks. But we want to offer you a job anyway can you start tomorrow? Are you gong to say no!! Do any of these questions with the worst possible answer change your decision to take the job? If you say you would turn it down your lying to everyone including yourself. Too many of us think that our struggles are going to be over once you get the "dream Job" at a Major. Well your wrong, there are always going to be challenged in this business. Senority is everything in this industry weather your in the military, flying at the regional, working at some "fly by night" opns. If you get a opportunity to work at a "Major" class organization, take the job and adjust. Ohterwise stay put... Sounds harsh, but it true...

On the other had, If you have a job offer at SWA and UPS or maybe FedEx and UPS these questions might be relivent to ask to help you make a better decision. However, if you are flying somewhere where you dont want to be for the rest of your career, and you want to be at UPS, FedEx, SWA, JB, Airtran, etc. the question you need to be asking are why do I want to work for UPS, Fedex etc? How many A/C do we have? Whats a Feeder? Who started the company? As far as Upgrades, commuting, rightseat, backseat. Blah blah blah.... Does it really matter???


When I got hired here upgrades to the right seat were happening while you were in initial FE training. 9/11 happened and I as well as many ohters have been FE's now into our 4th year of employment. Its the easiest job Ive ever had, nope, havent wiggled the stix in 4 years, yeah I miss it, but I have a great job and Ill be sitting back here monitoring systems and fixing coffee till UPS tells me its time to move up. Even if I would have Known from the beginning that I would be a FE for 4 years, it wouldnt have changed my decision to take the job here. Doing your homework is important, ask the right questions and good luck.

By the way, I hope all that apply here get hired here. Were a tight pilot group and we welcome everyone with open arms...

BBDC8

 

[Bladerunner]

BBDC8, what can I say? Wow!
That was so much more eloquent than I!
Cya in a few days!!

 

[Stinkbug]

BTW - Speaking of stability (since YOU bring this up), despite past AND current industry woes, I have enjoyed unparalled financial reward and security from the Airline industry for many years, so your little jab at me falls short.

Les Paul,

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. The fact is that you were just plain LUCKY.

Speaking of pathetic, I think it's pretty pathetic that you find yourself unable to post anything on this board that isn't inflammatory. Can't you just post your thoughts without being such a jerk?

 

[sgu]

Thread Drift?

Yada Yada Yada, lets get back to the important stuff! Who has been called in for the interview and what was your secret to success???

 

[-9Capt]

Les Paul,

Can't you just post your thoughts without being such a jerk?

No, he can't. Don't let him get to you, he loves the reactions he gets.

 

[English]

Use the ignore feature. That's what I did, and life has been wonderful since...

 

[Les Paul]

Time to take that guitar and ease on down the road. I've watched for years as you've belittled and insulted people on this board. Any positive contributions have been negated by your lousy, smug, and cocky attitude. It's time to plug into your Fender Twin Reverb on another stage because as one of your peers on this board said so clearly:

Request that LesPaul be banned from the forum. He has NOTHING constructive to say on any post. Look at his past posts, he is rude, inciteful and brings no value to this message board.

I think that about covers it.

Good Luck,
UAL78

 

[PurpleTail]

So how is the new contract coming?? Any progress?? Is the new MEC in yet or are you going to leave the old ones in their after all? As profitable as UPS is I sure hope y'all hold out for what you deserve...a big fat pay raise! Good luck.

 

[coolyokeluke]

Speaking of PATHETIC Contracts. I'm surprised the High School graduate is able to type a post without sounding like a barroom drunk. This certainly is a change from your normal "drivel" that you post here. Hows that bottomfeeder carrier of your doing? Bet your REAL proud.- Les Paul

Your - possesive form. You're - contraction for you are. I'm not into being a spelling/grammar cop, but it's funny when you're insulting someone's intelligence/education.

 

[Daveman]

............

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I
And all I see on here is: How long do I have to sit RSV? How long do I have to be an engineer? How hard is it to commute? When can I be a capt.? Do I get to pick what equipment.....SERIOUSLY, are you kidding me???!

How can you tell if you've been an FE too long?


When you get done with your trip, you shut your car door on your legs....

 

[UPSer]

How can you tell if you've been an FE too long?


When you get done with your trip, you shut your car door on your legs....

Only if you are in the passenger seat.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What are the four thuds heard after take off?


