SLC ASA pilots... tell us what Jerry has to say

[DrunkIrishman]

GL, FDJ-

You two are the biggest haters of "commuter" pilots I have seen. You miss the bigger picture, all of these aircraft should be flown by DL pilots. Every last airplane that has the DL code should be flown by a DL pilot. Period. Instead of pressing this with your LEC's and MEC's, you sit on this board and hate folks. Hate the game, not the playa baby!

 

[Tomct]

:angryfireYeah...well we will see just how much their "bottom line" grows when we PARK 160 plus airplanes! Strike Vote NOW!!
JA is about to have a run in with a pilot group that HAS a pair!

Oh Please...you are one of those people that I am ashamed work for the same company! I believe that you would walk across any picket line just to fly airplanes!

 

[180ToTheMarker]

180,

The "yankee boy" comment just sets it up too perfectly! One word: Braves.

-Blucher

Um, I still don't get it. I must be a dumb redneck.

 

[General Lee]

GL, FDJ-

You two are the biggest haters of "commuter" pilots I have seen. You miss the bigger picture, all of these aircraft should be flown by DL pilots. Every last airplane that has the DL code should be flown by a DL pilot. Period. Instead of pressing this with your LEC's and MEC's, you sit on this board and hate folks. Hate the game, not the playa baby!

I don't hate "commuter" pilots, I used to be one. What I am concerned about is our shrinking fleet and getting back our furloughed pilots. I have stated on this thread that I will vote NO for any allowance of planes larger than 70 seats, and I think that will preserve some mainline flying. I never said DCI shouldn't get some more 70 seaters, but there should be a line drawn, and yes, we should have done it at 50 seats or even RJs period. And, who says I haven't pressed this with my LEC and MEC? I talk to them all of the time. I would like to get our furloughs back, and then start hiring some ASA pilots, period.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

GL, FDJ-

You two are the biggest haters of "commuter" pilots I have seen. You miss the bigger picture, all of these aircraft should be flown by DL pilots. Every last airplane that has the DL code should be flown by a DL pilot. Period. Instead of pressing this with your LEC's and MEC's, you sit on this board and hate folks. Hate the game, not the playa baby!

Drunk, I'm not a hater. I don't hate "commuter" pilots. Show me one of my posts that is hateful towards "commuter" pilots as a group. I do admit I have very little regard for the RJDC boyz, but I wouldn't taint all "commuter" pilots with the RJDC label.

By the way, I agree that mainline scope needs to be tightened up, I doubt that will happen in BK, but I'm working hard with my MEC to prevent anymore erossion of this profession. Hopefully we will hold the line on scope and minimize the amount of flying and gauge of aircraft that can be outsourced to contract carriers

 

[180ToTheMarker]

I would like to get our furloughs back, and then start hiring some ASA pilots, period.


Bye Bye--General Lee

If you want the furloughs back, DCI getting more 70 seaters ain't gonna help. I am really starting to believe that these RJs are becoming a union busting tactic. It goes like this: Management says they need more RJs in order to be competetive and have frequency. More RJs means no growth at mainline. Then those said RJs are dangled like a carrot in front of several regional pilot groups and the lowest bid wins. Its a win-win for management. No new pilots at mainline rates and pilots willing to take concessions for growth at the regional level. The way I see it, its a form of union busting. In the meantime, mgmt takes their bonus and runs.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

FDJ-

Very well. But again, the only way for all of us pilots is to be unified against the attacks from managers looking to make more money. Scope of any kind that does not address all flying is near-sighted. DL pilots should fly everything from a 777 to an ATR. Then let the managers do their jobs.

GL-

You say you don't hate, but your underlying attitude you display in your comments does not agree. I guess you and I will agree to disagree on that. We do both agree that the furloughees need to go back to work!

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ-

Very well. But again, the only way for all of us pilots is to be unified against the attacks from managers looking to make more money. Scope of any kind that does not address all flying is near-sighted. DL pilots should fly everything from a 777 to an ATR. Then let the managers do their jobs.

I agree. That would be an ideal outcome, the problem is getting from here to there. It will take a great deal of work and we'll have to work together on this, but, IMHO, the first step is to limit the errossion of mainline scope protections.

 

[Comin-In-Hot]

Why is nobody aking JA the most important question when they have his ear......Why should we take a paycut when Skywest is reporting hugh profits all the time????? .

