Skywest/ASA

[Brasilia Flyer]

Now, about this pay thing...YOU WILL MAKE HOW MUCH THIS YEAR?!?!?!

49K as a second year FO?? your hourly pay is roughly 35 an hour so that would mean you would have to fly 1400 hrs...400 hours over the FAA yearly maximum for 121 pilots.

EVEN AFTER duty rigs, premium, over block, profit sharing, and the money you make moonlighting as flame bait, I don't think 49k is realistic!!

GONNA have to call FLAME on the 49K!!

I made 51K as a three year jet fo. You've got to work hard, but its doable. For example, for two months last year I was displaced the entire month. One of those months, my credit was 141 hours with a block around 50.

 

[FL990]

OK fine...I will conceed

So according to all you SKYWEST people, you are making 49K as second year FO's. Then get ready!!!!!!! Cause you will be asked to take a concession on the 50....I didn't make near that much my second at ASA, maybe 35, but probably not...

So if our/your MGMT's argument is holds true, then YOU are not competative on the 200 and are risking to lose your 50 seaters to us.

That would explain why our profit margins are so much higher than yours.


ALSO, if this is true, than that would mean that you are making more than our 700 pilots!!!! AND WE NEED TO TAKE A PAY CUT?!?!?!?!

 

[FL990]

FL990, I'm not sure I follow you anymore. Most people on here are easy to figure out if the believe ALPA or they don't. In the above post you seem to be sceptical of ALPA, but in other places you seem to trust ALPA. What am I missing?

There was nothing in my post that said i didn't support or believe ALPA. What I was trying to say is that they should not play the game that MGMT plays.

They are looking for evidence that MGMT has already made the decision to move the 900's to SKYWEST and that they have already shifted other flying as well. That is so they can come back after the fact and say..."the decision was made before hand." In other words, they are setting up there counter just in case....

That is the game MGMT plays and I don't like it. I want people to be able to make decisions based on facts...not rumors.

Facts like the numbers discussed in my previous post, which suggest that a Skywest pilot at my level is making almost 25% more than me...that our profit margins were 13.1%, the highest in the industry...that our combined earnings for the 4th quarter of 2005 were around 85 MIL, more than double that of the previous year...that the additional aircraft they are replacing our 70 seaters with are 900, which have a lower cost per seat mile when configured with 76 seats and will also carry first class passengers, who pay more for tickets!!!


These are hard facts...which the company avoids when trying to support there efforts for a pay cut. What I was saying is that I would prefer the union use these numbers and facts to support there arguments instead of playing the games MGMT play!

 

[Bizjet]

There was nothing in my post that said i didn't support or believe ALPA. What I was trying to say is that they should not play the game that MGMT plays.

They are looking for evidence that MGMT has already made the decision to move the 900's to SKYWEST and that they have already shifted other flying as well. That is so they can come back after the fact and say..."the decision was made before hand." In other words, they are setting up there counter just in case....

That is the game MGMT plays and I don't like it. I want people to be able to make decisions based on facts...not rumors.

Facts like the numbers discussed in my previous post, which suggest that a Skywest pilot at my level is making almost 25% more than me...that our profit margins were 13.1%, the highest in the industry...that our combined earnings for the 4th quarter of 2005 were around 85 MIL, more than double that of the previous year...that the additional aircraft they are replacing our 70 seaters with are 900, which have a lower cost per seat mile when configured with 76 seats and will also carry first class passengers, who pay more for tickets!!!


These are hard facts...which the company avoids when trying to support there efforts for a pay cut. What I was saying is that I would prefer the union use these numbers and facts to support there arguments instead of playing the games MGMT play!

You can count on the company to announce that SkyWest will take the 705's because of our cost, blah, blah, blah. We should expect that and not blink after the announcement. If we are strong they will have to resort to placing the aircraft where they make the most money. Imagine that--management making a business decision because our pilots won't pay to play. Well John Boy will demand a pay cut and we should be able to sign a side letter to cover him and his army of recruits.

