Puck Mugger
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2005
- Posts
- 166
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
SkyWest Pilots vote No
- Thread starter Socalplt
- Start date
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Mookie said:
Naming names? I name Lawson and Ford at Comair all the time about their RJDC rants. I said the first name of your chief pilot, not his last. He sounds like he is representing you guys "Really well"---NOT. Do you think there was a conflict of interest having a SAPA negotiator (someone negotiating AGAINST the company) placed as the chief pilot (a management stooge) of your biggest base? You don't? Hey, don't ask any questions and maybe it will go away......I know you want people to think your airline has NO problems.... But hey, you voted no and we will see what your company does next. And, you're right about my company having problems, but my situation really isn't that bad. My ATL to HNL 6 day trips should be nice this Winter.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Mookie
luckiest man alive
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2002
- Posts
- 879
I'm not based there...and have never heard anything about the guy good or bad. I'm sure that there are several AlPa reps at other companies that became Chief Pilots as well...in fact, I know it happened at PSA while I was there, and it will probably happen again here someday. If you feel that is' necesary to air it...it's a free country. It's also my right to point out that's it's in bad taste.
Have fun in HNL...I'll be kicking it on the slopes in DEN...to each his own.
Mookie
Have fun in HNL...I'll be kicking it on the slopes in DEN...to each his own.
Mookie
PBRstreetgang
Registered Abuser
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Posts
- 3,241
General Tool,General Lee said:
Since I usually disagree with you totally, I will open up with this YOU ARE RIGHT. You are starting to get it, SKYW formed SAPA as a communication tool for managment to talk to the pilot group, they pay more than 600k a year to run SAPA(or so I hear). Now you see how it works, you work real hard as a SAPA player, deliver something of real value(70 for 50 seat pay), bingo Cheif pilot job drops into your lap, reward for services rendered. They tell us to "SUK IT" every time they issue the paychecks, and I bet they snicker about how easy it was to pull the pilots sphincters over their eyes.
SAPA dispenses the kool-aid via state of the art Slurpee/Frostee machines that are suspiciously similar to the frozen margarita machines at many fine mexican food eateries. For a measly 600K they get tremendous value in terms of workrule/policy manual screwings.
I think for the first time SKYW mgmt has made a very large tactical mistake, in their greed to acquire larger airframes they agreed to take furloughed UAL pilots, these pilots are not as sucecptable to the siren song of the kool-aid and have been poisoning/educating the newhires about the realities they are experiencing. As a quick followup, every newhire that I have flown with that went through training for free is totally pissed that they are now paying while in training, and wonder where their retro pay is. I think the company is now realizing that the union is on their doorstep and are trying to slide as many tidbits to their side of the table before that becomes impossible. As to the 50-99 agreement, the kool-aid swillers screwed all of us, I voted no and am not 70 qualified, nor will I ever be with this pay scale.
Gen. open your eyes and take note you can watch your payscale move down to ours or you can join forces with us and bring ours toward yours, choice is yours. I think you might be able to see which way the scales have been sliding lately and I can safely bet which way mgmt wants the scales to slide.
Now back to your regularly scheduled rant!
PBR
Rogue5
Adult Swim junkie
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2002
- Posts
- 882
General Lee said:
Just to clarify: T.F. was a SAPA rep, got the SLC chief pilot job, and was thus forced to resign his SAPA post. He is not currently involved with SAPA in any way.
Current conflict of interst? No. Slimey move to kiss SGU butt and weasel into a CP job? Yup.
Waiting patiently for the next vote,
R5
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
PBRstreetgang said:
PMSr,
I was told by a 4th floor management guy in ATL that the reason they wanted to push the lower 100 seat wage on us, via the judge, was so they COULD GET REGIONAL RATES DOWN TOO. He said that was one of their main objectives. Now, Jetblue started it (their management implemented it on them I guess...with no union....), and now a judge may do that to us. The guy said "They can't make more than you guys, they fly smaller planes." You are next. Your paycuts are coming, and I am not pleased about it, but all of our management's are in it together probably. They will be the ones with bonuses.
Bye Bye--General Lee
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
(o) (o) said:
Did I say we didn't have internal problems at DL? We ran out of cash. There you have it. I can't debate anything but Delta problems? Thanks Vladimir Putin. But, nothing could be wrong on your cloud in paradise....Get over your bad self. Atleast your pilots voted no to that offer. I still can't believe you all voted for 99 seat airplanes at 50 seat rates. That needs to be changed pronto. You should be happy somebody else "cares" like I do. Most of you are in a daze, enjoying the new growth. Your senior pilots voted no on the last deal, and everyone else who was straight out of Riddle voted for it. I bet Atkin and Reber gave eachother major high fives! (Oh wait, I can't say names on any SkyWest subject.....)
Bye Bye--General Lee
Rogue5
Adult Swim junkie
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2002
- Posts
- 882
Hey General, do yourself a favor and step away from the computer: You sound more hysterical with every post.
No one here cares to hear what you have to say nearly as much as you apparently do so why not just cut out the middle-man, stand in front of a mirror, and have your little estrogen-fits face-to-face.
