Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
Skywest or Comair
- Thread starter Col.Hogan
- Start date
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Col Hogan,
If you want to eventually possibly end up with Delta, go to Skywest. Otherwise, Comair is probably the stronger airline and has plenty of growth ahead. Both airlines fly coast to coast, so there is some variety. Both have CRJ's, with Comair having some of the larger 70 seat version. Skywest may be looking at bigger planes---like 717's or 737's---especially if United folds or closes key bases like LAX or DEN. It's your choice.....
Bye Bye---General Lee
If you want to eventually possibly end up with Delta, go to Skywest. Otherwise, Comair is probably the stronger airline and has plenty of growth ahead. Both airlines fly coast to coast, so there is some variety. Both have CRJ's, with Comair having some of the larger 70 seat version. Skywest may be looking at bigger planes---like 717's or 737's---especially if United folds or closes key bases like LAX or DEN. It's your choice.....
Bye Bye---General Lee
Comair is a great company Col Hogan, and right now they are over-staffed CRJ pilots, but won't be in three months when Bombardier gets back up to speed. If you want to fly for a great regional airline with a solid future, go to Comair. If you want to fly for Delta later, come to Comair. Don't let General Lee scare you into thinking no Comair pilots will go to Delta. Even if the pilots had their self-proclaimed omnipotence and their propoganda was true that you'd never get a job at Delta through Comair, wait until the lists are one-in-the-same and you can just bid into the 767.
Let me tell you what little I know about Skywest. Firstly they have a huge amount of aircraft in UAL colors. We all know whats up with United, and recently United has stated it will no longer pay the incredible fees per departure for its regionals which means lower profits for airlines such as Skywest, ACA, and CHQ. The airlines tend to follow what their competitors do, so it'd be safe to say Delta will also decrease the fee. Secondly Skywest seems to be toying with larger aircraft such as the 737 or 717, which are unable to fly as a part of the UAL or DAL ticketing system. While it seems to be the popular view on these forums to fly the biggest thing you can find, this news means risk. Add that to the fact that Skywest will be paid much less for each departure, and you have a situation where hiring may slow down, or stop. On the other hand, you could get on a Skywest and they get the 717's and make a ton of money and grow into a major, but that seems highly unlikely.
Comair is a sure bet, however. The potential to retain your flying job is good, however you'd be stuck in CVG and flipped off by juvenile Delta pilots. There is talk of a base in ATL and SLC next year, but then again, there was also talk of DFW this year, which won't happen; can't predict a new base with certainty.
Bear in mind that both Comair and Skywest are great companies. Until only recently I would have said "West coast? Skywest. East coast? Comair." However the UAL situation gives the edge to Comair, especially with talk of dwindling UAL contract revenues and a SLC base for Comair.
After all of that, I'd suggest doing some hard-core research for yourself. Don't believe what you hear on these boards until you can back the info for yourself (The article regarding UAL paying ACA and Skywest less for departures can be found in the USA Today Money Section on Tuesday February 25th.) Also, you'll notice in all "which airline should I go to" threads in the last few months is an upset Delta pilot who swears no Comair pilot will ever fly for Delta. Having said that its important to separate truth from propoganda in this industry. Hopefully this thread will not deteriorate from the factual information you're looking for into the trash-talking thread the one's before it have. Maybe this thread will be different...
Let me tell you what little I know about Skywest. Firstly they have a huge amount of aircraft in UAL colors. We all know whats up with United, and recently United has stated it will no longer pay the incredible fees per departure for its regionals which means lower profits for airlines such as Skywest, ACA, and CHQ. The airlines tend to follow what their competitors do, so it'd be safe to say Delta will also decrease the fee. Secondly Skywest seems to be toying with larger aircraft such as the 737 or 717, which are unable to fly as a part of the UAL or DAL ticketing system. While it seems to be the popular view on these forums to fly the biggest thing you can find, this news means risk. Add that to the fact that Skywest will be paid much less for each departure, and you have a situation where hiring may slow down, or stop. On the other hand, you could get on a Skywest and they get the 717's and make a ton of money and grow into a major, but that seems highly unlikely.