 

[MYFpilot]

I'll make 49K this year at SKYW on 2nd year pay. an FO at ASA told me he makes 10K LESS on 3rd year pay.

As an RJ FO I made a little over 34 grand my 2nd year (2005) at SkyWest and averaged about 15 days off a month.

In-order to pull in $49000 (which is doable) you would have to be on the road 20+ days a month.

I'd also vote union and it has nothing to do with pay...

http://www.skywestalpa.org/

 

[Socalplt]

85 hrs of credit a month x 12 @$35hr = $35,700
100 hrs of credit a month x 12 @ $35hr = $42,000

You'd have to add in $400-$500 a month of per diem to get anywhere near high $40s.

 

[Bako Cap]

4 day trip pairings 4 times a month at a SkyWest average of 77 hours per trip pairing x $1.60 per hour per diem = $492.80 per month x 12 months = $5913.60 per year.

Yup, that's in the upper range of $400 - $500 a month

 

[Tomct]

:laugh:I think that is great that you guys make that kind of money,but guess what? Just like 990 said, you are a lot more expensive than we are on the 50 and that brings a problem to your front door. If JA thinks that, you will get a paycut without any say. That is jacked up!! Both companies are making TREMENDOUS amounts of money and yet they are asking us for cuts! We won't take them and guess what....he is going to come to you guys next! Atleast with ALPA he could not just "institute" his own pay to you guys. That is what would be jacked up. I hope that ya'll vote in the union to put an end of all this whipsaw crap!! He would not want to fight with two union pilot groups and if we merged, we would be over 4,000. That would be great bargaining power!! Think About IT!!!

 

[Socalplt]

I agree with you 100%. I'm much more concerned about keeping what we have now, and thats is why we need a union at SkyWest.

 

[Morning Wood]

I agree with you 100%. I'm much more concerned about keeping what we have now, and thats is why we need a union at SkyWest.

And how did ALPA keep what Delta and Northwest pilots had?
Delta has asked their guys for 2 seperate pay consessions.
All of them (including UA) have given up pay, benefits, and
scope and this is WITH a union. Ask any TWA pilot what
ALPA did to protect their jobs.

 

[USCtrojan]

Union

Cuts were all subjected to a vote by the rank and file. They weren't just implemented is what was implied I think.

Trojan

 

[Dave Benjamin]

And how did ALPA keep what Delta and Northwest pilots had?
Delta has asked their guys for 2 seperate pay consessions.
All of them (including UA) have given up pay, benefits, and
scope and this is WITH a union. Ask any TWA pilot what
ALPA did to protect their jobs.

What do you suppose it would have been like without a union? Would the managment teams at DAL and NWA even have asked or what they just have instituted a concessionary contract?

 

[Socalplt]

#1 Without the union at Delta, they never would have had the contract they negotiated in 2001.

#2 Without the union and contract they had they most certainly taken paycuts in 2002, not 3-4 years later as has happened.

#3 Without the union/contract they probably have a lot less than they have now.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I agree with you 100%. I'm much more concerned about keeping what we have now, and thats is why we need a union at SkyWest.

Ha ha.....say buh bye to any "rewards" you have and get ready for 4+ years of trying to get what you have right now. You think a union will help you keep what you have now? Um, right. Plus, say buh bye to another 1.95% of your pay so Worthless can make himself richer.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Cuts were all subjected to a vote by the rank and file. They weren't just implemented is what was implied I think.

Trojan

What's the difference?

Non-union airline - "Guys, you are taking a paycut"

Union airline - "Guys, you must vote on a paycut or we will liquidate"

At least the first will get it over with without the bull$hit dog and pony show in between.

 

[Tomct]

Captn Meggadeth everybudddy:laugh:....spewing his infinite knowledge! You are most likely one of the anti-union guys EXCEPT when you get a HUGE contract brought to you by your Union Leadership, and then you are HAPPY!! Yeah, the majors have been taking paycuts, but that was out of survivability! We are making plenty of money. That is just like comparing apples and oranges. Why don't you and D'Whore go have a coke and a smile and leave the important stuff to the REAL LEADERSHIP!! Jack@ss!

