So I got failed on my -II today....

hindsight2020

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Yeah, I'm still pretty animate about it but it's not that big of a deal. Time to vent...

Officially, the notice of disapproval lists re-examination on:
AREA OF OPERATION VII, TASK B


Now I wonder how to proceed to get the ticket, once I get the academic flight with the fellow instructor to re-sign me for examination. Should I do it with Cappie, or go to the next DE? If my interpretation of the re-examination is correct, the re-check will ONLY consist of NO oral, takeoff to the hold, DO A HOLD, no approach, land visual. Is this what I should expect? Who should I do it with?

There,I feel much better now. Busted in the easiest checkride of them all heh? ;) I do feel a little good about it, keeps me commited and driven, and a better and humble man :)

Happy Flying!
 
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dueguard1

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Good luck with that dude Man.....I've heard plenty of horror stories from several folks I know who have trained in the Atlanta FSDO.....this guy is notorious for CFI ride busts....Damn doesn't he realize he's affecting a person's entire flying career.....Oh well..ran out of cash went to Florida got the ticket anyways best of luck to ya the next time around, It's your for the taking!!!
 

banned username 2

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Well no offense, but I read about half of this and all I have seen how it was everyone else and eveerything elses fault except your own... I have never seen a winds aloft forecast OR report that shows any kind of gust factor... So your single radio C-172 has the ability to give you accurate wind direction and speed (including gusts)? HHmmmm...

Sounds to me, from what I read, that when he gave you that hold that you knew you really couldn't safely (and accurately) do that you should have told him "unable" and asked for something else, just like you (should) do in real life... If the winds were that bad that you felt you shouldn't do the ride, you as PIC should have scrubbed the flight... If you didn't have the operable equipment that you felt you needed for the mission, you as PIC should have scrubbed the flight...

I'm sorry you failed your checkride, but perhaps you should look in the mirror first for blame, prior to trying to find other (less painful) reasons...
 

hindsight2020

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Just venting fellas. It's all good :D

Regarding the winds, I called the FSS guy in-flight to give me the winds aloft (give them some to do).....sans the gust factor hair-splitting, the winds were 45-50kts .

It wasn't a safety issue, uncomfortable at best, but not unsafe. It was a logistical brainfart to try and be MacGyver, and that was my fault. I felt pigeon-holed to be honest, but I'll concede that argument and call it on me.

All that said, had I had the DME, the hold would have been a cake; had it been anything less than wicked choppy, the charts would have stayed in my lap rather than all over the cockpit. At least give me that holding on an intersection with a single VOR receiver, with considerable crosswind, no DME to alleviate triangulation, and no frequency swap button, in a 172, with an a$$hole DE with the sh$tiest attitude, is not necessarily the easiest thing to perform. And forget the checkride, just plain flying by yourself, I'm sure I'm not the only one guilty of messing an intersection hold with a boy scout compass and a wire hangar.........But you're right, the devil is in the details, I should have cried foul and no-go'ed the checkride. The whole handing him a fat check on the ground kinda gave me "let's-get-this-crap-done-I-need-a-jobitis" :D

It shouldn't be a big deal completing the ride, it's ONE measly task bullet, I just wonder if I should do it with him or somebody else. I just don't want to go over all that sh%t that's approved on paper already. Did learn a lot, nothing about flying though :D
 

say again

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Cry me a freakin' river!!!!:bawling: YOU failed, not the examiner. Place the blame were it's deserved. If you plan on flying for a career, I suggest you get used to this!!! 45-50 mph winds??? ooohhhh!!!!:rolleyes:
 

satpak77

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hindsight2020 said:
Yeah, I'm still pretty animate about it but it's not that big of a deal. Time to vent...

So, because of the hours that the oral took, now the winds decided to f%ck my day up. 11 gusting to 19 at the surface, great! God only knows what kind of sh%t is going on aloft....my guess was they weren't going to help me. So up I go in the mighty Skyhawk and..uh-oh!...DME inop.....no biggie, I passed a CFIA with FSDO first-time, I can handle this scenario.

Well off we go to the runway hold short and he gives me a mock clearance and like a good flow pilot I spit it back from memory, which was my mistake since I always write it down when I fly IFR. I would have preferred to have filed IFR for real like I did back in my IR checkride, that way I would have written it down instead of spewing it from memory. So we take off and he wrote down that I didn't check the DG for a THIRD time, two times on the ground wasn't enough for him. I wanted to say: "f%ck Captain, it's a 172, it's gonna precess ANYWAYS, let it go, 10 degress (what he noted the deviation to be at the time I hit the afterburner on the mighty Skyhawk) won't kill ya". No biggie, we press on.

Happy Flying!
Surface winds gusting to 19 knots? You kidding me? That is a normal day in KLBB/KMAF/KSJT where I did my training. "What is going on winds aloft?" I guess you are taking to the C172 up to the flight levels, maybe that jetstream might affect you.

Instead of wanted to say "f*** Captain" to the FSDO Inpsector, you might play the game and tell him what a good idea that is and how you will employ that technique in your flying. Also, yeah, its only a checkride, you said you write clearances down in daily flying, well Einstein, you might do that on a FSDO ride. I mean, not for nothing but you might try it.

Do the above on Ride II and get back to us. I am sure your chances will improve
 

ePilot22

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Busted II

I did my CFII ride in Oklahoma, it had been pretty nice weather for the early summer, other than being HOT! But the day of the checkride the winds aloft were in the 35-4kts range. The DE looked at me and said "I'm still holding you to PTS standards", I looked at him and said "Let's reschedule." It's tempting and I really just wanted to get the ride over with, but I don't think he really wanted to fly that day either.