Comair is a sure bet, however. The potential to retain your flying job is good, however you'd be stuck in CVG and flipped off by juvenile Delta pilots. There is talk of a base in ATL and SLC next year, but then again, there was also talk of DFW this year, which won't happen; can't predict a new base with certainty.
Bear in mind that both Comair and Skywest are great companies. Until only recently I would have said "West coast? Skywest. East coast? Comair." However the UAL situation gives the edge to Comair, especially with talk of dwindling UAL contract revenues and a SLC base for Comair.
After all of that, I'd suggest doing some hard-core research for yourself. Don't believe what you hear on these boards until you can back the info for yourself (The article regarding UAL paying ACA and Skywest less for departures can be found in the USA Today Money Section on Tuesday February 25th.) Also, you'll notice in all "which airline should I go to" threads in the last few months is an upset Delta pilot who swears no Comair pilot will ever fly for Delta. Having said that its important to separate truth from propoganda in this industry. Hopefully this thread will not deteriorate from the factual information you're looking for into the trash-talking thread the one's before it have. Maybe this thread will be different...
SKYWRJGUY
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2002
- Posts
- 286
Another thing..
Granted I'm a SkyWest guy, but you might also consider the safety net of having more than one carrier as a revenue base. Yes we've got DAL, and UAL (which right is a precarious thing), but we're also looking at others. We will no doubt make less per departure in the future with UAL which will decrease incremental income, but as the number of departures increases so too will the bottom line. It's the Southwest Way--they don't make a lot of money on any one departure, they do it by launching a plane 8-9 times a day. To those who thought Eastern, Pam Am, TWA (et al.) were as blue chip in this industry as an airline could get, history just gives examples of powerful airlines folding. Sometimes smaller is better as the business model tends to be more flexible allowing quicker changes to market conditions.
As for UAL vs DAL jets, I think the current ratio is still only 1:2--I think we've only got 25-30 in those colors which is 1/3 that ACA currently has. I don't know how likely it is UAL will completely close LAX/SFO/DEN, but I could certainly see them slimming down to the bread and butter routes (transcon/transpacific/transatlantic) servicing with nothing but widebodies--that would leave a large gap in small-medium size service throughout the west. Right now, I imagine SKYW, LUV and AWAC are in the best position to capitalize on that opportunity.
Granted I'm a SkyWest guy, but you might also consider the safety net of having more than one carrier as a revenue base. Yes we've got DAL, and UAL (which right is a precarious thing), but we're also looking at others. We will no doubt make less per departure in the future with UAL which will decrease incremental income, but as the number of departures increases so too will the bottom line. It's the Southwest Way--they don't make a lot of money on any one departure, they do it by launching a plane 8-9 times a day. To those who thought Eastern, Pam Am, TWA (et al.) were as blue chip in this industry as an airline could get, history just gives examples of powerful airlines folding. Sometimes smaller is better as the business model tends to be more flexible allowing quicker changes to market conditions.
As for UAL vs DAL jets, I think the current ratio is still only 1:2--I think we've only got 25-30 in those colors which is 1/3 that ACA currently has. I don't know how likely it is UAL will completely close LAX/SFO/DEN, but I could certainly see them slimming down to the bread and butter routes (transcon/transpacific/transatlantic) servicing with nothing but widebodies--that would leave a large gap in small-medium size service throughout the west. Right now, I imagine SKYW, LUV and AWAC are in the best position to capitalize on that opportunity.
maddog805
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
- Posts
- 124
Not Quite
We'll start here. It is true that United is going to pay SkyWest less per departure, but the reduced price is more than Comair takes from big D. The less United flies, the more SkyWest flies.
Why would you want to work for a company who is afraid to take risks? Taking risks is the only way to stay alive in the industry.