Actually, that question was asked several times, sorry I didn't include that in what I posted. Anyway, Jerry responded each time with "ASA's 70 costs are the highest in the regional market, and they have to come down in order to allow Skywest to bid 70 flying for ASA. There will not be any additional 70 flying for ASA until this happens". That story, statement, whatever you want to call it, was spoken several times yesterday.

 

[General Lee]

If you want the furloughs back, DCI getting more 70 seaters ain't gonna help. I am really starting to believe that these RJs are becoming a union busting tactic. It goes like this: Management says they need more RJs in order to be competetive and have frequency. More RJs means no growth at mainline. Then those said RJs are dangled like a carrot in front of several regional pilot groups and the lowest bid wins. Its a win-win for management. No new pilots at mainline rates and pilots willing to take concessions for growth at the regional level. The way I see it, its a form of union busting. In the meantime, mgmt takes their bonus and runs.

Some of those 70 seaters would REPLACE 50 seaters. Throwing those 50 seaters on routes that have LCCs is like throwing money into a fire. Maybe we could make more with some of the 70s replacing the 50s. That is what I mean.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

FDJ-

Very well. But again, the only way for all of us pilots is to be unified against the attacks from managers looking to make more money. Scope of any kind that does not address all flying is near-sighted. DL pilots should fly everything from a 777 to an ATR. Then let the managers do their jobs.

GL-

You say you don't hate, but your underlying attitude you display in your comments does not agree. I guess you and I will agree to disagree on that. We do both agree that the furloughees need to go back to work!

The sooner we get the furloughs back, the sooner you will put on a Delta double breasted jacket and look like Iceman from TOP GUN...(joking....?) We don't want to continue to shrink into nothing but 3 777s going to Paris.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rjcap]

Actually, that question was asked several times, sorry I didn't include that in what I posted. Anyway, Jerry responded each time with "ASA's 70 costs are the highest in the regional market, and they have to come down in order to allow Skywest to bid 70 flying for ASA. There will not be any additional 70 flying for ASA until this happens". That story, statement, whatever you want to call it, was spoken several times yesterday.

Then its real simple Jerry, give the 70's to your own kids in Salt Lake.

This guy is on a disinformation campaign. He is no better then G. Grinstein.

 

[79%N1]

Actually, that question was asked several times, sorry I didn't include that in what I posted. Anyway, Jerry responded each time with "ASA's 70 costs are the highest in the regional market, and they have to come down in order to allow Skywest to bid 70 flying for ASA. There will not be any additional 70 flying for ASA until this happens". That story, statement, whatever you want to call it, was spoken several times yesterday.

I understand that was his answer.....but, why do we need to decrease our costs? Because everyone else has? Skywest is making a profit, and they are just trying to make more, on the backs of labor ---- who ironically are the ones making the profits! It just doesnt make sense! What we currently are paid to do this job isnt worth it!

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

WhataSmuck, did I hurt your little feelings?

Of course not, I consider the source and don't worry about anything coming from you cack holster.


I will respond though.

What's the matter with you? Your Grandpa diapers dirty?

 

[~~~^~~~]

The 8% concession doesn't look nice
COEX flying ok

Why is bidding on another ALPA unit's flying look "OK." It isn't. That is what leads to the "8% concession." We should not engage in the same predatory crap other MEC's have engaged in.

You guys are forgetting that all the IP's are getting 70 rates and they will not hang around here if their pay gets cut. If you notice, all the pilots (with one exclusion) going to FedEx and Southwest were IPs. Their skills are more portable than the average line pilot. The IP's can drag this company to a stand still faster than any other group.

Want a pilot to pass a check ride? Then you might want to consider the demands for non seniority list IP's, loss of IP guarantees and 70 seat pay cuts.

Skywest should be at our rates, not the other way around. It is a shame that ALPA has completely lost control of this alter ego mess.

 

[737 Pylt]

Of course not, I consider the source and don't worry about anything coming from you cack holster.

Say what????

I will respond though.

We knew you would!

What's the matter with you? Your Grandpa diapers dirty?

What are you like.....12?? I think I heard that back in elementary school!
Grow up! Your screen name says it all.
737

 

[737 Pylt]

180,

The "yankee boy" comment just sets it up too perfectly! One word: Braves.

