skywest doing eagle flying

[BentOver]

Mainline flying would be those markets that will consistently and profitably support an aircraft with 150 seats or more.

Whose name is on the passengers ticket? Or what website do passengers go to to book a flight?

Regionals exhistance has always been to do the flying that won't support mainline equipment... However way back when, that flying consisted of Evansville to Cincinnati in a turbo prop. Nowadays it's ORD - MIA in a 70-90 seat jet..... A segment that most certainly could be utilized by mainline equipment... Now it is probably a mix of mainline and regional...

My hometown used to have nothing but USair/United/Continental 737's, NWA DC-9's and Delta MD88's/727's.. Now not a single mainline comes in (except maybe JetBlue and AT).....But we've had a multitude of changes between which regional serves the area.. And not a single passenger ever knows the difference between regionals.

Never for a second think that any particular regional "owns" any flying. Or in some cases, their own airplanes..

 

[AntiJedi]

Regionals exhistance has always been to do the flying that won't support mainline equipment...

Not quite. At one time, Regionals supported themselves, but you're right that airlines, such as PSA, AirCal, and even Mesaba, Air Wisconsin, and SkyWest, the DID do flying that Pan Am, Braniff, and American couldn't do profitably, or didn't want to do at all.

 

[General Lee]

Mainline flying would be those markets that will consistently and profitably support an aircraft with 150 seats or more.

Jon,

Do 717s have 150 or more seats? Wrong.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Jon Rivoli]

Jon,

Do 717s have 150 or more seats? Wrong.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Will you guys be operating them at a loss? Yes.

All of the operating costs of an MD-80, with 30% less revenue. Brilliant!

It has a common type rating with the DC-9/MD-80, but that is about where the commonality ends and at about 106 seats they will be a stone around Delta's neck until the next CEO opts to ditch them (how long are those leases?), probably in bankruptcy along with a refinery.

Bye Bye!

 

[B727FA]

I knew the BRS was a little slower a/c but sheese...you'd think they'd catch up to this news before now! LOL

 

[MoreDaysOff]

Why exactly is a Brasilia pilot a nerd..?

 

[badog]

Why exactly is a Brasilia pilot a nerd..?

Next time you pass by a reflective surface, stop and gaze at the thing staring back at you. That, my goofy counter part, is a nerd.
It has nothing to do with the a/c but everything to do with who he was.
Let's face it, the majority of sky pest pilots are nerds.
They all act too cool for school but when we were in salt lake, "stealing their flying" we were treated pretty bad.
Funny how they've forgotten that.
Who cares anyway it doesn't matter one bit.
Whomever is on top now, will be on the bottom or gone next.
If you have no plan, "b", you're screwed dude.

 

[gojo]

Next time you pass by a reflective surface, stop and gaze at the thing staring back at you. That, my goofy counter part, is a nerd.
It has nothing to do with the a/c but everything to do with who he was.
Let's face it, the majority of sky pest pilots are nerds.
They all act too cool for school but when we were in salt lake, "stealing their flying" we were treated pretty bad.
Funny how they've forgotten that.
Who cares anyway it doesn't matter one bit.
Whomever is on top now, will be on the bottom or gone next.
If you have no plan, "b", you're screwed dude.

Ha ha, you're so right. I remember when we were ramping up our 900 flying and toying with the idea of opening up a base in SLC. They were pissed because we were "stealing their flying". I don't understand the difference between that and them taking Comair planes or their flying. I have to admit I'm getting pretty tired of the ginormous egos of Skywest and ASA pilots, but whatever, being humbled usually follows

 

[General Lee]

Will you guys be operating them at a loss? Yes.

All of the operating costs of an MD-80, with 30% less revenue. Brilliant!

It has a common type rating with the DC-9/MD-80, but that is about where the commonality ends and at about 106 seats they will be a stone around Delta's neck until the next CEO opts to ditch them (how long are those leases?), probably in bankruptcy along with a refinery.

Bye Bye!

Uhhhhhh, say what???? Operating them at a loss? Jon, you are going nuts. Don't you think people smarter than you have already figured it out? The sub lease from SWA first refurbishes each one of them, including expensive mx checks, install wifi, paint jobs, etc costing them $137 million dollars. Then, Boeing has agreed to sell each of them to Delta at the end of the sub leases (between 2020 and 2024) at THEN cost. MD90s currently cost $8-9 million each, including the engines. So, just a guess, but when they come off lease they might cost $6-7 million per plane?

Throw in new first class seats (high premium pax or freq fliers), and a refinery that brings down the cost of each barrel of oil compared to every competitor, and that means YOU ARE WRONG JONNY. Fewer RJs, more mainline. That's called FANTASTIC. Bye Jon, and caution wake turbulence behind the 717...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[WSurf]

Will you guys be operating them at a loss? Yes.

All of the operating costs of an MD-80, with 30% less revenue. Brilliant!

It has a common type rating with the DC-9/MD-80, but that is about where the commonality ends and at about 106 seats they will be a stone around Delta's neck until the next CEO opts to ditch them (how long are those leases?), probably in bankruptcy along with a refinery.