SkyWest employees have job security (as much as anyone else anyway) AND opened 3 new RJ domiciles within the last year (good ones too) SBA, TUS, DEN. Oh yeah...No one flips SkyWest off either.
That remains to be seen
Oh yeah, the ONLY reason SkyWest had to reduce costs for big D is because Comair said they would under cut SkyWests costs. SkyWest came within a few days of losing the Delta contract because of Comair's undercutting.
I agree with the rest. Especially the part about not taking advice from people who don't know what they are talking about. Comair has pissed off alot of people at big D so if Comair guys do merge lists or whatever they say is going to happen, there is going to be alot of animosity on the flight deck and that is not healthy at all.
And THOSE are the facts acording to me but....
I wouldn't listen to me either
We'll start here. It is true that United is going to pay SkyWest less per departure, but the reduced price is more than Comair takes from big D. The less United flies, the more SkyWest flies.
Why would you want to work for a company who is afraid to take risks? Taking risks is the only way to stay alive in the industry.
SkyWest employees have job security (as much as anyone else anyway) AND opened 3 new RJ domiciles within the last year (good ones too) SBA, TUS, DEN. Oh yeah...No one flips SkyWest off either.
That remains to be seen
Oh yeah, the ONLY reason SkyWest had to reduce costs for big D is because Comair said they would under cut SkyWests costs. SkyWest came within a few days of losing the Delta contract because of Comair's undercutting.
I agree with the rest. Especially the part about not taking advice from people who don't know what they are talking about. Comair has pissed off alot of people at big D so if Comair guys do merge lists or whatever they say is going to happen, there is going to be alot of animosity on the flight deck and that is not healthy at all.
And THOSE are the facts acording to me but....
I wouldn't listen to me either
Rogue5
Adult Swim junkie
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2002
- Posts
- 882
Newhire class postponement
The original thought I had on the class cancellations was that management suddenly realized that, due to a lack in IOE captains (many transitioned to the CRJ recently what with all the new jet domiciles), they were burning $30-40,000 per month having new-hires sit around 2-4 weeks awaiting IOE, not to mention new captains upgrading etc. Delaying a month would allow IOE to catch up with the newhires and give them a chance to run through a new checkairman class that has been cancelled many times due to lack of time.
I have also recently heard that they slighlty overestimated the number of EMB pilots they thought would transition and the need for replacements has slowed, although certainly not stopped. Even though a few more EMB's are being retired, I keep seeing shiny new CRJs popping up at the gates.
I deadheaded on one yesterday and it did indeed have that "new jet smell."
The original thought I had on the class cancellations was that management suddenly realized that, due to a lack in IOE captains (many transitioned to the CRJ recently what with all the new jet domiciles), they were burning $30-40,000 per month having new-hires sit around 2-4 weeks awaiting IOE, not to mention new captains upgrading etc. Delaying a month would allow IOE to catch up with the newhires and give them a chance to run through a new checkairman class that has been cancelled many times due to lack of time.
I have also recently heard that they slighlty overestimated the number of EMB pilots they thought would transition and the need for replacements has slowed, although certainly not stopped. Even though a few more EMB's are being retired, I keep seeing shiny new CRJs popping up at the gates.
I deadheaded on one yesterday and it did indeed have that "new jet smell."
just trying to be objective.
It all comes down to where you wanna be, I think. The two airlines really are very comparable from an employee standpoint however, when you compare them this is what i see:
Skywest is a great company, but compared to Comair, its risky. Of course Comair can offer lower costs than Skywest. First of all, ALL revenue (profit) goes straight to Delta since they own Comair. Secondly Comair still has a stronghold on the RJ market with the lowest acquisition costs and lowest operating cost (since they've been doing it for 10 years now, have complete fleet comonality and have an excellent relationship with both Bombardier and GE, which makes the CFM-34 only 20 miles from CVG). There's even been talk of Delta reconsidering their relationship with Skywest, but I haven't seen much to back that up. Comair is hiring fast, too; around 250 new pilots in 2002, and thats including a 3 month hiring freeze. Not to mention new hires going to the 70-seater with a 2nd year pay of $39ish. Even those who stay in the 50 seater have a line in around 6 months and have 2nd year pay around $36. You'll have to compare these numbers with Skywest numbers since I don't have them.