Otherwise, speak with your doctor and get your meds adjusted...
No one here cares to hear what you have to say nearly as much as you apparently do so why not just cut out the middle-man, stand in front of a mirror, and have your little estrogen-fits face-to-face.
Otherwise, speak with your doctor and get your meds adjusted...
Last edited:
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
regionaltard
seat lock
- Joined
- May 22, 2005
- Posts
- 951
homerjdispatch
Gods gift to dispatch
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2003
- Posts
- 1,250
Puck Mugger
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2005
- Posts
- 166
synchoff said:
In house union. LOL. That would be very effective. You could collect enough in dues to have pizza party every fiscal quarter.
How do you propose funding aeromedical. legal. representation, legislation/lobbying, E&FA, Research, Air Safety, etc, etc, etc.
Based on what do you issue a blanket statement like " Screw ALPA". Obviously it is not extensive exposure and experience in the airline arena.
capt. megadeth
Metal Momma!
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
- 2,898
Puck Mugger said:
Well, gee, where is their aeromedical, legal, representation, legislation/lobbying, E&FA, Research, Air Safety, etc. etc. now? Duh, they don't have any!!!!!
You have to start somewhere and sure the beginning may suck a$$ but I think an in-house union is better for a regional than ALPA. As a matter of fact, it would be nice to have a regional level national union. It has to start somewhere.
~~~^~~~
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Posts
- 6,137
I'm impressed with the SkyWest pilots' vote and proud to be on board. Any chance the ALPA members at ASA can join SAPA. I'm only half joking...
ALPA spends so much on their National Bureaucracy and fighting lawsuits that their mainline MECs' get them in to that I don't think ALPA National is the fiscal powerhouse it might have been. After all, every couple of years a mainline lawsuit gets going and cleans them out for some kind of malfeasance. Miller v. ALPA (mainline Delta pilots sued ALPA) and Duke v. ALPA, the settlements from sexual harassment complaints out of the Delta MEC and I think ALPA even defended one of the Delta MEC's income tax audit.
Unless ALPA grows a pair and starts fighting alter ego proliferation by acting as a union (bringing pilots together) it will be time to dump the worthless organization.
ALPA spends so much on their National Bureaucracy and fighting lawsuits that their mainline MECs' get them in to that I don't think ALPA National is the fiscal powerhouse it might have been. After all, every couple of years a mainline lawsuit gets going and cleans them out for some kind of malfeasance. Miller v. ALPA (mainline Delta pilots sued ALPA) and Duke v. ALPA, the settlements from sexual harassment complaints out of the Delta MEC and I think ALPA even defended one of the Delta MEC's income tax audit.
Unless ALPA grows a pair and starts fighting alter ego proliferation by acting as a union (bringing pilots together) it will be time to dump the worthless organization.
Last edited:
synchoff said:
This was attempted about a year and a half ago. The big problem here is funding. The day you vote in a inhouse union you have Zero $$ in the bank to start working on a new contract. With all the problems with ALPA they are still the one with the resources available to help get the ball rolling. I think during the last union drive someone mentioned that it would cost several million to get the first contract done.
I don't see what's so wrong about General Lee's comments...
He's right about T.F. and it's true that there's too many Kool-Aid drinkers in SGU.
You can debate any points he makes, but I don't think childish answers will prove him wrong.
Having said that, I'm glad the NO vote made it by a big margin, and can't wait to see what RR and BH will have to say about it (probably another dooms day speech).
He's right about T.F. and it's true that there's too many Kool-Aid drinkers in SGU.
You can debate any points he makes, but I don't think childish answers will prove him wrong.
Having said that, I'm glad the NO vote made it by a big margin, and can't wait to see what RR and BH will have to say about it (probably another dooms day speech).
~~~^~~~
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Posts
- 6,137
So Cal:
So lets say ASA and SkyWest have 4,000 pilots with an average income of $50,000. ( I think the average with senior Captains is a lot higher at ASA, but I like easy math )
A 2% dues assessment nets $4,000,000.00 a year. We should be able to do better than ALPA does with their investments since we don't have to play in Kitty Hawk, the offshore accounts, ULICO and other AFL-CIO schemes.
I'm thinking we are close to a critical mass. Probably there are quite a few other carriers who are willing to let the Delta and NW boys have the union they hijacked with the United Pilots. The Continental, Northwest and FedEx guys will remain. But I bet Mesaba, whats left of the US Air Wholly Owneds, Eagle, CHQ and perhaps COEX would consider joining the party.
Even better, lets get the SkyWest pilots in ALPA, try to get the COEX guys away from Duane's golden cool aid and see if we can organize a take over of ALPA at the next BOD
Let's Roll! :O
So lets say ASA and SkyWest have 4,000 pilots with an average income of $50,000. ( I think the average with senior Captains is a lot higher at ASA, but I like easy math )
A 2% dues assessment nets $4,000,000.00 a year. We should be able to do better than ALPA does with their investments since we don't have to play in Kitty Hawk, the offshore accounts, ULICO and other AFL-CIO schemes.