-Blucher

HA, can you say.....1st round playof loss!
737

 

[HoserASA]

Then its real simple Jerry, give the 70's to your own kids in Salt Lake.

This guy is on a disinformation campaign. He is no better then G. Grinstein.

Yes, give them to your kids Jerry! Maybe Delta pilots will fly 'em for what Jerry wants. No progress in negotiations this week either. When Jerry shows up in the crew lounge in ATL it'll be the same gloom & doom show. And a bunch of our pilots will fall for the 'sky's falling' performance. Tehy pulled this same crap with the ATRs years ago. Unfortunately, our MEC at the time bought into it.

Hoser

 

[John Pennekamp]

General Lee and FDJ2 seem awfully sure of their strike numbers. That tells me that either they are parroting the line from DALPA, are grossly exaggerating to rattle their sabers, or are MEC members with inside information.

My guess is choice numba 2. Anyone else?

 

[MedFlyer]

If it leads to a strike, well, that is the management's fault. IT may just happen, but no TA will pass with that attached. Count on it.
Bye Bye--General Lee

Two years ago, you told us the DL pilots would never accept a paycut bigger than 13.5%. In the end, you took a 32.5% paycut. Two years ago, when many were predicting bankruptcy for DL, the you insisted bankruptcy would never happen and that US would go under before DL would ever go bankrupty. In the end, DL went bankrupt and US is still here.

If I've learned anything from this board, the General has no ability to predict the future.

 

[ohplease!]

Yes, give them to your kids Jerry! Maybe Delta pilots will fly 'em for what Jerry wants. No progress in negotiations this week either. When Jerry shows up in the crew lounge in ATL it'll be the same gloom & doom show. And a bunch of our pilots will fall for the 'sky's falling' performance. Tehy pulled this same crap with the ATRs years ago. Unfortunately, our MEC at the time bought into it.

Hoser

Are you and I reading the same MEC update emails?

 

[ERJFO]

I never said I was cozy with it. I simply said it would happen. Don't believe it? just watch. I think its terrible for the guys at XJT. I would not want it to happen to me. However, look around. Its happening to EVERY regional group , ASA included in some form (the possible exception being MESA).

This is what is so BS about this job... We have guys that stay up at night and pray they get the COEX flying without even thinking that it's going to put people on the street. And it's not just COEX flying for that matter either. Any flying that's been hijacked has gone from a place where QOL, contract and pay were okay to a place where those things were (in comparison) low(er). I think that guys should stand up and say "I'll only take the COEX flying if I get the same pay and contract the COEX guys got for the flying." Will that happen? No chance, why? Because people show up for class at MESA and *************************s and SkyWest guys "hope" they get AirWhisky's United flying (past tense) and TSA guys "hope" they get Eagle flying.

The deal is, if you work for a place that has taken flying from someone don't say "we don't controll that." Because the bottom line is if your contract and pay cost less than the guys you took it from you do.

 

[OCP]

This is what is so BS about this job... We have guys that stay up at night and pray they get the COEX flying without even thinking that it's going to put people on the street. And it's not just COEX flying for that matter either. Any flying that's been hijacked has gone from a place where QOL, contract and pay were okay to a place where those things were (in comparison) low(er). I think that guys should stand up and say "I'll only take the COEX flying if I get the same pay and contract the COEX guys got for the flying." Will that happen? No chance, why? Because people show up for class at MESA and *************************s and SkyWest guys "hope" they get AirWhisky's United flying (past tense) and TSA guys "hope" they get Eagle flying.

The deal is, if you work for a place that has taken flying from someone don't say "we don't controll that." Because the bottom line is if your contract and pay cost less than the guys you took it from you do.

I agree to an extent. If you've worked for a company for a number of years and your company is bought by another company, and that company is bidding for COEX fling and gives it to your company than there really is nothing that one can do about that.

 

[Rogue5]

I agree to an extent. If you've worked for a company for a number of years and your company is bought by another company, and that company is bidding for COEX fling and gives it to your company than there really is nothing that one can do about that.

Just for grins, what would you like to do if you had the opportunity?

Refuse the upgrade? Quit?

I'm just wondering where your moral high-ground begins and ends when put in this unfortunate position Jerry seems to want to force you into...