I'm trying to just look at the numbers and give you an objective view. Take it for what its worth.
It all comes down to where you wanna be, I think. The two airlines really are very comparable from an employee standpoint however, when you compare them this is what i see:
Skywest is a great company, but compared to Comair, its risky. Of course Comair can offer lower costs than Skywest. First of all, ALL revenue (profit) goes straight to Delta since they own Comair. Secondly Comair still has a stronghold on the RJ market with the lowest acquisition costs and lowest operating cost (since they've been doing it for 10 years now, have complete fleet comonality and have an excellent relationship with both Bombardier and GE, which makes the CFM-34 only 20 miles from CVG). There's even been talk of Delta reconsidering their relationship with Skywest, but I haven't seen much to back that up. Comair is hiring fast, too; around 250 new pilots in 2002, and thats including a 3 month hiring freeze. Not to mention new hires going to the 70-seater with a 2nd year pay of $39ish. Even those who stay in the 50 seater have a line in around 6 months and have 2nd year pay around $36. You'll have to compare these numbers with Skywest numbers since I don't have them.
I'm trying to just look at the numbers and give you an objective view. Take it for what its worth.
SkyWest has been in the RJ buisness for awhile also. I believe since 94. We also are hiring at a good clip. With the advantage of all profits going to D comes risk also. Second year pay is however a bit less at 34.54/hr in the jet. We have far more domociles than Comair. If one chooses, they can go back to the 120 for quick upgrade as there is no seatlock as applied to upgrade. pro's and cons either way.
Miller22 says ," If you want to fly for Delta later, come to Comair. Don't let General Lee scare you into thinking no Comair pilots will go to Delta. Even if the pilots had their self-proclaimed omnipotence and their propoganda was true that you'd never get a job at Delta through Comair, wait until the lists are one-in-the-same and you can just bid into the 767."
Sounds great, doesn't it Col Hogan? Wow - from the right seat of an RJ to the right seat of a 777 flying to Tokyo or London... It will NEVER EVER EVER EVER happen. Don't expect any date-of-hire merging of lists - the Delta pilots would NEVER allow it to happen. That is the biggest lie perpetuated by dillusional RJ pilots. If anything, and it would be a BIG stretch, there might be a staple to the very bottom of the list - but even that is highly unlikely... Do you think the last 1,500-2,000 pilots on the Delta seniority list (many of whom were hired in the past 3-4 years) would allow themselves to be bypassed using a date-of-hire merging of lists? Do you really think that would happen? Heck no!
I once heard a Comair captain state to a bunch of other pilots that he expected (he was very serious) to be a Delta 767 captain in 3-4 years - that was about 5 years ago.
I agree with General Lee on this one. The Delta pilots' union would NEVER stand for a date-of-hire merging of lists - probably not a merging of lists at all.... So, do not base your decision to go to Comair on any direct-to-767-FO-seat idea. If you are familiar with any of the recent Comair postings, you will also see that Delta's MEC is very, very upset with Comair due to their refusal to consider furloughed Delta pilots for open seats (unlike ASA). I doubt having Comair on your resume will help you gain a Delta seat in the near future... That is what I am hearing from my MANY friends who fly for Delta - they are genuinely UPSET. So, if given the choice, go to Skywest - at least the Delta option would be open to you in the next decade after the 1,000+ furloughees are all brought back...
Miller22 - you are trying to be objective but instead you are demonstrating your lack of logic and realism. The Delta pilots would never allow a merging of lists like you suggest - and you should know that - ask ANY Delta pilot... Be realistic...
Just my 2 cents...