 

[Socalplt]

What's the difference?

Non-union airline - "Guys, you are taking a paycut"

Union airline - "Guys, you must vote on a paycut or we will liquidate"

At least the first will get it over with without the bull$hit dog and pony show in between.

Yeah, I can hear Jerry and Ron now " We're only gonna have a profit of a $100+ million this year, If you don't a take a paycut we'll have to liquidate"

ASA has the highest profit margin out there, yet somehow they need an 8% paycut on the seventy?

After management is done with ASA they'll becoming after the SkyWest pilots.

 

[Tomct]

Socal you hit the nail right on the head. Of all people, the skwst pilot group should be rooting for us (ASA) because If we were to accept the cuts(Never goin to happen) , guess what! The skywst group is NEXT!! Obviously YOU know that, now if we could just get the rest of your group to figure it out! Good Post Socal!

 

[Morning Wood]

Cuts were all subjected to a vote by the rank and file. They weren't just implemented is what was implied I think.

Trojan

Not what I implied at all. They were voted in, but why?
Because of self preservation or because the MEC told them to
vote yes? You ASA guys are on here saying you won't cave
and that SkyWest needs to join the brotherhood. How did
the brotherhood protect Delta, Northwest, or TWA?

 

[Morning Wood]

What do you suppose it would have been like without a union? Would the managment teams at DAL and NWA even have asked or what they just have instituted a concessionary contract?

And in terms of what they lost, what's the difference? Grinstein
still wants to terminate the pensions.

 

[USCtrojan]

Union

And in terms of what they lost, what's the difference? Grinstein
still wants to terminate the pensions.

The obvious, is obvious I hope. What were the financials at all the airlines you state? What are the financials at Skywest and ASA? How about combined? Look, I don't mind taking a paycut, but at least give me a reason and show me logic I can understand as to why management needs me to take a paycut. "Your operating costs are too high." Okay, show me. Nothing has been produced to convince me I need to take a paycut other than management stating, "operating costs are too high." You just made a 40 million dollar profit in one quarter, but we need our pilots to take a paycut? Show me why. How about giving our mechanics and FA's a raise to match Skywests? At least level the playing field here and I can see. Otherwise it's a simple, "I respectfully decline your request for a paycut."

Trojan

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Now, about this pay thing...YOU WILL MAKE HOW MUCH THIS YEAR?!?!?!

49K as a second year FO?? your hourly pay is roughly 35 an hour so that would mean you would have to fly 1400 hrs...400 hours over the FAA yearly maximum for 121 pilots.

EVEN AFTER duty rigs, premium, over block, profit sharing, and the money you make moonlighting as flame bait, I don't think 49k is realistic!!

GONNA have to call FLAME on the 49K!!

Thank you
I been callin B.S. for awhile on these koolaid swilling fools. The company sends out a "howmuchyoucostthecompany" newsletter all personalized and stuff just to make you feel how "valuable" and "expensive" you are, kinda like an extra spoon full of sugar in the cup.
PBR

 

[Morning Wood]

The obvious, is obvious I hope. What were the financials at all the airlines you state? What are the financials at Skywest and ASA? How about combined? Look, I don't mind taking a paycut, but at least give me a reason and show me logic I can understand as to why management needs me to take a paycut. "Your operating costs are too high." Okay, show me. Nothing has been produced to convince me I need to take a paycut other than management stating, "operating costs are too high." You just made a 40 million dollar profit in one quarter, but we need our pilots to take a paycut? Show me why. How about giving our mechanics and FA's a raise to match Skywests? At least level the playing field here and I can see. Otherwise it's a simple, "I respectfully decline your request for a paycut."

Trojan

I agree and I hope you didn't take my post as advocating pay cuts
when things are good. As someone asked mgt, if now isn't the
time for raises when profits are what they are, when will be a
good time? I simply don't think ALPA or anyone else on the property
is going to preserve pay or anything else.

