Skywest, Sapa and Union Busting Law Firm...

[PCL_128]

The Book.. Confessions of a Union Buster is a great read.. it will show you who is capable of what in this country. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_g...=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=union+buster

This should be required reading of every pilot in this business. The tactics that are described in this book are some of the exact things that Ford & Harrison still do to this day. The "labor relations" business is as dirty as they come.

 

[Goose Egg]

PLEASE don't buy into the rhetoric. Just like you dont run out and buy Tide after seeing a Tide commercial on TV, try to use your mind and formulate what is really best for you going forward.

Don't worry, I'm using my brain. And as far as I've been able to detect, both sides have valid points... and both sides have some not-so-valid points. I'm not pro-union, and I'm not pro-company either. I'm pro-career (mine), and so far, I'm not convinced that either side has my best interests at heart. SKW to me is a good place to get in, get my time, and get the freak out. The only thing that appears to be threatening that plan right now is ALPA. I'm not saying that my mind is made up either way, but it does make one think.

-Goose

 

[Tomct]

Don't worry, I'm using my brain. And as far as I've been able to detect, both sides have valid points... and both sides have some not-so-valid points. I'm not pro-union, and I'm not pro-company either. I'm pro-career (mine), and so far, I'm not convinced that either side has my best interests at heart. SKW to me is a good place to get in, get my time, and get the freak out. The only thing that appears to be threatening that plan right now is ALPA. I'm not saying that my mind is made up either way, but it does make one think.

-Goose

Yeah....get my time and move on? You better be prepared for the "worst case scenario!" There were a lot of us that were thinking along those same lines when 9/11 happened! Here's a question for you....where do you want to go? You can BET that where ever it is, THEY HAVE A UNION!! If it is good for you there....it should be good for you now! Think long and hard...Jerry is hoping that all of you will miss the fact that he has been lying to all of us. Lots of red flags, but if it does not concern you...Good Luck with THAT!

 

[s.o.sJTB]

Don't worry, I'm using my brain. And as far as I've been able to detect, both sides have valid points... and both sides have some not-so-valid points. I'm not pro-union, and I'm not pro-company either. I'm pro-career (mine), and so far, I'm not convinced that either side has my best interests at heart. SKW to me is a good place to get in, get my time, and get the freak out. The only thing that appears to be threatening that plan right now is ALPA. I'm not saying that my mind is made up either way, but it does make one think.

-Goose

Thats part of the selfish problem I see with to many of our new F.O's...get my time and get out. Listen I have been at SkyWest for a long time, I plan on staying for a career and with the experience i have seen over the last several years I have decided we need ALPA. Just because you want to get your time and get out dont jeopardize my future for your quick upgrade so that you can eventually go work at an ALPA carrier and enjoy those pay and work rules they fought for!

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Isn't it interesting that the company is seeking help from a 3rd party in their quest to keep us from doing the same. Is it just me or does anyone else think this is hypocritical? This is but another example of management telling us one thing and then doing the opposite. Ever listen to Jerry and Co. talk to the share holders? He paints a pretty rosy picture and then turns around and tells the pilot group that the sky is falling. You ready to bet your future here at Skywest on what these guys are telling you? WAKE UP!

 

[Goose Egg]

Thats part of the selfish problem I see with to many of our new F.O's...get my time and get out.

I don't think it's particularly selfish. It's just an opinion, and it won't keep me from working hard and doing a good job. I'm only saying that I don't plan to be at a regional my entire career. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Listen I have been at SkyWest for a long time, I plan on staying for a career and with the experience i have seen over the last several years I have decided we need ALPA.

Ok, you definitely know more about it than I do, and I actually welcome your input. The thing is, that no one has yet given me any reason why we need a union except "the grass may be greener at a union regional." And if we need a union, why does it have to be ALPA? The way it looks to me is that the same union representing both regionals and majors is a conflict of interest, and weakens ALPAs bargaining power. I'm not saying that SAPA is doing an adequate job (or that they aren't, for that matter), but I just wish there were more facts involved with the arguments that I've been hearing. It's just propaganda either way, and I don't find it particularly convincing.

Just because you want to get your time and get out dont jeopardize my future for your quick upgrade so that you can eventually go work at an ALPA carrier and enjoy those pay and work rules they fought for!

Well, if are you say you are, your future really shouldn't be in jeopardy. I mean, I could say, using the same logic "don't jeopardize my quick upgrade because you want slightly better work rules and slightly higher pay." It works both ways. But then again, I guess that's why my vote counts just as much as yours.

I probably shouldn't worry about it though. If the union comes on, it will be a couple years before the contract gets hammered out, and by then I will hopefully be moving on or at least getting closer to it.

Oh well... politics, religion, and unions...