Sounds great, doesn't it Col Hogan? Wow - from the right seat of an RJ to the right seat of a 777 flying to Tokyo or London... It will NEVER EVER EVER EVER happen. Don't expect any date-of-hire merging of lists - the Delta pilots would NEVER allow it to happen. That is the biggest lie perpetuated by dillusional RJ pilots. If anything, and it would be a BIG stretch, there might be a staple to the very bottom of the list - but even that is highly unlikely... Do you think the last 1,500-2,000 pilots on the Delta seniority list (many of whom were hired in the past 3-4 years) would allow themselves to be bypassed using a date-of-hire merging of lists? Do you really think that would happen? Heck no!
I once heard a Comair captain state to a bunch of other pilots that he expected (he was very serious) to be a Delta 767 captain in 3-4 years - that was about 5 years ago.
I agree with General Lee on this one. The Delta pilots' union would NEVER stand for a date-of-hire merging of lists - probably not a merging of lists at all.... So, do not base your decision to go to Comair on any direct-to-767-FO-seat idea. If you are familiar with any of the recent Comair postings, you will also see that Delta's MEC is very, very upset with Comair due to their refusal to consider furloughed Delta pilots for open seats (unlike ASA). I doubt having Comair on your resume will help you gain a Delta seat in the near future... That is what I am hearing from my MANY friends who fly for Delta - they are genuinely UPSET. So, if given the choice, go to Skywest - at least the Delta option would be open to you in the next decade after the 1,000+ furloughees are all brought back...
Miller22 - you are trying to be objective but instead you are demonstrating your lack of logic and realism. The Delta pilots would never allow a merging of lists like you suggest - and you should know that - ask ANY Delta pilot... Be realistic...
Just my 2 cents...
skyslug
Oops!
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 242
The thread has deteriorated....
Ok, I'll answer Col Hogan's original question. Both companies are good choices. Both will be around for a while. Both companies have first rate employees. I'm at Comair and have many friends at Skywest.
The choice at this point is where do you want to live? I wouldn't look too far down the line at this point since the industry changes so rapidly. I'd go with domicile.
Hope this helps and good luck!
Ok, I'll answer Col Hogan's original question. Both companies are good choices. Both will be around for a while. Both companies have first rate employees. I'm at Comair and have many friends at Skywest.
The choice at this point is where do you want to live? I wouldn't look too far down the line at this point since the industry changes so rapidly. I'd go with domicile.
Hope this helps and good luck!
1 for 5
Thanks for the reply's, all good info! I have no plans to go to the major's, I would by very happy at a regional! Back in the 70's when Northeast Airlines merged with Delta Airlines, with the exception of the first 100-200 guys on Delta, the list was merged generally 1 for 5. ( 1 northeast per 5 delta) Do you think any merger of the Comair-Delta list would happen along these lines? Hog
Thanks for the reply's, all good info! I have no plans to go to the major's, I would by very happy at a regional! Back in the 70's when Northeast Airlines merged with Delta Airlines, with the exception of the first 100-200 guys on Delta, the list was merged generally 1 for 5. ( 1 northeast per 5 delta) Do you think any merger of the Comair-Delta list would happen along these lines? Hog
I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I was just adding my 2 cents. General Lee may be crass at times, but he is correct in this assessment - despite what Miller22 or Surplus1 have to say... Ask any Delta pilot and he/she will concur.
I just don't believe that Miller22 was being realistic - that date-of-hire merging of lists will not happen despite what hopeful regional pilots think. Delta's mainline pilots will never allow it. If Comair and ASA were integrated using a date-of-hire policy, then current or furloughed MD-88 FOs could conceivably be bumped to the Brasilia FO position based on their date of hire - right? Wrong. That just won't happen - regardless of what Miller22 or any other Comair pilot says. I am being realistic - forget that as a likely consideration...