 

[HockleyPilot]

The deal is, if you work for a place that has taken flying from someone don't say "we don't controll that." Because the bottom line is if your contract and pay cost less than the guys you took it from you do.

ERJFO, I guess you should resign your post. I'm sure the Mainline Continental pilot felt the same way when E145's replaced md-80's and b727's. It's the same thing.

Regardless, Goodluck XJT

 

[ERJFO]

The deal is, if you work for a place that has taken flying from someone don't say "we don't controll that." Because the bottom line is if your contract and pay cost less than the guys you took it from you do.

ERJFO, I guess you should resign your post. I'm sure the Mainline Continental pilot felt the same way when E145's replaced md-80's and b727's. It's the same thing.

Regardless, Goodluck XJT

Half those CAL guys are scabs anyway... And, it's not the same as flying the SAME airplane for less. You're flying less for less in the case your describing - it makes a little sense.

 

[jbDC9]

Half those CAL guys are scabs anyway... And, it's not the same as flying the SAME airplane for less. You're flying less for less in the case your describing - it makes a little sense.

Nice, mature response there asswipe. Someone throws a bit of reality at you and the best you can come up with is "but, but... they're SCABS!" So that makes it okay for Express Jet to take mainline CAL flying? Super.

Idiot.

 

[hbrow15]

The deal is, if you work for a place that has taken flying from someone don't say "we don't controll that." Because the bottom line is if your contract and pay cost less than the guys you took it from you do.

ERJFO, I guess you should resign your post. I'm sure the Mainline Continental pilot felt the same way when E145's replaced md-80's and b727's. It's the same thing.

Regardless, Goodluck XJT

I'm not sure but when that transition took place wasn't Expressjet then known as Continental Express and owned by Continental as Eagle is owned by American. At the time Mainline and Express had the same MEC so when management says "we need to get rid of md-80's and 727's those routes are better served with RJ's" that was the perfect time for them to be put on mainline. With the same MEC they might as well have merge the list, I dont know for sure, maybe some guys that have been around for awhile would like to chime in, but with CAL pilot list being so close to retireing the COEX guys might have even accepted a staple to the list. Just imagine where we as an industry would be today with all flying in house, Southwest seems to be doing pretty well under that formula. My guess there was a lil "BIG JET" syndrome going on when those decisions were made. Cant say that I would have wanted to go from a 727 to an ERJ but then again it happened anyway I.E flowback........

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Yup, one list of pilots and no ability to whipsaw pilot against pilot. That should be each trunk companys' goal right now as scope/bidding is eroding all of our quality of lives and our pocketbooks. Some believe that it is impossible to merge into one, for those individuals I would say they are right. If you believe something is impossible, then you will not be able to do it!

Many people looked to AE and said they were fools for merging the four companies when they did, since they gave so much for it. But, in that time they were not whipsawed and they saw some stability. Now, they have abandoned the spirit of the merged companies via mgmt attacks and are stuck with whipsaw again. Why? I believe the main reason is that they did not follow through. Merging Simmons et al was only the first step. The next step was to merge with the AA group and then keep all AA flying within. TSA could have joined if they wanted to, but they would have been forced to become AA pilots and sent to the bottom of the list.

 

[~~~^~~~]

General Lee and FDJ2 seem awfully sure of their strike numbers. That tells me that either they are parroting the line from DALPA, are grossly exaggerating to rattle their sabers, or are MEC members with inside information.

My guess is choice numba 2. Anyone else?

Not MEC members. Although we had an LEC member on the board and I forgot who he was. If I'm wrong, they can correct me.

It takes commitment and money to have a strike. ALPA doesn't have either right now. Besides, Grinstien is not Lorenzo. He isn't even Orn'stein.

D ALPA and particularly the "Roar from 44" can pump up some amazing bull effluvia. Many of the Delta pilots eat it like candy. However, the ASA pilots don't have Date of Hire, the RJDC members have not been thrown out of ALPA and sued individually, and ASA employees still have pass benefits. The predicitve credibility of the "Roar from 44" is about zero.

The Northwest Pilots and the Delta Pilots ahve both beat their chests and then found creative ways to act rationally. The arbitration agreement currently in place is part of that "system."

It is like me getting on this board and beating my chest about ALPA's represenational failures. I hope it does some good, but does all the effort amount to anything other than venting?