Bye Bye!

717 is a great plane. And aren't 50 Seat RJ's already operating at a loss?? Anytime we can see RJ's replaced by mainline flying that is a good thing for us all.

 

[General Lee]

717 is a great plane. And aren't 50 Seat RJ's already operating at a loss?? Anytime we can see RJ's replaced by mainline flying that is a good thing for us all.

Amen brother, Amen.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Jon Rivoli]

It may be a great plane, but with Delta's cost structure you can not amortize your overhead on a plane that size, sorry, you will operate them at a loss.

Anderson, no doubt, views it as throwing a bone to ALPA to buy something else he wants and figures that he can eat the loss and make it up elsewhere. Until he can ditch them. At least he will be able to tell you that they tried, but the only solution is to code share with SKYW and their MRJ's.

As for people smarter than me? I used to work in airline management and I have seen the smart guys do some really stupid things, a whole boardroom full of smart guys do stuff that was obviously stupid, like buying old airplanes and underestimating the costs while over estimating the benefits. That outfit ended up losing the whole contract and are almost gone now.

And the refinery? If it was profitable, it wouldn't have been for sale. And owning a refinery doesn't get you free fuel.

Good luck though, really!

Bye Bye!

 

[General Lee]

It may be a great plane, but with Delta's cost structure you can not amortize your overhead on a plane that size, sorry, you will operate them at a loss.

Anderson, no doubt, views it as throwing a bone to ALPA to buy something else he wants and figures that he can eat the loss and make it up elsewhere. Until he can ditch them. At least he will be able to tell you that they tried, but the only solution is to code share with SKYW and their MRJ's.

As for people smarter than me? I used to work in airline management and I have seen the smart guys do some really stupid things, a whole boardroom full of smart guys do stuff that was obviously stupid, like buying old airplanes and underestimating the costs while over estimating the benefits. That outfit ended up losing the whole contract and are almost gone now.

And the refinery? If it was profitable, it wouldn't have been for sale. And owning a refinery doesn't get you free fuel.

Good luck though, really!

Bye Bye!

Jon for WORLD CFO! I am pretty sure people will choose to fly 717s over ANY RJ out there given the chance, and thanks to getting 88 717s over the next 3 years, smaller cities and routes that were mainline anyway years ago will see them again.

Higher oil means higher CASM on smaller planes. Larger planes help spread out the costs. When you say Delta must "amortize" the costs, does that include the intial 10 years of leases on them? A sub-lease, at a VERY good lease rate closed the deal, plus SWA paying $137 MILLION to cover most of the initial costs. They will be "turn key" from the start, no initial costs other than the sims. (Paint, wifi, and MX checks all done prior) Then, at the end of the deal, a SWEATHEART deal---buying them at THEN cost---might be $5-6 million EACH, including engines. Whomever made that deal was a GENIUS. It fills in for RJs that can't cover their costs due to high oil. All but 125 50 seaters GO AWAY, and then larger planes (more seats to cover the costs) will fill in for them (CR7s), and then CR9s will fill in for the CR7s etc. Throw 717s on current CR9/E175 routes, and more seats will help pay for that higher gas. It's not rocket science, Jon. It's a GREAT plan that you don't like for obvious reasons. Sorry.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[WSurf]

Actually General I have to disagree on one point Nobody is gonna care if its a 717 or an RJ. Of course we would rather be on the Boeing, but bottom line is people are always gonna go with the cheaper ticket. Now given the choice at the same price then of course they will go with the bigger plane.
However Jon is think that the pilots cost is such a bigger factor then it really is. SkyBus paid RJ pay rates and how did that work for them??? Virgin America Pilots are getting paid low wages and how does that work them???
Bottom line is the RJ 50 seaters can only make money on certain runs. When fuel was going up and up what planes did US Airways and Delta Park??? US Airways got to the point where it was cheaper to Park the planes then actually pay the contract airlines to fly them. Thus adding more hours of flying to the Dash 8's during that period.
Another factor is you've just seen the major airlines combine to make three mega carriers. Now these companies are gonna be able down the road to charge more money for tickets in many more markets. The Boeing 717 has proven to be a fuel efficent plane and even AirTran stated that the plane performed much better then expected.
About 8 years ago AirTran signed on with AirWhiskey to do flying for them. After about 1 year AirTran crunched the numbers and figured that they could do the flying at almost the same cost and be much more reliable!!! Thus telling them thanks but we will do it ourselves.
Delta is making all the Right moves!

 

[General Lee]

Thanks WSurf for your comments. I do think business flyers may actually want to avoid RJs if possible, especially 50 seaters, to be able to work (and bill people) sometimes while traveling. The average person, maybe not. There is a difference between now and years ago with regard to the 717s, and that is the introduction of fees. Bag fees, change fees, etc have added revenue to each flight. Even those fees may not be enough for a 50 seater to make a profit, but they may really increase profit potential for mainline planes, including 717s. And DL's most coveted passengers, the frequent flyer, really do want first class seating on mainline planes.

WSurf, are you going to throw in an app to US or DL?


Bye Bye---General Lee