As far as choosing one vs. another, if you like primarily West Coast flying (with some Southeast flying in the mix) and you don't mind flying a Brasilia for a while, then Skywest would be your choice. If you want to live in the Midwest or East and fly mainly CRJs (50 and 70 seaters), then Comair would be your choice. I know a few Skywest RJ pilots who live in Tucson (new base) and Santa Barbara and they LOVE it. It would be a great place to be until the majors start hiring again in 5-8 years after all of the furloughees are flying again...
Good luck
I just don't believe that Miller22 was being realistic - that date-of-hire merging of lists will not happen despite what hopeful regional pilots think. Delta's mainline pilots will never allow it. If Comair and ASA were integrated using a date-of-hire policy, then current or furloughed MD-88 FOs could conceivably be bumped to the Brasilia FO position based on their date of hire - right? Wrong. That just won't happen - regardless of what Miller22 or any other Comair pilot says. I am being realistic - forget that as a likely consideration...
As far as choosing one vs. another, if you like primarily West Coast flying (with some Southeast flying in the mix) and you don't mind flying a Brasilia for a while, then Skywest would be your choice. If you want to live in the Midwest or East and fly mainly CRJs (50 and 70 seaters), then Comair would be your choice. I know a few Skywest RJ pilots who live in Tucson (new base) and Santa Barbara and they LOVE it. It would be a great place to be until the majors start hiring again in 5-8 years after all of the furloughees are flying again...
Good luck
120% Torque
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2002
- Posts
- 277
During the Northwest/ Republic Airlines merger some date of hire was alloted but fences were put in at various points along the way. These fences essentially limited "heavy" flying to Northwest only pilots unless you were one of the most senior guys from Republic and even then there were restrictions. There was a lot of bad blood and nasty things said (primarily form Northwest guys directed toward Republic guys) for a long time. I do know a Republic guy that ended up number one at Northwest his last three years flying the Whale but this was fairly uncommon. One thing is for sure and that is if a Comair intergration ever does take place things will get ugly regarding working conditions.
I thought this was about Skywest vs. Comair. Not Delta vs. Comair...which, somehow, is what every thread deteriorates into.
And somehow there always seems to be propoganda slipped in:
"If you want to eventually possibly end up with Delta, go to Skywest."
"That is the biggest lie perpetuated by dillusional RJ pilots."
Frankly, I don't want the lists merged since it would put me out of a job. I guess heavyset "assumed" I did. Just because I think it will happen doesn't mean I want it to. Its frustrating how the Comair-bashers always seem to comb through the threads (that have nothing to do with them) to see where they can do their worst. It only took two replies on this particular thread. Unfortunately it takes much more self-discipline than I have to read this and not let it go. Perhaps I'll try harder.
And somehow there always seems to be propoganda slipped in:
"If you want to eventually possibly end up with Delta, go to Skywest."
"That is the biggest lie perpetuated by dillusional RJ pilots."
Frankly, I don't want the lists merged since it would put me out of a job. I guess heavyset "assumed" I did. Just because I think it will happen doesn't mean I want it to. Its frustrating how the Comair-bashers always seem to comb through the threads (that have nothing to do with them) to see where they can do their worst. It only took two replies on this particular thread. Unfortunately it takes much more self-discipline than I have to read this and not let it go. Perhaps I'll try harder.
You know General Lee and Heavy set, I too am tired of hearing the overdone banter and bashing of the "blacklisted" Comair pilots. You've made your point. All Comair pilots are screwed if they ever want to be hired by Delta. Got it! No need to beat everyone over the head with it every dam n night! 
skydiverdriver
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 869
I agree with what the Delta pilots have been telling me all along. If any Comair pilot wishes to go to Delta, he should apply and follow all of their rules with reguard to their former employment. My question is, why wouldn't that be the same with respect to Delta pilots coming to Comair?
