Skywest, Sapa and pressuring pilots to fly

[PCL_128]

No, the membership does NOT vote for the MEC (Master executive council). They are elected by the various LEC's (local executive councils).

Not true. The MEC is made up of two groups of members: the MEC Officers (Chair, Vice-Chair, Sec-Treasurer) and the MEC Members. The MEC Officers have no votes on the MEC, and are basically there to serve the purpose of running the union on a day-to-day basis. They are elected by the Members of the MEC. Whenever decisions are made, they are made by the MEC Members, not the Officers. The MEC Members are elected by the pilots, because the Members are made up of the Status Reps that you elect at your LECs. Any votes on the MEC are only made by these guys. The Officers that aren't elected by the pilots don't get any votes.

The LEC's lend themselves to cronyism by a percentage based voting system. The bigger the base, the "more" a LEC members vote counts. And here's the kicker . . .they can "split" their vote, i.e. 60% of their vote for one guy, 30% for another, 10% for one more. This way they can look "impartial" and still let their bud of 15 years stay in the MEC chair.

Again, not true. Article IV, Section 5 of the Constitution and By-Laws prohibits MEC Members from using a roll-call vote for election of Officers. Roll call votes are allowed on other issues, but Officer elections only allow one vote for each Member.

 

[PCL_128]

ALPA IS bad at Mesa, so yes, you shouldn't work at Mesa and expect them to do anything other than take your money and tell you they can't do anything about your crummy airline.

So if you thought the union was so bad at MAG, did you get involved to improve it? Did you run for office? Did you chair an important committee?

 

[Soverytired]

So if you thought the union was so bad at MAG, did you get involved to improve it? Did you run for office? Did you chair an important committee?

Arrrghhhh!!!!! This "reasoning" drives me nuts. All good that ALPA does is because of our national unity, brotherhood and power. All bad things that happen at Mesa ALPA are the fault of the membership not getting involved enough.

Neat trick, eh? I forked over $10k, but that apparently wasn't enough for and ALPA laywer and a union rep when I really needed it. But that's my fault, because I didn't "volunteer".

Look, I voted against the TA, and was DYING to hit a picket line and strike.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Soverytired... you just got schooled.

Looks like you don't take responsibility for your career. I am sure you are a great pilot. You study the FARs/AIM/COM/AFM etc... you know your stuff....when it comes to flying..

But when it comes to career management it seems you don't spend much time, yet this is where your career earnings, quality of life and retirement all come into play..

Why would you do that?

 

[Soverytired]

Not true. The MEC is made up of two groups of members: the MEC Officers (Chair, Vice-Chair, Sec-Treasurer) and the MEC Members. The MEC Officers have no votes on the MEC, and are basically there to serve the purpose of running the union on a day-to-day basis. They are elected by the Members of the MEC. Whenever decisions are made, they are made by the MEC Members, not the Officers. The MEC Members are elected by the pilots, because the Members are made up of the Status Reps that you elect at your LECs. Any votes on the MEC are only made by these guys. The Officers that aren't elected by the pilots don't get any votes.

Again, not true. Article IV, Section 5 of the Constitution and By-Laws prohibits MEC Members from using a roll-call vote for election of Officers. Roll call votes are allowed on other issues, but Officer elections only allow one vote for each Member.

Let's keep this simple:

1. Who votes in the MEC president. A direct vote from the membership, or someone else?

2. MEC officer elections are one member-one vote (I didn't know that). But it IS accurate to say that on pretty much every other issue the LEC's get a secret ballot by which they can split up their representational votes however they want?

----->That's nice . . . because when you ask your LEC why something passed or failed, they can truthfully say they both voted for and against it? This seems reasonable to you?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Arrrghhhh!!!!! This "reasoning" drives me nuts. All good that ALPA does is because of our national unity, brotherhood and power. All bad things that happen at Mesa ALPA are the fault of the membership not getting involved enough.