-Goose

 

[Gobi Gred]

Skywest Pylot, I don't think what the company is doing is necessarily hypocritical, it's just smart business. They are looking out for number 1. Always have, always will. As a pilot group it's our job (not managements) to look out for ourselves and our careers. Unfortunately historically SkyWest pilots have been the absolute worst at doing just that. Will enough our pilots "wake up" in the next month? Based on what I've seen in the past, I'm betting no. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[MYFpilot]

Don't worry, I'm using my brain. And as far as I've been able to detect, both sides have valid points... and both sides have some not-so-valid points. I'm not pro-union, and I'm not pro-company either. I'm pro-career (mine), and so far, I'm not convinced that either side has my best interests at heart. SKW to me is a good place to get in, get my time, and get the freak out. The only thing that appears to be threatening that plan right now is ALPA. I'm not saying that my mind is made up either way, but it does make one think.

-Goose

Bringing in ALPA will have no effect on upgrade times. Upgrade opportunity is a function of growth and attrition. Growth at SkyWest has stopped for the near future. Attrition is running at over 30 pilots (mostly captains) a month, and will not stop or slow anytime soon.

Goose, You are an FO now correct? If and when you upgrade to Captain would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

At your Alaska, Delta, Continental, United, Fedex, Etc. Interview someday there is a good chance you'll get asked this by an Interview Captain... "I see you were at SkyWest during the ALPA drive. Did you participate and were you an ALPA supporter then?"

I'm sure they will be quite happy with, "You know I'm not pro-union, and I'm not pro-company either. I'm pro-career (mine), and so far, I'm not convinced that either side had my best interests at heart. SKW to me was a good place to get in, get my time, and get the freak out. The only thing that appears to be threatening that plan back then was ALPA."

You are an Airline Pilot. I encourage you to participate and take an active interest in your chosen career!

 

[PCL_128]

At your Alaska, Delta, Continental, United, Fedex, Etc. Interview someday there is a good chance you'll get asked this by an Interview Captain... "I see you were at SkyWest during the ALPA drive. Did you participate and were you an ALPA supporter then?"

Alright, I'm all for trying to convince these guys to vote for ALPA, but let's stick to the facts. It would be illegal for an interviewer to ask the above question, or anything similar to it. No company is stupid enough to have interviewers ask these sorts of questions.

There are a million reasons that you should vote for ALPA representation, but fear of being asked about it during an interview isn't one of them.

 

[USCtrojan]

I don't think it's particularly selfish. It's just an opinion, and it won't keep me from working hard and doing a good job. I'm only saying that I don't plan to be at a regional my entire career. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.



Ok, you definitely know more about it than I do, and I actually welcome your input. The thing is, that no one has yet given me any reason why we need a union except "the grass may be greener at a union regional." And if we need a union, why does it have to be ALPA? The way it looks to me is that the same union representing both regionals and majors is a conflict of interest, and weakens ALPAs bargaining power. I'm not saying that SAPA is doing an adequate job (or that they aren't, for that matter), but I just wish there were more facts involved with the arguments that I've been hearing. It's just propaganda either way, and I don't find it particularly convincing.



Well, if are you say you are, your future really shouldn't be in jeopardy. I mean, I could say, using the same logic "don't jeopardize my quick upgrade because you want slightly better work rules and slightly higher pay." It works both ways. But then again, I guess that's why my vote counts just as much as yours.

I probably shouldn't worry about it though. If the union comes on, it will be a couple years before the contract gets hammered out, and by then I will hopefully be moving on or at least getting closer to it.

Oh well... politics, religion, and unions...

-Goose

Goose,

Good luck on moving on. I hope you get that dream job of whatever it is you're looking for. I would say first off, that most of us "don't plan on staying at a Regional." We start out on a career path hoping for that illustrious "heavy int'l flying" (or insert dreamjob here), but things don't always work out the way we want it to. To put it short, Life Happens. Families grow, economics change, and numerous other variables happen that I will just categorize as "life." I love my job, I don't like my leadership team (I'm an ASA pilot.) I digress, however, my point is I want to make it better for those who enter this industry behind me. Your upgrade or future will not depend on a Union Drive. Jerry A. has thrown the book at ASA on Union Busting. He's closed 2 bases, transferred airplanes, reduced our flight benefits and has publicly told ASA pilots that "there would be NO DEAL prior to the SkyW ALPA vote." Additionally, he's opened an ATL base for SkyWest......However, the pendulum is swingin'. We now have a TA mostly due to a Perfect Storm scenario regarding our Negotiations that I won't go into. I don't want you or any other SkyWest pilot to go through what WE have for the last 2 years. I want to put an end to the whipsaw that's been quite obvious after the buyout. The only way to improve things at SkyWest and ASA is to be ONE. ONE group, 4500 pilots strong. Join the fight. Because that's what it is. Your upgrade won't simply depend on a Union Drive. To believe that is exactly what Mgmt. is selling. They haven't been truthful to the ASA pilots since the buyout. Believe what you want to believe. I wish you and the rest of the SkyWest pilots (except SkyNation and HelloNewman) the best. Good luck.

Trojan

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The thing is, that no one has yet given me any reason why we need a union except "the grass may be greener at a union regional."

There is allot of information out there, that it seems you haven't heard. will you take respinsbility and seek out that information?

And if we need a union, why does it have to be ALPA?