Good Luck next time!
 

BluDevAv8r

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Sounds to me like you should never have flown in the first place....is that the kind of day that would be conducive to a good learning environment? Would you teach someone in an airplane with only 1 radio and no DME? Sorry, but I think the blame lays squarely on your shoulders. We all have dinged checkrides. Take something away from your pink slip and move on...you'll do fine on the next one.

-Neal
 

troy

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what doesn't kill ya will make you stronger.
 

say again

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troy said:
what doesn't kill ya will make you stronger.
Alcohol certainly isn't making me any stronger!!!!!:beer: Bigger, but not stronger.:laugh:
 

B-J-J Fighter

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I use to work at the place you took your checkride, for the man you took your checkride with. You should have use Clyde "Let it Slide" Shelton or Joey Sanders near BHM. I did my CFI ride with the same person you did and the stars must have been aligned for me that day. Busting a CFI ride is not a show stopper when you go to get your next job, I wouldn't worry about it. Bring back your money and redo the portion you messed up on and I would bet theres a 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% chance you will pass. Good luck, oh yeah bring cash!
 

Terry Hunter

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Truth is most people ding a checkride here or there. I failed one as well, and I think it was the best thing that happened to me; It reminded me to hold every checkride as a very serious matter that can't be looked past. And to keep my attitude in check too.

Review, and go back to the same guy.
 

hindsight2020

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Thanks for the advice, I'll dust off and schedule the re-examination. I do agree with the comments regarding the decision-making aspect of accepting to go through with the checkride, I admit I was trying to get this thing done (not writing down the mock clearance is perhaps testament to this).

It's only the holding task. Next time two radios, a piece of paper to write down the clearance and a more conservative check on the winds aloft.

I'll keep ya fellas posted on how the re-check goes. Thanks.
 

CA1900

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I read the account, and it strikes me that you were expecting the whole thing to be a gimme. You even said it yourself: "Busted in the easiest checkride of them all heh?" I never heard that said about the CFII.

Based solely on your account, you weren't taking the ride or the examiner seriously, and he picked up on it. You lost SA as the "instructor," and that can get you killed down the line. Say what you will about his attitude, I'd have dinged you on it too.

I'm sure you'll do fine on the retest. But do understand that while the examiner is only required to test the area of operation that you failed, he has the discretion to test as much other stuff as he likes. He can do the whole ride over if he likes. So stay sharp.
 

FlyingFisherman

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The CFII ride was cake. Of course...I went into it over prepared and with a good attitude. Trying to be super pilot king of the skygods by not writing down your clearance should get you failed right off the bat and if I was the DE I'd stop the flight then and there.
 

wmuflyguy

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At least give me that holding on an intersection with a single VOR receiver, with considerable crosswind, no DME to alleviate triangulation, and no frequency swap button, in a 172, with an a$$hole DE with the sh$tiest attitude, is not necessarily the easiest thing to perform
I'm pretty sure you have to supply an aircraft that allows you to accompliosh all tasks in the PTS. You could have said unable, for a DME or intersection hold. (though i wouldn't let you off the hook for the intersection hold, It is doable, but not easy).
 

hindsight2020

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There was no problem with the airplane as it went configured for the checkride. I went into the aircraft with the expectation of it having an operational DME, when it didn't I made the mistake of continuing with the checkride. That decision right there was directly responsible for the dissaproval, because at that point I had set myself up for a whole lot of difficulties, particualrly with the intersection hold. The single VOR had GS capability (which covers the ILS) and the aircraft had an ADF, which enabled me to proceed with the VOR approach that required "DME or ADF"..so once again, I screwed myself by taking a knife to a gunfight. Plus you had to see how choppy it was, I'm not making an excuse, you just had to be there to understand how miserable the conditions were. Somebody touched on that point with the question of whether or not you would have performed an instrument lesson in those conditions. Well, in spite of it being SKC VFR the answer would be no, since it would have not been conducive to learning. By implication then, a -II checkride surely wouldn't have been productive either, alas it wasn't. So I think that assertion goes to the heart of what my error was.

One day at a time though, I take pride in the fact that I managed to satisfy all other tasks successfully and only have to perform the hold next time (if God smiles on me that day and the DE is reasonable). As for "not letting me off the hook" for the intersection hold bust, it was a statistical crapshoot at that point, I have done them successfully in my CFII training and in single pilot IFR currency flights, so I'm not in the least concerned about my ability to tackle them on a day to day basis. Like I said before, what I did take from the experience was a re-evaluation of external factors to the flight and how it plays into my decision-making process.

Besides, talking to pilots about pilot performance is like asking people in prison "what you in here for?" : "Well... you didn't know? We're all innocent here!" :D You'll get 1000 replies of "I could have done that in my sleep, that's cake" and maybe one reply of "could have happened to me bro" That comes with the territory so it's all good. The advice was still appreciated though.
 

kaj837

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I have always thought the retest concept was somewhat flawed. Many years ago I failed my initial CFI ride because I stupidly forgot to tell the Inspector to do clearing turns before "teaching" him straight ahead stalls. I then had to take an hour or so of dual and go back and have him do clearing turns. I screwed up badly, but going back doing a couple of turns and one power off, straight ahead stall seemed silly. I have never neglected them since though and that was a loooong time ago.

As far as the aircraft equipment goes even though in the bad, old days we did fly IFR regularly with one 27 channel transmitter, tunable receiver Narco Omnigator, usually with an ADF, would I do it today? Hell no. Too much work, and too much chance of screwing up. Now if stuff starts failing once you are already there probably you will get special handling from ATC to ease the workload.
 
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