So U wanna fly UPS

[Boz]

Bladerunner,

I like your post and give you credit as you knew you would take some flack for saying what many off us think when we read some of the posts on this site.

I actually left UPS over a decade ago for varied reasons and I have to say it does cross my mind as I look at the turmoil that is currently engaging my carrier.

I still have many close friends at UPS and we speak frequently about all the changes. It is incredible to see what pilots complain about these days. I agree with you in your post and I must say having a job that you love is something every pilot seeks. It is to bad that there is a whole different generation of pilots coming up that has never experienced the struggle to make it the show. By saying that I don't want to inflame anyone wither as I know there are many personal and professional struggles going on everyday in this industry. I just get irritated when I speak to pilots and all they cae about is questions of how much can I make here and when do I get off reserve, when are you guys going to hire and my favorite what do you see happening in the in the future??? I have no GD clue! I guess times are changing to the point where I would not even venture a guess anymore.

Anyway, great post and I to be honest I loved being a S/o...Didn't have to pay for $hit on the layovers!!!

 

[mullet]

Bladerunner,

I actually left UPS over a decade ago... It is incredible to see what pilots complain about these days... It is to bad that there is a whole different generation of pilots coming up that has never experienced the struggle to make it the show.

Struggle??? 10 years at UAL? 2nd major? at 8500 hours!
Poor, poor, child! You 're a nipple!

 

[Daveman]

This is by far the most pretentious crap I've seen on this site. Oh, and when you do come out of the saddle Mr. Bladerunner, be careful of that first step, it's a doosey.

I've posed a question to another freighter earlier. I sincerely hope the don't show the arrogance displayed here. Good day.

 

[TriJet]

I don't agree with your reasoning at all. I don't see it as entitled. I believe what he was trying to get across is that for prospective pilots to do their homework about the company and quite frankly, be thankful you did get a job at the most profitable transportation company in the world. Granted, UPS is not perfect, but it has almost a 100 yr history of being a solid, stable company to work for.

Most profitable in the world?

Does that world expand outside Kentucky?

 

[Les Paul]

I believe what he was trying to get across is that for prospective pilots to do their homework about the company and quite frankly, be thankful you did get a job at the most profitable transportation company in the world.

Do your homework?? How? Certainly by not asking this dillweed.

Well excuse me but I must point out that with his "don't talk to me with your stupid questions kid, mentality", how can you possibly "do your homework"?

I also laugh when UPS Pilots try and talk all big on the Majors Forum. It may impress the newbies, but its quite comical to the rest of us, especially looking at your pathetic payrates. He!! you haven't even taken paycuts and your still below the bar.

Les Paul

 

[BoilerUP]

UPS 8 year CA rate: $170/hr * 81hr/mo guarantee = $13770
Delta 8 year 777 CA: $209/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $13585

UPS 12 year CA rate: $190/hr * 81hr/mo guarantee = $15390
ABX 12 year 767 CA: $234/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $15210
FDX 12 year WIDE CA: $201/hr * 74hr/mo guarantee = $14874
Delta 12 year 777 CA: $216/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $14040


source: www.airlinepilotpay.com

Yeah, that's some pathetic payrate.

 

[Les Paul]

UPS 8 year CA rate: $170/hr * 81hr/mo guarantee = $13770
Delta 8 year 777 CA: $209/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $13585

source: www.airlinepilotpay.com

Yeah, that's some pathetic payrate.

I'm glad you agree with me...... the UPS payrate is PATHETIC. First off without even getting into contract specifics... we can simply take your illustrious example to make MY point.

In your example, you take 8 year UPS Captain pay with a 81 hour guarantee, and compare that to 8 year DL Captain pay with a 65 hour guarantee AFTER a 32.5 % paycut, and the difference is LESS than $200!!

Yeah... we both agree on this..... that IS PATHETIC!