Neat trick, eh? I forked over $10k, but that apparently wasn't enough for and ALPA laywer and a union rep when I really needed it. But that's my fault, because I didn't "volunteer".

Look, I voted against the TA, and was DYING to hit a picket line and strike.

Sovertyired.... you don't need to run for office your volunteer, but at least you need to be informed and educated... and you've shown that you aren't up to speed as you should be...

 

[Soverytired]

Soverytired... you just got schooled.

Looks like you don't take responsibility for your career. I am sure you are a great pilot. You study the FARs/AIM/COM/AFM etc... you know your stuff....when it comes to flying..

But when it comes to career management it seems you don't spend much time, yet this is where your career earnings, quality of life and retirement all come into play..

Why would you do that?

Thanks for the concern. I put my money where my mouth is and took a job at a non-ALPA carrier. And I can assure you, if and when the union vote ever comes, it ain't gonna be ALPA.

PCL educates, but he avoids the main issue at hand, which is that the MEC president ISN'T elected by the membership... making him very difficult to remove. The LEC officers can split their votes on MOST issues, effectively voting both FOR and AGAINST the same items on a ballot.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Thanks for the concern. I put my money where my mouth is and took a job at a non-ALPA carrier. And I can assure you, if and when the union vote ever comes, it ain't gonna be ALPA.

PCL educates, but he avoids the main issue at hand, which is that the MEC president ISN'T elected by the membership... making him very difficult to remove. The LEC officers can split their votes on MOST issues, effectively voting both FOR and AGAINST the same items on a ballot.

There is a reason why the membership doesn't elect the president. Just as you didn't know how the organizational structure doesn't work..so do most of the members. Sorry to say it but to put that much responsibility into the membership would reckless. Maybe when the membership get more involved and educated. In fact i think a mature and repsonsible membership would have the skill set to change the Bylaws to allow just that...

 

[PCL_128]

1. Who votes in the MEC president. A direct vote from the membership, or someone else?

There's no such thing as an MEC "president." If we're going to debate the structure of a union, let's at least get the terminology right. I assume you're referring to the MEC Chairman, who is one of the MEC Officers that I discussed earlier. He is elected by the Status Reps that make up the Members of the MEC. Each status rep gets only one vote.

However, your focus on the MEC Chairman is misplaced, and demonstrates that you lack some understanding as to how ALPA functions. The Master Chairman is mostly a figurehead at the MEC level. He is more important at the National level where he sits on the Executive Board, but at the MEC level he has very little power. He's great for going around and making speeches, sending out press releases, and being the most visible element of the MEC leadership, but he has very little real power. Everything that the Master Chairman does is directed by the MEC Members, and they are elected by you.

2. MEC officer elections are one member-one vote (I didn't know that). But it IS accurate to say that on pretty much every other issue the LEC's get a secret ballot by which they can split up their representational votes however they want?

No, that's also incorrect. If a Member of the MEC requests a roll call ballot on an issue (which has to be done to split up a vote), then that roll call vote is prohibited from being a secret ballot. You can reference Article VI, Section 5, Paragraph 2 in the Constitution & ByLaws for that. Any roll call ballot is listed in the meeting minutes along with how many votes each Member cast.

 

[PCL_128]

Neat trick, eh? I forked over $10k, but that apparently wasn't enough for and ALPA laywer and a union rep when I really needed it. But that's my fault, because I didn't "volunteer".

Look, if you want to attack the union structure at Mesa, then I find it hypocritical if you didn't get involved to change it for the better. Your $10k is only the beginning of your responsibilities to the Association and the profession. You are also responsible for being informed, and taking action if you feel that something isn't right. Sitting back and attacking the Association while refusing to do anything about it doesn't make much sense.

Look, I voted against the TA, and was DYING to hit a picket line and strike.

That's wonderful, but a majority of your fellow pilots disagreed with you. Your issue seems to be with democracy.