So U wanna fly UPS

[Bladerunner]

I was in the LAST class hired at UPS pre-9/11.
I am finally, against my own better judgement going to post here.
I have been a commuter
I have been an engineer for almost three and a half years, been displaced twice.
I have not bid a vacation or schedual bid in 2 years, ( I mean not even bothered to).
I have flown approx. 230hrs in this time frame, yes 230.
I have not taken a pay cut.
I have not been furloughed.
I have not complained until now.

So many of you want to be a UPS pilot, huh?
Ya got lotsa HEAVY jet time, you've paid your dues, flown your rear off, maybe even had to take some pay cuts, lost a job or two...
I have met many individuals just like you...
And all I see on here is: How long do I have to sit RSV? How long do I have to be an engineer? How hard is it to commute? When can I be a capt.? Do I get to pick what equipment.....SERIOUSLY, are you kidding me???
Cmon your kidding right? With the way everything is going now days in this industry and all you can come with is "How long do I HAVE to be an engineer?"
Please, you insult me and the rest of brethern (BBDC8) who have waitied patiently as "Engineers"
How about "What can I do to be a UPS pilot, what does it take, how, when?"
There are pilots out there that would kill for a UPS job.
I commend all of those individuals that would do anything to be one of us, my hat is off to you.
As for the rest of you whose biggest worry is commuting, and being an engineer. Please go back to the commuter or whatever pay cutting airline from whence you came. Quit wasting our time. Its just like all the other commuting you have ever done in your career.
As far as what it does take to get hired, thats easy....Getting the interview thats the key...cant help you there. But once you have one, well thats a secret that I know.....
Good luck all!

 

[UPSer]

Well said!!!

 

[pb4ufly]

What beer are you on?

 

[coho92]

Well said. May have flown with you downrange in the last year. Congrats on finally gaining some senority and I'm hoping I can displace you to the FO job and I'll do my best winding the clock on the panel.

 

[capt. megadeth]

How about "What can I do to be a UPS pilot, what does it take, how, when?"
There are pilots out there that would kill for a UPS job.
QUOTE]

ME ME ME! Pick me!

 

[Slowtation]

Highly amusing Dude,

i would be very careful about angering the aviation gods. You speak with the same tone as a 1999 legacy pilot.

I wish you luck.

Good times,

Slow

 

[mullet]

Easy pal!

How long do I have to sit RSV? How long do I have to be an engineer? How hard is it to commute? When can I be a capt.? Do I get to pick what equipment.....SERIOUSLY, are you kidding me???

No I don't think they are. Are you kidding me? Anyone interested in working for my airline are more than welcome to ask questions on our working conditions. No, son dont ask that, consider yourself fortunate to even be here. So anybody interested in working for UPS should show up and be grateful they are there, should count there lucky stars that they have been chosen. Your attitude makes me sick. Jesus, I think most of us experienced that attitude from the first CFI, 135 and 121 operator jobs. Get over yourself, most guys have families and been through very turbulent times and are just trying to get an idea of how their life and/or QOL is going to be if they where offered a position at your company. Sorry that is beneath your expectations of your future co-workers.What are they supposed to inquire about? bases/equipment/payrates/color of your uniforms???
When most other professionals interview for a job questions like these are expected and are most certainly the norm.
You won partner, you landed a great gig, stop insulting us for asking questions that I'm sure you asked years ago.
By the by, how long can one expect to sit a reserve, anyway?

 

[UPSer]

Highly amusing Dude,

i would be very careful about angering the aviation gods. You speak with the same tone as a 1999 legacy pilot.

I wish you luck.

Good times,

Slow

And what "Dude" are you referring to?

 

[Slowtation]

The original Dude; Dude

 

[UPSer]

And what exactly made him sound like a "legacy" pilot?

 

[mullet]

His

ar·ro·gant https://secure.reference.com/premiu...://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=arrogantHaving or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.

1. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others: an arrogant contempt for the weak. See Synonyms at proud.

attitude!!!

 

[UPSer]

What did he say was arrogant?

 

[mullet]

This!