Les Paul

 

[Bladerunner]

Thank you, thank you very much. My intent of my post was not anger any of the aviation dogs, I mean gods. Its intent was not meant to be pretentious. I have also failed in the fact to stress how truly lucky and happy I am to be here. I think some of you get the impression that I am placing myself upon a pedestal...Not true, actually I have been on the bottom of 2500 and loved every minute.
I am where I always wanted to be....at UPS.
One major resume sent out, one major job attained, one lucky DUDE...
Oh yes, yes I understand the tide can turn tomorrow...I get it, knock on wood, walk under ladder, etc, etc... Its the nature of our industry, feast or famine, right?
Growth and expansion is here for all, so hope I that it can include all..

 

[heavyjetpilot]

UPS 8 year CA rate: $170/hr * 81hr/mo guarantee = $13770
Delta 8 year 777 CA: $209/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $13585

UPS 12 year CA rate: $190/hr * 81hr/mo guarantee = $15390
ABX 12 year 767 CA: $234/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $15210
FDX 12 year WIDE CA: $201/hr * 74hr/mo guarantee = $14874
Delta 12 year 777 CA: $216/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $14040

Just so you understand. Our current contract is a 75hr per month pay guarantee which is based on a 13 month pay scale. So your pay scale claims are slightly inaccurate. Do the math. Never the less UPS makes all these claims of higher pay rates based on so many other things. Not that it really makes a hill of beans but the facts are the facts. UPS can say we make a 100hr a month guarantee if they chose. I do think our pay rates are pathetic. I do think our working conditions are pathetic. Ask any 767 International crew that flys over 8 hrs. what type of crew rest facility they have? It's absolutely pathetic. But the absolute bottom line is UPS is the most profitable Airline in the business. They far exceed the Purple People Eaters in Memphis. Who's to say what could happen in the next ten years or so. This business is ever changing. I am fortunate to have been hired at UPS when no one else cared to come work for browntail. I remember when I left Jetstream(Currently PSA) that everyone always laughed saying why do you want to fly all night and for that outfit. Those same people have since come to me asking for help with getting an interview. The bottom line is UPS is just a job. They could care less what you think. Just move the airplans. If you want to work for UPS good luck. If not that's your business. Remember the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
Cheers,
CW
A300 Capt.

 

[Land Green]

Clearly the majority of this discussion was directed at me for asking a few simple questions on another thread. Bladerunner, you flew off the handle, but after 20 or so replies you realized that maybe you were a little too strong. I commend you for this and your admiration for UPS.

Some people that talk on this board have a lot of experience, some don't. Some talk too much and some don't say enough. However, I think for a guy like myself who has been doing more flying abroad than on the mainland and has interest in working for UPS, well you shouldn't be so hard on him.

I don't want to work for UPS because they are hiring and pay well. Nor because UPS is one of the few companies with at least some reassurance of being around for a while......

......I want to work for UPS because it is where I have always wanted to work. I started off flying freight and I loved it; now I want to do it again. Bladerunner, I would hitchhike to SDF if I needed to, I don't need to ride in an airplane. Pay and seat are for me irrelevant and I don't concern myself with too many QOL issues either. I just want to live out my dream.

I asked those few questions in a humbled way and out of ignorance, not because I want an easy road. I am of the opinion too that no one knows the airplane better than an engineer. I have flown some Boeings and Airbusses throughout the years and always wished that I was a training Captain or something like that, so that I would be forced to know my airplane inside and out. As an FE, you understand all the systems better than anyone, unless the other two guys or gals were FE's once upon a time too. I would embrace this challenge and welcome it with open arms. Why? Because, any pilot who flies an Airbus would be lying if they said they knew everything about the airplane....many things are still a mystery.

Finally, the majority of my questions were only asked so that I can discuss things with my family, ie. what kind of dwelling could we afford, where would we need to move to, and what kind of renumeration could one expect in order to make all this happen.

I think we need to remember that this is an interview board where things like this need to be discussed. Bladerunner, you clearly are where I want to be. And all those UPS folks out there who feel that some questions are inappropriate, please remember that soon we may be doing all your walk-arounds in the driving snow and scorching heat, and soon we may be getting you the coffees, meals and whatever else there is to do.....only because we are grateful and because we admire you for helping us along, whether it be on these forums or in the airplane when we accidentally flipped the wrong switch.