I'm thinking we are close to a critical mass. Probably there are quite a few other carriers who are willing to let the Delta and NW boys have the union they hijacked with the United Pilots. The Continental, Northwest and FedEx guys will remain. But I bet Mesaba, whats left of the US Air Wholly Owneds, Eagle, CHQ and perhaps COEX would consider joining the party.
Even better, lets get the SkyWest pilots in ALPA, try to get the COEX guys away from Duane's golden cool aid and see if we can organize a take over of ALPA at the next BOD
Let's Roll! :OWings, you may have good intentions, but don't start that crap, not even joking!
That's what happened last time ALPA vs in house, and it created enough diversion that nothing was voted in. There were enough fence sitters that SAPA and management won. If you want to mininize the whipsaw, don't derail the current drive.
That's what happened last time ALPA vs in house, and it created enough diversion that nothing was voted in. There were enough fence sitters that SAPA and management won. If you want to mininize the whipsaw, don't derail the current drive.
PBRstreetgang
Registered Abuser
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Posts
- 3,241
GenTool,General Lee said:
Do you actually look at you flightplan past the first fix, the logic you use would only make sense to my dog(see pic to left, port if you are a squid). First they get the high cost groups(you), then they work on the rest(us), if you think the pilot rates at your org. are the only costs they are after, think again, they will get your pension, then the 401(k) match down to 2-5%, your workrules, if you want a preview, check in with a UAL narrow body guy and check his schedule. The UAL guys are flying FAR's as a limit. Do you really think those sweet 6day HNL trips will stay sweet? They will move the crew hotel a couple of miles upslope, (probabaly next to a meth lab) you will have a sweet 35 min drive to the hotel, 20 mins to check in, and 7:05 behind the door, so much for catching a few waves. Since our buddies at Jetblue are soon going to be doing transcon out and back locals, you guys will probabally catch some of that too as soon as needlewhatever pays those feds off to get the duty limits changed. I cannot believe how foolish you are, I hope you are typing after a sixer or so, 'cause if you are sober you are too dumb to ride a skateboard, much less fly a plane. You are really too foolish, SKYW was having trouble filling classes so the payrates are getting close to the minimums for the junior guys, and when the slashing and burning at DAL etal finishes, the explosive growth will slow tremendously and there will be no upgrades and then no new meat for planes. You keep your head in the sand and wait, your wages will be closer to my wages sooner rather later. Just realize I can go out and find a job at similar wages to what I am currently making, can you say the same?
Have another beer and a shot, while you can still afford them
PBR
PBRstreetgang
Registered Abuser
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Posts
- 3,241
Gentoolbox,
I am not sure what you what you ment by PMSr. The way it reads is PM Sr as opposed to PM Jr, and I do prefer Nyquil with some club soda and a couple of ice cubes. If you were trying to imply something relating to PMS, I think PMSer would be more applicable, but that's just me. Although PMS'r might have also been ok too. I hope you don't need this much help with the FMS, OAK D HNL can't be that hard though.
P B R
I am not sure what you what you ment by PMSr. The way it reads is PM Sr as opposed to PM Jr, and I do prefer Nyquil with some club soda and a couple of ice cubes. If you were trying to imply something relating to PMS, I think PMSer would be more applicable, but that's just me. Although PMS'r might have also been ok too. I hope you don't need this much help with the FMS, OAK D HNL can't be that hard though.
P B R
Last edited:
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
PBRstreetgang said:
PMSfingerbang,
Hey, I married rich, ok. I can still afford it all. I enjoy this industry and I enjoy debate on this board. I have moved up 2500 numbers in 1 year, and I can hold larger equipment now, and have about the same pay as before, which isn't that bad at all. Will the HNL layovers be worse? How do you know where we stay now? You have no clue buddy. You and your SkyWest buddies agreed to a terrible, horrible agreement that ruined the regional industry---allowing 99 seats for 50 seat wages. And what will you do about it pal? NOTHING. Voted no.... Great. Now what? You can't even answer that. But wait, SkyWest will come to you all and say that "the United contract is in JEOPARDY." Then, after you vote yes for 100 seaters for Brasilia wages, the new United Contract will be ready to go by 7am the next morning. Those lawyers must have been negotiating ALL NIGHT LONG. (oh wait, that is what happened last time, my mistake)
Mahalo!!!
Bye Bye--General Lee
Last edited:
ArcticFlier
SpdmodehdgmodebugV21/2bnk
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2002
- Posts
- 901
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
PBRstreetgang
Registered Abuser
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Posts
- 3,241
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
PBRstreetgang said:
My Mom always said "It is just as easy to marry a rich girl as a poor one." She was right. I knew if I hung around the Kellogg school of Business in Chicago long enough (when I was flying Brasilias for Midway Connection in Chicago) I would hook myself a good one.
And, when I need "larger equipment", I go see Alice (Cialis).
You got my "goat?" Where are you from? Cyprus?
Bye Bye--General Lee
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