The nose gear, left and right gear, and the FE's head hitting the table...

 

[Clyde]

So much in such little time.....

BIGBROWNDC8 is at a family get together. A family member walks up and says "I heard you are an airline pilot, which airline?" BIGDROWNDC8 says "UPS". The family member says "Oh.....I thought you were an Airline Pilot".

Two things I must point out BIGBROWNLOG:
Number one.. Why so defensive? If your rates are so exemplary, then why all the hostility. Oh I know...the truth hurts.
Number two.. I wouldn't be bragging about a contract that was signed 8 years ago, nor would I be saying ANYTHING except "why yes we deserve alot more than this pathetic payscale".

Judging by the posts I've seen from the boys in brown, I have a feeling it doesn't take much to be "more eloquent". You should have exercised "restraint' in your original post, rather than trying to be "eloquent".

Speaking of PATHETIC Contracts. I'm surprised the High School graduate is able to type a post without sounding like a barroom drunk. This certainly is a change from your normal "drivel" that you post here. Hows that bottomfeeder carrier of your doing? Bet your REAL proud.

But you don't ignore me. You in fact read my posts because you want to check up on what I'm saying about you. You are one of the most paranoid posters on this site. Just ask 350Driver. I assure you, English, your skeleton in the closet is safe with me.

Let me just add... any professional pilot that is happy with the staus quo of your pay and bennies, PLEASE, I beg of you, get out of Part 121 flying.

Les Paul

Hey Les Paul,
Cute little family comment you posted up there. I can't speak for BigBrownDC8, but I can speak for myself. When people ask why I'm not an "airline pilot" I tell them because I don't want to take a paycut. "Airline Pilot" is for ego-maniacs such as yourself. I bet when people ask Les Paul who he works for, their response is probably "oh, your company is still in business?", or "oh my gosh, how are you going to retire?"

Les Paul, I don't personally know BigBrownDC8, but he is fellow brown, and that makes him like family to me. I don't like it when him or any other brown pilot on this board takes hits from a loser like yourself. BigBrownDC8 is very professional in his posts, exercises restraint and eloquence, and I wouldn't expect him to stoop down to your level and return the insults.

But I'm not!! I will stoop to your level for just a minute.

Les Paul,
Every group of pilots is for the most part, a great bunch of people. But, each group has at least one a$$hole in the bunch. YOU ARE IT. I take pity on the crewmembers you have to fly with. I would be willing to bet you are the one they always bid around.
I'll go a step further. I'm willing to bet you are regretting crossing a picket line somewhere in your past too. Anyone crap in your brain-bag lately?
Remember yesterday when you posted how you've enjoyed "unparalled" financial gain and stability in this industry from years of service? Yeah, I'll bet your ex-wife is enjoying 60%-70% of it too!!

O.K., I'm finished schooling this old man. Every once in a while, you have to take the bad kid out of the sandbox and sit him in the corner for a time-out. When Les Paul's temper-tantrum is over, maybe he can rejoin the rest of us here.

I am officially ascending back to a level of (might I dare say) maturity now.

 

[flybrowntails]

Clyde:

It's cool. Others reading have already formed opinions of who's showing their bum. He does make me smile-a little.
fbt

(you are at a family reunion and a family member asks I heard you were an airline pilot/which airline/ups??? really--come on. this is just funny to me--maybe next summer at my family reunion i will dress in my brown costume (hat too). i will even give out business cards that says "PILOT, AIRLINE PILOT")

gotta go--going to the mall and walk around the food court in costume. tipping my sunglasses "why yes, i am an AIRLINE pilot"

he he

 

[Clyde]

Clyde:

It's cool. Others reading have already formed opinions of who's showing their bum. He does make me smile-a little.
fbt

(you are at a family reunion and a family member asks I heard you were an airline pilot/which airline/ups??? really--come on. this is just funny to me--maybe next summer at my family reunion i will dress in my brown costume (hat too). i will even give out business cards that says "PILOT, AIRLINE PILOT")

gotta go--going to the mall and walk around the food court in costume. tipping my sunglasses "why yes, i am an AIRLINE pilot"

he he

Thanks, I needed that. I get a kick out of the airline pilot questions too. I have a bunch of different answers depending on who I'm talking to.

BTW, do we get a discount in the food courts in our uniform? Sorry, had to ask. See ya,

- Clyde