LG

 

[Bladerunner]

Well said Land Green, I admire your words and we share the same sentiments towards our "Dream Job"....Hope to see you here soon

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

It's good to see some contrition on the part of Bladerunner, his original post came across as very condescending. Such an attitude would certainly give me pause about spending a trip with him when he finally makes captain!

 

[sleepy]

Only 3 years as a FE, that doesn't sound too bad. I had an instructor a while back that was an FE for 15 of his 25 years at TWA (with 4 furloughs to boot).

 

[Clyde]

I'm glad you agree with me...... the UPS payrate is PATHETIC. First off without even getting into contract specifics... we can simply take your illustrious example to make MY point.

In your example, you take 8 year UPS Captain pay with a 81 hour guarantee, and compare that to 8 year DL Captain pay with a 65 hour guarantee AFTER a 32.5 % paycut, and the difference is LESS than $200!!

Yeah... we both agree on this..... that IS PATHETIC!

Les Paul

After trying hard not to post on here, I had to chime in. My intent is not to start a flame war here, but rather to just point out the obvious.

According to your above quote, you are saying that the UPS payrate is pathetic. Given, under the current DAL contract, their pilots are making more per hour than we are here at UPS.

However, what do you have to say if we were to compare balance sheets and profit/loss statements on here? If we were to compare the financial health of DAL to the financial health of UPS, DAL's financial health is PATHETIC! The biggest topic discussed on this website about DAL (besides the pay rate) is them teetering on the brink of filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. I don't care how much an employer is paying in hourly wages, the threat of filing Chapter 11 is not a good thing for the employees.

The wages may be lower over here at UPS (at least for now), but we score very high in the longevity and stability categories. So, the next time you view the salary portion of an airline, please also look at the financial health as well.

 

[Clyde]

Only 3 years as a FE, that doesn't sound too bad. I had an instructor a while back that was an FE for 15 of his 25 years at TWA (with 4 furloughs to boot).

I was an FE for two years. (Stint as an FO between them before being displaced) The job was actually kind of fun, and I enjoyed it. On the 747, once the airplane was airborne the hardest part of the job was not burning the food while crossing the ocean.

 

[Les Paul]

According to your above quote, you are saying that the UPS payrate is pathetic. Given, under the current DAL contract, their pilots are making more per hour than we are here at UPS.
The wages may be lower over here at UPS (at least for now), but we score very high in the longevity and stability categories. So, the next time you view the salary portion of an airline, please also look at the financial health as well.

I agree with you based on YOUR post... however it strays from my original reply to this thread. Please show me where I mention ANYTHING about company financial health.

My original reply was to the person defending the original poster who started this thread. In my reply I asserted that the UPS payrates are pathetic. Thanks to the "eager beaver" fact finding reply of Boilerup, he helped me substantiate that fact, (though I don't believe that was his intent). Facts are facts..period.

BTW - Speaking of stability (since YOU bring this up), despite past AND current industry woes, I have enjoyed unparalled financial reward and security from the Airline industry for many years, so your little jab at me falls short.

Just like you.... just pointing out the obvious....

Les Paul

 

[BoilerUP]

I think some missed the sarcasm in my earlier post. If any of my data was wrong, its because I got it off www.airlinepilotpay.com, which incidentally is run by a UPS pilot. Go figure.

I too think UPS pilots are underpaid, given the profitability and growth of their company. That being said, when compared to *current* market rates, I'd say they are pretty dang competitive. Along the lines of what Clyde said, it doesn't matter if you are making $400/hr if your company is threatening Ch. 11 or furloughs.

I hope that one day soon, I can fly the big brown airplanes and dream of making the big green bucks flying for a "real airline"

 

[JethroF15]

... But the absolute bottom line is UPS is the most profitable Airline in the business. They far exceed the Purple People Eaters in Memphis. ...
CW
A300 Capt.

Not exactly the facts... UPS is the most profitable trucking company in the world. If you want to compare airlines then better retract the "They far exceed the Purple People Eaters in Memphis." statement.