I was in the LAST class hired at UPS pre-9/11.
I am finally, against my own better judgement going to post here.
I have been a commuter
I have been an engineer for almost three and a half years, been displaced twice.
I have not bid a vacation or schedual bid in 2 years, ( I mean not even bothered to).
I have flown approx. 230hrs in this time frame, yes 230.
I have not taken a pay cut.
I have not been furloughed.
I have not complained until now.

So many of you want to be a UPS pilot, huh?
Ya got lotsa HEAVY jet time, you've paid your dues, flown your rear off, maybe even had to take some pay cuts, lost a job or two...
I have met many individuals just like you...
And all I see on here is: How long do I have to sit RSV? How long do I have to be an engineer? How hard is it to commute? When can I be a capt.? Do I get to pick what equipment.....SERIOUSLY, are you kidding me???
Cmon your kidding right? With the way everything is going now days in this industry and all you can come with is "How long do I HAVE to be an engineer?"
Please, you insult me and the rest of brethern (BBDC8) who have waitied patiently as "Engineers"
How about "What can I do to be a UPS pilot, what does it take, how, when?"
There are pilots out there that would kill for a UPS job.
I commend all of those individuals that would do anything to be one of us, my hat is off to you.
As for the rest of you whose biggest worry is commuting, and being an engineer. Please go back to the commuter or whatever pay cutting airline from whence you came. Quit wasting our time. Its just like all the other commuting you have ever done in your career.
As far as what it does take to get hired, thats easy....Getting the interview thats the key...cant help you there. But once you have one, well thats a secret that I know.....
Good luck all!

 

[Slowtation]

You are correct. i understand his point that beggars can't be bitchers. But his tone seems a bit entitled. UPS is a great place to work right now. And he is very fortunate to be there. However, I am suggesting that he get his high horse a bit, and just be happy.

There are a lot of people on the street right now jonesing for jobs. We, who have jobs should paint ourselves lucky.

Happy Monday--Brother,

Slow

 

[thruthemurk]

Easy pal!
No I don't think they are. Are you kidding me? Anyone interested in working for my airline are more than welcome to ask questions on our working conditions. No, son dont ask that, consider yourself fortunate to even be here. So anybody interested in working for UPS should show up and be grateful they are there, should count there lucky stars that they have been chosen. Your attitude makes me sick. .....?

I thought blade runner had a decent post until I read yours. Right on!! F#ck this slave worker mentality where I am oh so lucky to get a job. Your g*dd%mn right I have some questions about what XX company has to offer, and what the working conditions will be. Maybe if more pilots felt this way, our profession would not be in the graveyard spiral that it is.

Murk

 

[UPSer]

I don't agree with your reasoning at all. I don't see it as entitled. I believe what he was trying to get across is that for prospective pilots to do their homework about the company and quite frankly, be thankful you did get a job at the most profitable transportation company in the world. Granted, UPS is not perfect, but it has almost a 100 yr history of being a solid, stable company to work for.

 

[mullet]

Murk, thanks buddy.

 

[Slowtation]

OK. I am not suggesting that this will happen. But here is a scenario that could happen:

McKensey or BGC comes in and makes an assessment that UPS should not fly its own freight. So executives go on a secret 5 year plan to outsource more and more flying to places like Cappy and NAC. After a time all of the FE / ROPES go away. Then the concessions and furloughs start.

Be careful. But for the grace of God…

Next furloughed pilots from 121 world who were all about union brotherhood and max pay til’ the last day show up at my FBO, and whore themselves out in 91 land for nothing--driving down everyone’s wages. This has been the cycle I have observed since 01’.

I guess I have a different life experience.

 

[English]

Next furloughed pilots from 121 world who were all about union brotherhood and max pay til’ the last day show up at my FBO, and whore themselves out in 91 land for nothing--driving down everyone’s wages. This has been the cycle I have observed since 01’.

While I don't see the correlation with this thread, I do have to agree with this statement.

 

[Slowtation]

Hey English--just my recant to UPSer about entited pilots.