Last edited:
Airpiraterob
LaForge Sayz:
- Joined
- May 21, 2002
- Posts
- 646
so someone tell me what this means.....
i might post it as a seperate stand alone thread, but....
i did the online application thing with skywest, what will be the usual common response after this? im not expecting anything right away but im wondering what they will do afterwards.
i applied end of january...and a whole month later jsut today i get an email from Mrs. kirkham, "Thanks!"...and thats it. honest whole direct entire quote from my email...
this means thanks but no thanks? or thanks and well concider it when we need to concider for openings/a pool? or expect a call soon?....im not psyching myselfe up for a fall or anything...im jsut wanting to know what this means....first email like this ive gotten from anyone....anyone being an airline that is.
insiders comment? (im just hurting for something badly here)
i might post it as a seperate stand alone thread, but....
i did the online application thing with skywest, what will be the usual common response after this? im not expecting anything right away but im wondering what they will do afterwards.
i applied end of january...and a whole month later jsut today i get an email from Mrs. kirkham, "Thanks!"...and thats it. honest whole direct entire quote from my email...
this means thanks but no thanks? or thanks and well concider it when we need to concider for openings/a pool? or expect a call soon?....im not psyching myselfe up for a fall or anything...im jsut wanting to know what this means....first email like this ive gotten from anyone....anyone being an airline that is.
insiders comment? (im just hurting for something badly here)
Airpiraterob
LaForge Sayz:
- Joined
- May 21, 2002
- Posts
- 646
ReportCanoa
I'm fly in any weather
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2003
- Posts
- 899
Heavy Set said:
I have no opinions regarding SKYW vs. CMR and have never expressed any. I also have no comment re Miller22's posts.
I've said lots of things but would prefer that you not misconstrue them or misinterpret them. For the record, Surplus1 does NOT favor a merger of the DAL/CMR lists and certainly does NOT believe that such a merger, if it ever occured, would result in DOH for CMR pilots. That is totatally unrealistic. Therefore, I agree with you on that point.
I also believe that a pure staple to the bottom of the Delta list, or for that matter any other mainline list, would most certainly NOT be in the best interests of Comair pilots. It would make a least half of our list instant furlough fodder for the mainline group. Not only today, but for a very, very long time. In addition to that, most if not all of our Captains would be displaced from their seats. Only a fool would agree to that. If Comair had been "stapled" to the Delta list 2 years ago, 2/3 of Comair's pilots would be on the street today and the rest would be jerking gear for Delta new hires. Anyone that thinks that's desirable, just doesn't think.
In case you feel that I think that way because I am "senior", forget it. Remember, furloughs start at the bottom not at the top. I think this way because I am not willing to put Comair's junior pilots on the street so that Delta's junior pilots can take their jobs. If a furlough at Comair got to my number, the airline would have ceased to exist long before, and ALL of us would be looking for jobs. Could that ever happen? You bet it could! Just ask an Braniff pilot, a rEAL pilot, a PAA pilot or a TWA pilot (to name a few). The only thing certain in this business is uncertainty, and that's not new either.
Again, for the record, I am not and have never been a proponent of the traditional "one list" between CMR and DAL. The idea is impractical and unrealistic. It ain't gonna happen, so don't base your decision re SKYW vs. CMR on that idea.
Note: That doesn't mean that I believe Delta mainline and the Delta subsidiaries can't resolve our differences. I believe that we can, I just don't think we can do it with "one list". There are other ways. We just haven't explored them.
If you want to fly a 737 or an MD80 series, then apply for a job at some airline that has them; Comair doesn't. As long as Delta owns Comair, Comair is highly unlikey to operate any aicraft of that size in the foreseable future. The probability of large narrow-body aircraft on the Comair certificate died on the day that Comair died, i.e., the day it was acquired by Delta.
Working for Comair will not get you a job at Delta. Neither will working for Skywest. If what YOU want to do is fly for Delta, then apply to Delta. At some time in the future (when is anbody's guess) Delta will eventually be hiring new pilots.