Just setting the record straight

 

[Clyde]

I agree with you based on YOUR post... however it strays from my original reply to this thread. Please show me where I mention ANYTHING about company financial health.

My original reply was to the person defending the original poster who started this thread. In my reply I asserted that the UPS payrates are pathetic. Thanks to the "eager beaver" fact finding reply of Boilerup, he helped me substantiate that fact, (though I don't believe that was his intent). Facts are facts..period.

BTW - Speaking of stability (since YOU bring this up), despite past AND current industry woes, I have enjoyed unparalled financial reward and security from the Airline industry for many years, so your little jab at me falls short.

Just like you.... just pointing out the obvious....

Les Paul

Before I respond, let me re-post my original post in it's entirity. Not the edited version of what you quoted.

After trying hard not to post on here, I had to chime in. My intent is not to start a flame war here, but rather to just point out the obvious.

According to your above quote, you are saying that the UPS payrate is pathetic. Given, under the current DAL contract, their pilots are making more per hour than we are here at UPS.

However, what do you have to say if we were to compare balance sheets and profit/loss statements on here? If we were to compare the financial health of DAL to the financial health of UPS, DAL's financial health is PATHETIC! The biggest topic discussed on this website about DAL (besides the pay rate) is them teetering on the brink of filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. I don't care how much an employer is paying in hourly wages, the threat of filing Chapter 11 is not a good thing for the employees.

The wages may be lower over here at UPS (at least for now), but we score very high in the longevity and stability categories. So, the next time you view the salary portion of an airline, please also look at the financial health as well.

First of all, you didn't mention anything about financial health. I DID. Your post was simply pointing out how you think our payscales are pathetic, and you have a right to your opinion. I was simply pointing out the fact that even though our pay rates are not the highest in the industry, our financial performance is very solid, very sound, and very strong. Again, you're absolutely correct, you didn't bring up anything about company financial health, BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE. That was my point.

You are quoted as saying "Facts are facts..period." I will agree with you on this too. Facts are facts. FACT: The UPS pilot payscale is quite low when compared to a lot of other scales in the industry. FACT: As a pilot group, we would like to raise that wage. FACT: There is less stress paying the bills each month when the financial health of your company is not currently in question. FACT: UPS has been around for almost 100 years, has survived 2 world wars, a depression, numerous recessions, and is constantly reinventing itself. FACT: UPS pilots have never been asked to take PAY CONCESSIONS (that's the opposite of a raise). FACT: Even though my pay is less here than my counteparts at DAL, I still have no problem surving on a little over $100K per year, and I look forward to that wage going UP.

Do you see my point now? You were very quick to point out one thing, which was our pay. However, if you were smart, you would have looked at the financial health of the two companies as well. Would you rather be making a higher wage at company that may or may not be around in 5 or 10 years?

Yes, you didn't bring up finance and stability, BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE!! That's why I took the initiative and did it for you.

You have enjoyed "unparalled financial reward and security from the Airline industry for many years" you are quoted as saying. Congratultions. I will sleep a little better tonight knowing that.

BTW, I wasn't jabbing, just pointing out the obvious. Maybe next time you will think before you type.

Good day.

 

[Clyde]

I think some missed the sarcasm in my earlier post. If any of my data was wrong, its because I got it off www.airlinepilotpay.com, which incidentally is run by a UPS pilot. Go figure.

I too think UPS pilots are underpaid, given the profitability and growth of their company. That being said, when compared to *current* market rates, I'd say they are pretty dang competitive. Along the lines of what Clyde said, it doesn't matter if you are making $400/hr if your company is threatening Ch. 11 or furloughs.

I hope that one day soon, I can fly the big brown airplanes and dream of making the big green bucks flying for a "real airline"

BoilerUp,

Just for the record, I never took your post in a condenscending or insulting way. It is true, we are paid lower than a lot of our counterparts. That is something we will fix in our next contract.

However, LesPaul was all too quick to "hijack" what you posted and try to throw it at our faces in a less than endearing manor.

BoilerUp, I wish you the best of luck, and hopefully we'll see you on the property here someday soon.

- Clyde