 

[Boz]

Bladerunner,

I like your post and give you credit as you knew you would take some flack for saying what many off us think when we read some of the posts on this site.

I actually left UPS over a decade ago for varied reasons and I have to say it does cross my mind as I look at the turmoil that is currently engaging my carrier.

I still have many close friends at UPS and we speak frequently about all the changes. It is incredible to see what pilots complain about these days. I agree with you in your post and I must say having a job that you love is something every pilot seeks. It is to bad that there is a whole different generation of pilots coming up that has never experienced the struggle to make it the show. By saying that I don't want to inflame anyone wither as I know there are many personal and professional struggles going on everyday in this industry. I just get irritated when I speak to pilots and all they cae about is questions of how much can I make here and when do I get off reserve, when are you guys going to hire and my favorite what do you see happening in the in the future??? I have no GD clue! I guess times are changing to the point where I would not even venture a guess anymore.

Anyway, great post and I to be honest I loved being a S/o...Didn't have to pay for $hit on the layovers!!!

 

[mullet]

Bladerunner,

I actually left UPS over a decade ago... It is incredible to see what pilots complain about these days... It is to bad that there is a whole different generation of pilots coming up that has never experienced the struggle to make it the show.

Struggle??? 10 years at UAL? 2nd major? at 8500 hours!
Poor, poor, child! You 're a nipple!

 

[Daveman]

This is by far the most pretentious crap I've seen on this site. Oh, and when you do come out of the saddle Mr. Bladerunner, be careful of that first step, it's a doosey.

I've posed a question to another freighter earlier. I sincerely hope the don't show the arrogance displayed here. Good day.

 

[TriJet]

I don't agree with your reasoning at all. I don't see it as entitled. I believe what he was trying to get across is that for prospective pilots to do their homework about the company and quite frankly, be thankful you did get a job at the most profitable transportation company in the world. Granted, UPS is not perfect, but it has almost a 100 yr history of being a solid, stable company to work for.

Most profitable in the world?

Does that world expand outside Kentucky?

 

[Les Paul]

I believe what he was trying to get across is that for prospective pilots to do their homework about the company and quite frankly, be thankful you did get a job at the most profitable transportation company in the world.

Do your homework?? How? Certainly by not asking this dillweed.

Well excuse me but I must point out that with his "don't talk to me with your stupid questions kid, mentality", how can you possibly "do your homework"?

I also laugh when UPS Pilots try and talk all big on the Majors Forum. It may impress the newbies, but its quite comical to the rest of us, especially looking at your pathetic payrates. He!! you haven't even taken paycuts and your still below the bar.

Les Paul

 

[BoilerUP]

UPS 8 year CA rate: $170/hr * 81hr/mo guarantee = $13770
Delta 8 year 777 CA: $209/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $13585

UPS 12 year CA rate: $190/hr * 81hr/mo guarantee = $15390
ABX 12 year 767 CA: $234/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $15210
FDX 12 year WIDE CA: $201/hr * 74hr/mo guarantee = $14874
Delta 12 year 777 CA: $216/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $14040


source: www.airlinepilotpay.com

Yeah, that's some pathetic payrate.

 

[Les Paul]

UPS 8 year CA rate: $170/hr * 81hr/mo guarantee = $13770
Delta 8 year 777 CA: $209/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $13585

source: www.airlinepilotpay.com

Yeah, that's some pathetic payrate.

I'm glad you agree with me...... the UPS payrate is PATHETIC. First off without even getting into contract specifics... we can simply take your illustrious example to make MY point.

In your example, you take 8 year UPS Captain pay with a 81 hour guarantee, and compare that to 8 year DL Captain pay with a 65 hour guarantee AFTER a 32.5 % paycut, and the difference is LESS than $200!!

Yeah... we both agree on this..... that IS PATHETIC!