When you accpet responsibility for your education on career protection you find that ALPA is already making your life and career better. Why not give to the organization that you are getting career protection from..

Oh well... politics, religion, and unions...

-Goose

unions are poitics... it s your career. you can shrug it off and stick your head in the sand or you can be an active participant in your career. Free Will.

 

[Goose Egg]

Goose, You are an FO now correct? If and when you upgrade to Captain would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

You know, I actually hadn't thought about it that way. You make good point, and oddly enough, my choice suprises me when you put it in that context.

At your Alaska, Delta, Continental, United, Fedex, Etc. Interview someday there is a good chance you'll get asked this by an Interview Captain... "I see you were at SkyWest during the ALPA drive. Did you participate and were you an ALPA supporter then?"

I would say that yes, I participated in making myself informed on the issue (which is what I'm in the process of doing now,) and made the best decision I could with the information that I had available to me, which is what I intend to do.

And I'd be very surprised if I ever got an interview offer from Delta.

We start out on a career path hoping for that illustrious "heavy int'l flying" (or insert dreamjob here), but things don't always work out the way we want it to. To put it short, Life Happens. Families grow, economics change, and numerous other variables happen that I will just categorize as "life."

Very true, and I'm not saying that it won't happen to me. Personally, I really don't care about "heavy int'l flying." But yes, life definitely does happen, and I can't really predict what will happen. I don't know what to say about it except that's the risk we all run... But it's not going to keep me from making the attempt. And who knows, maybe ALPA is what is needed to make SKW a "career" airline. I'd just like to get some facts rather than the propaganda that seems to abound. That's all I'm trying to say.

Anyway, I think I'm done posting about this until I can get my hands on some real information. Then I'll be able to speak about this in a more intelligent manner. If anyone has any good factual resources they'd like to share, I'm all ears. Dang, where's a town meeting when you need one.


-Goose

 

[CoATP]

"I don't care. I just want to get my time and get out. A union can't help me."

If that's true then I guess you vote for a union in your last job. One question...How do you know it's your last job?

Apathy is management's tool. Vote yes, Vote no .. doesn't matter JUST VOTE!!!

 

[shamrock]

Would SkyWest hiring Ford and Harrison be an example of the "best practices" concept in airline mergers and acquisitions?

 

[Hypoxik]

When will the vote open for ALPA @ SKW?

 

[Doberman]

Tomorrow I think, still waiting on exact instructions...but they are getting my vote!

 

[GearBayOverheat]

Anybody who doesn't get their voting instructions by the 15th PLEASE contact someone from the OC. www.skywestalpa.org

 

[WMT]

Over the last couple of months I have been seriously debating over the vote for or against ALPA. I have been to the free lunches offered and have spoken to many of the organizing members. I also have a negative experience with unions from my last job. I can honestly say that I have been on the fence since the inception of the union drive.

I am a new hire (7months) and had to deal with the chief pilot (RG) on couple issues and he has been very professional and helpful towards my needs. I recently flew with a captain (AA) who is an OC member and i really respected his opinion on the whole culture here at OO. I believe that unions are necessities at some companies and not really required at other companies. The OC member i flew with simply asked me if my career was worth the risk of voting no and if I would trust SAPA to protect my needs.

I will be voting for the union this week.

 

[regionaltard]

......Much of the communication that's purportedly from management has been shown to have actually originated with Ford & Harrison...........

That's only partially true. The scumbags at F & H work hand in hand with public relations firms like Golin Harris et al. Here's a sample of the sort of work they do:

International Shipping Company - Labor Negotiations

Situation

An international shipping company faced a major labor dispute. Contract negotiations between the company and
the Airline Pilots Association (ALPA) were grid locked. The ALPA planned to strike during the critical holiday
season, which would seriously impact the company’s operations and lead to a significant loss of revenue.

Strategy

Our team employed Personal Values Profiles® (PVP), a proprietary qualitative technique,
to gain in-depth knowledge of the pilots’ sentiment and viewpoint – and to identify areas
where effective communication could lead to a favorable conclusion to the contract
negotiations. After a series of pilot interviews, the team identified a key finding: the
pilots were not united. In fact, there was a group of pro-company pilots, who sought to
undermine serious contract talks.

Tactics/Results

Based on that key finding and other valuable information, we identified a senior
executive with extensive piloting experience to act as the key communicator, delivering
corporate messages to the pilots. We also arranged several meetings with pilots,
fostering an informal environment, enabling executives to spend time listening to pilot
grievances and share their thoughts about the direction of the company. This setting
also allowed pro-company pilots to speak out and influence certain key ALPA members.
Our results proved the success of the PVP® strategy. Pro-company pilots won the support of other pilots and
spurred an anti-union sentiment. ALPA withdrew its plan to strike and a favorable contract was negotiated.

 

[ASAFOE120]

To all of you who are hoping for a quick upgrade or to get on with a regional and move on quickly, you do realize that the age 65 rule is coming right? And you also realize that will pretty much mean a 5 year seat lock right?

Just keep that in mind when voting time comes.