Skywest, Rapid City

[mother fokker]

I heard Skywest had an incident in Rapid City, on 1/20??? Luckily every one on board was o.k. The A.C. substained significant damage. Anyone that confirm or deny this rumour?

 

[xjcaptain]

This it? Just curious if they are CAT II? 1/4 mile observation taken 2 minutes after incident.

NTSB Identification: CHI04IA056
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of SKYWEST AIRLINES INC (D.B.A. Skywest Airlines)
Incident occurred Sunday, January 18, 2004 in Rapid City, SD
Aircraft: Bombardier CL-600-2B19, registration: N595SW
Injuries: 35 Uninjured.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On January 17, 2004, at about 2209 mountain standard time, a Bombardier CL-600-2B19, operated by Skywest Airlines, as flight 3855, contacted the runway with the left wing tip, while landing on runway 32 (8,701 feet by 150 feet, dry concrete) at the Rapid City Regional Airport (RAP), Rapid City, South Dakota. The airplane received minor damage to the wing tip. The captain, copilot, flight attendant, and 32 passengers were not injured. The 14 CFR Part 121 scheduled passenger flight was operating in instrument meteorological conditions on an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan. The flight originated from Salt Lake City, Utah, at 2035.

The crew had flown the ILS runway 32 approach into RAP just prior to the incident. The air traffic control tower at RAP was closed a the time of landing. Flight 3855 was in contact with Ellsworth Air Force Base approach control.

A special flight permit which was completed after the incident states, "Crew said when they landed they were heavy with ice, and got no flare on landing. Landed pretty hard capt said and had contact on runway with lt wing tip."

Inspection of the airplane on the following afternoon, revealed 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch of rime ice was visible on the tail, windshield wipers, and unprotected areas of the airframe.

The RAP weather observation were recorded as:

Observation Time: 2211 mst
Wind: 070 degrees at 6 knots
Visibility: 1/4 statute miles with freezing fog
Sky Condition: Indefinate 100 feet
Temperature: -2 degrees Celsius
Dew Point: -2 degrees Celsius
Pressure: 30.13 inches of mercury

 

[regionalcap]

I do not work for Skywest but last week in DFW the fog had the weather down to Cat. II minimums. The controller asked the Skywest pilot if he could accept a Cat. II approach and he said "Yes".

 

[TriJet]

CAT II

Yes they are

 

[propjob27]

I can vouch for that.

SkyWest is CAT II. 1200 RVR, I did several into SMF while I flew there.

 

[CaptainBrazilia]

I do not work for Skywest but last week in DFW the fog had the weather down to Cat. II minimums. The controller asked the Skywest pilot if he could accept a Cat. II approach and he said "Yes".

So?

SkyWest RJ crews are all qualified Cat II.

 

[rightrudder]

The approach at KRAP is not a cat II approach, it is Cat I. The mins for that approach are 1/2 mile.

 

[chperplt]

The mins for that approach are 1/2 mile.

Or they could have used RVR since that runway has it.

 

[trip]

What everyone is implying here but have not came right and said
is 'what is Skywest doing shooting approachs with wx below mins?' The wx was likley above min's when the approach was started 5-6 minutes or more prior to the 22:11 observation noted in the report. Fog conditions can change rapidly. The Ellsworth approach may have had RVR reports as well I dont know for sure. I do recall one airport with RVR being available from approach and no tower on the field is at ACV CA. The NTSB report also stated dry concrete. The light quatering tail wind was probably was not a big concern at the time although somthing to keep in mind.

Of bigger concern is the number of times I have heard of CRJ's having no elevator authority when flaring with ice on the tail. Is this true with any other jets?

Lets give them some respect until this gets sorted out.

 

[chperplt]

I did not know a pilot could get a RVR reading from a closed tower.

Not from the tower, but they certainly can from the controlling agency. They were talking to an approach controller who has that info handy.

 

[Russ]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone started playing judge and jury. You wouldn't be employed for long if you tried to divurt every flight that encountered approaches to minimums.

 

[Bako Cap]

NO tower needed....

ACV doesn't have a control tower at all but Oakland Center has real time RVR capabilities. Not sure about KRAP though, I always went in with the tower open.

 

[strega7]

The "digital" RVR (the new stuff) is provided via Seattle Center for both touchdown and rollout at KACV. And the control tower will be constructed within a few years.

Fly Safe

 

[J32driver]

Haven't heard of any other RJ's having tail icing problems. Can you please give specific examples. (I fly the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed thing and I'm interested)



Censored.... What the h-e-l-l is that? All I said was d-a-m-n!!!!

 

[Steeler Fan]

Re: RVR with a Closed Tower?

Further when reading the reported weather, and considering the winter weather, did the crew know what the braking action was? so with this in mind, why would a crew perform the 32ILS with the winds noted at 070 @ 6? CRoss wind on a slippery runway? etc. Bad choice from what I read here. As a dispatcher I would have diverted the flight to the alternate long before the approach was started. JMHO

I know some carriers have different x-wind limits based on braking action, but I don't know how many dispatchers would have been spring loaded to divert a flight because of a 6 knot crosswind and wx at minimums. Even Cat II and Cat III's have a 10-15 kt crosswind limit, depending on who you work for.

Has anybody else worked at a place like that? I have a tremendous amount of respect for dispatchers, so maybe I misread what outermarket was saying...

I don't know if that plane is an ice-magnet, because that seemed like the main problem. I feel bad for them and I'm glad nobody was hurt>

 

[Russ]

SkyWest CATII x-wind limits are 10Kts. Well within the x-wind stated.

 

[Russ]

If you are making your comments on the strength of what you read here without knowledge of SkyWest operations, runway conditions and dozens of other parameters then you had no credible basis for coming to any intelligent conclusion.

Never criticise an incident crew, especially so when admittedly you don't have all the information needed to offer an accurate and intelligent decision. Learn from what happened and remember it could be you next time.

But for the grace of God, there go I....

 

[Russ]

"Bad choice from what I read here"

If thats not judgement, then please inform me as to what it is. While your at it, also tell me how the above quote aids in educating the masses as to what a dispatcher does.

I was not involved, I do not have all the info required to come to a finding. You have based entirely on what info is available on a web site.
Jumping to a conclusion should be left to the media, not from one who claims to be a professional member of aviation.

Ask yourself if you had to use your real name would you use the same quote as you used or would prudence dictate otherwise?

 

[Hawker rider]

Inspection of the airplane on the following afternoon, revealed 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch of rime ice was visible on the tail, windshield wipers, and unprotected areas of the airframe.

Anybody read this sentence in the report? From standin overnight there can be quite a bit of accumulation that did not necessarily have anything to do with the incident flight.

I'm not going to jump to conclusions here, I'll wait until the final report comes out to give my 2 cents worth.

 

[emb120]

Monday Morning QB's

Hey guys, each airline has their own set of Jepps which aren't the same as the ones you get from your own airline or subscription. Unless you are looking at a Skywest issued approack chart, you have no idea what his minimums are for the approach. It's easy to question someone's judgement sitting in front of your computer with both feet on the ground.