Les Paul

 

[Bladerunner]

Thank you, thank you very much. My intent of my post was not anger any of the aviation dogs, I mean gods. Its intent was not meant to be pretentious. I have also failed in the fact to stress how truly lucky and happy I am to be here. I think some of you get the impression that I am placing myself upon a pedestal...Not true, actually I have been on the bottom of 2500 and loved every minute.
I am where I always wanted to be....at UPS.
One major resume sent out, one major job attained, one lucky DUDE...
Oh yes, yes I understand the tide can turn tomorrow...I get it, knock on wood, walk under ladder, etc, etc... Its the nature of our industry, feast or famine, right?
Growth and expansion is here for all, so hope I that it can include all..

 

[heavyjetpilot]

UPS 8 year CA rate: $170/hr * 81hr/mo guarantee = $13770
Delta 8 year 777 CA: $209/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $13585

UPS 12 year CA rate: $190/hr * 81hr/mo guarantee = $15390
ABX 12 year 767 CA: $234/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $15210
FDX 12 year WIDE CA: $201/hr * 74hr/mo guarantee = $14874
Delta 12 year 777 CA: $216/hr * 65hr/mo guarantee = $14040

Just so you understand. Our current contract is a 75hr per month pay guarantee which is based on a 13 month pay scale. So your pay scale claims are slightly inaccurate. Do the math. Never the less UPS makes all these claims of higher pay rates based on so many other things. Not that it really makes a hill of beans but the facts are the facts. UPS can say we make a 100hr a month guarantee if they chose. I do think our pay rates are pathetic. I do think our working conditions are pathetic. Ask any 767 International crew that flys over 8 hrs. what type of crew rest facility they have? It's absolutely pathetic. But the absolute bottom line is UPS is the most profitable Airline in the business. They far exceed the Purple People Eaters in Memphis. Who's to say what could happen in the next ten years or so. This business is ever changing. I am fortunate to have been hired at UPS when no one else cared to come work for browntail. I remember when I left Jetstream(Currently PSA) that everyone always laughed saying why do you want to fly all night and for that outfit. Those same people have since come to me asking for help with getting an interview. The bottom line is UPS is just a job. They could care less what you think. Just move the airplans. If you want to work for UPS good luck. If not that's your business. Remember the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
Cheers,
CW
A300 Capt.

 

[Land Green]

Clearly the majority of this discussion was directed at me for asking a few simple questions on another thread. Bladerunner, you flew off the handle, but after 20 or so replies you realized that maybe you were a little too strong. I commend you for this and your admiration for UPS.

Some people that talk on this board have a lot of experience, some don't. Some talk too much and some don't say enough. However, I think for a guy like myself who has been doing more flying abroad than on the mainland and has interest in working for UPS, well you shouldn't be so hard on him.

I don't want to work for UPS because they are hiring and pay well. Nor because UPS is one of the few companies with at least some reassurance of being around for a while......

......I want to work for UPS because it is where I have always wanted to work. I started off flying freight and I loved it; now I want to do it again. Bladerunner, I would hitchhike to SDF if I needed to, I don't need to ride in an airplane. Pay and seat are for me irrelevant and I don't concern myself with too many QOL issues either. I just want to live out my dream.

I asked those few questions in a humbled way and out of ignorance, not because I want an easy road. I am of the opinion too that no one knows the airplane better than an engineer. I have flown some Boeings and Airbusses throughout the years and always wished that I was a training Captain or something like that, so that I would be forced to know my airplane inside and out. As an FE, you understand all the systems better than anyone, unless the other two guys or gals were FE's once upon a time too. I would embrace this challenge and welcome it with open arms. Why? Because, any pilot who flies an Airbus would be lying if they said they knew everything about the airplane....many things are still a mystery.

Finally, the majority of my questions were only asked so that I can discuss things with my family, ie. what kind of dwelling could we afford, where would we need to move to, and what kind of renumeration could one expect in order to make all this happen.

I think we need to remember that this is an interview board where things like this need to be discussed. Bladerunner, you clearly are where I want to be. And all those UPS folks out there who feel that some questions are inappropriate, please remember that soon we may be doing all your walk-arounds in the driving snow and scorching heat, and soon we may be getting you the coffees, meals and whatever else there is to do.....only because we are grateful and because we admire you for helping us along, whether it be on these forums or in the airplane when we accidentally flipped the wrong switch.

LG