Warning: By that time, the General will be the Delta MEC Chairman. Since we all know that the Delta MEC Chairman controls which pilots Delta hires, he will order that no Comair pilots should be hired and Delta will obey him. By the way, the moon is made of green cheese.
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Surplus1,
Well, I will probably run for MEC Chairlman someday, on the platform of all 70 seat and 50 seat RJ's going to Delta Mainline pilots, and only DHC-6 Twin Otters for ASA and Comair. (And a couple Cessna 206's to carry extra carry over luggage) No, I am joking, right? Anyways, I have nothing personally against Comair pilots as a whole, just some of their senior MEC guys---and everyone knows why. I think a staple is gambling, and somebody always loses, but some people actually win--especially in good times. Nobody could have seen 9-11 coming, and had Comair and ASA accepted some sort of staple (if management would have accepted it) those stapled three years ago would not be the ones on the street now. They might be back in an RJ, but that is not a bad option. When the war is over and the economy comes back, things will most likely get better and expansion might not be far away. This whole industry is a gamble---starting with which airline you get on with first. Choosing between Skywest and Comair is one of those choices you have to look at as a whole. Will Delta hire Comair pilots in the future? Maybe--it is up to the interviewer. But, there is a good chance that this interviewer will have knowledge about Comair's refusal to hire our furloughed pilots when ASA did. There was a large article about this in the ATL Council 44 Roar magazine that just came out, and only 4500 of our 8000 or so pilots left probably read about it. Will that sway someone's mind? I don't know. Most of the Capt's I fly with aren't very happy about it. They don't know about this fued between our MEC's---so I guess they are not informed. The whole reason I started writing about this is because I feel betrayed. I wanted you to win your strike----I really did. I also want to protect my job---with some scope. I also see all of my friends out there who can't get a job, and then I see you guys expanding and not hiring our guys because of "CRM" problems. So, can you see why we would want some of the future CRJ70's or all of the 90's? We have guys that cannot get work, even with the regionals that are own by our company.
It just makes sense. If you think it doesn't, how about calling up some of our furloughs (when you aren't flying) and telling them they should stay out longer.
Bye Bye---General Lee
Well, I will probably run for MEC Chairlman someday, on the platform of all 70 seat and 50 seat RJ's going to Delta Mainline pilots, and only DHC-6 Twin Otters for ASA and Comair. (And a couple Cessna 206's to carry extra carry over luggage) No, I am joking, right? Anyways, I have nothing personally against Comair pilots as a whole, just some of their senior MEC guys---and everyone knows why. I think a staple is gambling, and somebody always loses, but some people actually win--especially in good times. Nobody could have seen 9-11 coming, and had Comair and ASA accepted some sort of staple (if management would have accepted it) those stapled three years ago would not be the ones on the street now. They might be back in an RJ, but that is not a bad option. When the war is over and the economy comes back, things will most likely get better and expansion might not be far away. This whole industry is a gamble---starting with which airline you get on with first. Choosing between Skywest and Comair is one of those choices you have to look at as a whole. Will Delta hire Comair pilots in the future? Maybe--it is up to the interviewer. But, there is a good chance that this interviewer will have knowledge about Comair's refusal to hire our furloughed pilots when ASA did. There was a large article about this in the ATL Council 44 Roar magazine that just came out, and only 4500 of our 8000 or so pilots left probably read about it. Will that sway someone's mind? I don't know. Most of the Capt's I fly with aren't very happy about it. They don't know about this fued between our MEC's---so I guess they are not informed. The whole reason I started writing about this is because I feel betrayed. I wanted you to win your strike----I really did. I also want to protect my job---with some scope. I also see all of my friends out there who can't get a job, and then I see you guys expanding and not hiring our guys because of "CRM" problems. So, can you see why we would want some of the future CRJ70's or all of the 90's? We have guys that cannot get work, even with the regionals that are own by our company.
It just makes sense. If you think it doesn't, how about calling up some of our furloughs (when you aren't flying) and telling them they should stay out longer.
Bye Bye---General Lee
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