 

[Morning Wood]

Thank you
I been callin B.S. for awhile on these koolaid swilling fools. The company sends out a "howmuchyoucostthecompany" newsletter all personalized and stuff just to make you feel how "valuable" and "expensive" you are, kinda like an extra spoon full of sugar in the cup.
PBR

Exactly. My insurance BENEFIT is not income and should not be
counted as such. It's something I pay for every 2 weeks.
Do the Delta passes I use and what it would have cost to buy
the tickets count as income? No. Just because I had a cavity
filled by my dentist, what it cost the insurance company to
pay my dentist or what the company paid for the policy
is not money in my pocket. It is not income!

 

[USCtrojan]

Financials

I agree and I hope you didn't take my post as advocating pay cuts
when things are good. As someone asked mgt, if now isn't the
time for raises when profits are what they are, when will be a
good time? I simply don't think ALPA or anyone else on the property
is going to preserve pay or anything else.

Right now I think ALPA does a lot more than people think. Or other Unions for that matter. Why doesn't Jerry just shrink the Skywest contract to match ASA's? Why? Because the second he did he'd have a Union on the property. That threat, I believe, is caused by the Union. Good or bad? I agree with Joe and some others here that ALPA has some major flaws going on. While I may not agree with everything, I like the Union mainly because it provides a binding contract. I had a senior Skywest pilot on my jumpseat a few months ago and I was asking him about their contract. He told me that Skywest Management was very slowly taking away QOL aspects of their contract anticipating a Union on the property (his opinion). I can't remember the details off the top of my head, but I found that interesting. I realize ASA management does circumvent our contract a lot, but at least there's a grievance process. I would love to see the numbers on how much money is spent on that whole process. I would be willing to bet that if management would stop circumventing the contract and grievances were slowed to a few, Mgmt would have their paycut. Or get people their bags at the airport without having to shuttle them, etc.

Trojan

 

["GO AROUND"]

The obvious, is obvious I hope. What were the financials at all the airlines you state? What are the financials at Skywest and ASA? How about combined? Look, I don't mind taking a paycut, but at least give me a reason and show me logic I can understand as to why management needs me to take a paycut. "Your operating costs are too high." Okay, show me. Nothing has been produced to convince me I need to take a paycut other than management stating, "operating costs are too high." You just made a 40 million dollar profit in one quarter, but we need our pilots to take a paycut? Show me why. How about giving our mechanics and FA's a raise to match Skywests? At least level the playing field here and I can see. Otherwise it's a simple, "I respectfully decline your request for a paycut."

Trojan

A little clarification for the debate. ASA managment has said that the costs on the 70 are to high not the company as a whole. They want us to think that they are the same but overall ASA's cost's are some of the lowest in the industry. That is why ASA has the highest profit margin in the industry.


The Company was so good at shifting the numbers in their last proposal, they should be able to shift the numbers with at least our current rates and we are still cost competitive. They won't admit that and until they give me a valid reason, not the same ol lip service, we can stay in recess forever or walk.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Look at it this way, we are in line if not low on the CR2 which is the bulk of our fleet. We are high on the CR7 which isn't even a quarter of the fleet. The future of the regional business is the CR7/9 by capacity. We did great last quarter, but what about future quarters without competative wages.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Look at it this way, we are in line if not low on the CR2 which is the bulk of our fleet. We are high on the CR7 which isn't even a quarter of the fleet. The future of the regional business is the CR7/9 by capacity. We did great last quarter, but what about future quarters without competative wages.

The Skywest pilot costs are STILL higher than ours, total package. You are spreading management kool-aid!

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Are we competeing with SKW exclusively, or are we also competeing with CHQ XJT Mesa Eagle and any other 70 seat driver out there. You take all these numbers together and you come up with a standard. That is what I am refering to. If I am drinking management kool-aid then you must love the ALPA soda.

Spin Away...

 

[hmmurdock]

Look at it this way, we are in line if not low on the CR2 which is the bulk of our fleet. We are high on the CR7 which isn't even a quarter of the fleet. The future of the regional business is the CR7/9 by capacity. We did great last quarter, but what about future quarters without competative wages.

Don't forget to include Horizon 70 seat rates in your 70 comparison.