Skywest..ALPA?

[HelloNewman]

Dude, that other airline is probably ALPA.

Darn right it is. At SkyWest many of us prefer to let other airlines do the heavy lifting. We have thrived this way for 35 years no need to change it now.

That is a lie plain and simple. Not a half truth, not a shade of gray but a F#CKING LIE.

That has never happeend before. The recent "pay proposal" sales pitch didn't include any airilnes that paid better than us (XJT, Comair et all.)

You ORD based?

XJT had not signed their extension yet at the time of our pay proposal. We still need to wait for a few other airlines to raise their pay. Once we can assure we stay competitive then we can leap frog above the other airlines without wasting our money on ALPA. Yes I am based in ORD. I still have an open invitation for anyone who wants to know who I am to come to chicago for my "Good Riddance ALPA" BBQ when the union drive fails. I will serve a lot better food than ALPA does however.

what can I do for ALPA?

Why should anyone have to do $hit for ALPA? The pilots are the ones paying the money its ALPAs job to get off their butts and get to work. Tell them to get their nose out of the politicians pooper and start working. Why pay money to an organization that is just gonna sit there spending your dues money on liquid lunches ? Then when you even question them they say the same tired cliches. YOU are ALPA blah blah blah. ALPA created those cheesy cliches to hide the fact they are a worthless, lazy, corrupt organization.

So basically you are telling us if we vote in ALPA we are gonna have to waste our money every month then get lectured about how we all need to get involved even though we pay the money? What a joke, thanks though you just helped ALPA lose even more votes here at SkyWest. If the pilots are paying all this money they shouldn't have to lift one finger. Boy the union has you guys brainwashed pretty good. Nice frosty ALPA koolaid. Sorry the SkyWest koolaid is the correct and better koolaid.

 

[ArcticFlier]

All you have to do is read the March 15 letter from ALPO to SkyWest/BH. They set a very hostile tone. They also said "on behalf of SkyWest pilots". They do not represent us yet and therefore can not talk on behalf of us.

Yet, time and again, you attempt to speak for me.

 

[thebest]

Lots of talk but no action. So when do ASA pilots get their contract? Remember this.........Well done is better than well said (B. Franklin)!

GO alpa?

 

[HelloNewman]

Yet, time and again, you attempt to speak for me.

Here is another example. Letter just dropped today by the OC.

Dear Fellow SkyWest Pilots,

As you may recall, the members of the SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee sent a letter to Brad Holt, Vice-President Flight Operations, on March 15, 2007 requesting a meeting to discuss our right to hear about and discuss the benefits of union representation. In that letter, we requested that SkyWest management give us access to the crewroom and other non-work related common areas for the purpose of distributing information about our organizing effort. We also offered to meet with Brad to discuss implementing our requests. Brad did not respond to our request or our offer to meet with him.

We felt that a reasonable next step was to follow up with Brad by phone. We contacted him last week and left a message on his voicemail. Todd Emerson, General Counsel for Operations, returned our call and informed us that it was management’s belief that they had no responsibility to grant us the access we requested, and therefore Brad would not meet with us.

We regret that management has chosen this path. Our request did not seek any special privileges or concessions; we only sought to exercise the rights of self-determination and organization guaranteed to us by the Railway Labor Act. The Railway Labor Act promotes and protects open and frank discussion about unionization and forbids management from interfering with or discriminating against supporters of ALPA in the exercise of those rights. We believe that SkyWest is violating our rights by barring us from use of common areas to provide information on our organizing effort.

We are currently discussing what next steps can be taken to resolve this conflict. Although we hope the issue can be resolved amicably, we are prepared to take the necessary steps to protect the basic rights of all SkyWest pilots.

The SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee

Who the hell do these people think they are? Have any pilots complained about the lack of ALPA information available? They call us all the time, they are always talking to newhires, they have fliers everywhere. Did they have access to V-files during the last campaign? If not why didn't they complain then? There is also a right to not be bombarded with union crap. These guys are really something else. I have never heard any pilot complain about the stuff these guys are whining about. What a waste of resources. There is no where in the RLA that says the company has to help ALPA get voted in. That is ALPAs job to convince us to vote for them. So far they are doing a piss poor job, especially with letters like this.

The tone just keeps getting more and more hostile. More and more pilots are getting fed up with crap like this. They are only hurting their cause not helping it. BTW still waiting for that VARS update that was due over a week ago. They are terrible at keeping promises but good at trying to ruin our relationship with management.

 

[s.o.sJTB]

Newman I am in the same ORD base as you, the pilots I speak to (aside from the new hires) are mostly supportive of the campaign. Who the hell do you think YOU are acting like you speak for any of us? More than half the cards have been turned in, that is 1250 cards from guys who have been here longer than 3 years mostly. Its the "this is better than my last job at Mesa/TSA/Etc" that needs to see the big picture.

 

[Nightrain_080]

The tone just keeps getting more and more hostile. More and more pilots are getting fed up with crap like this. They are only hurting their cause not helping it. BTW still waiting for that VARS update that was due over a week ago. They are terrible at keeping promises but good at trying to ruin our relationship with management.

By the end of the year it won't matter what the OC does or doesn't do.

When you want your blanket party it will be too late.

 

[BoilerUP]

Darn right it is. At SkyWest many of us prefer to let other airlines do the heavy lifting. We have thrived this way for 35 years no need to change it now.

Once again, you loudly proclaim you want to reap all the benefits from union airlines doing the dirty work and fighting for pay and workrule improvement without any of the liability or downside risk. You bash ALPA incessantly yet you are too cowardly to accept the challenge of championing your own cause and are content with whatever Atkin and Co. benevolently decides to give you.

You're nothing, if not consistent...consistently stupid, consistently greedy, consistently self-centered.

 

[HelloNewman]

By the end of the year it won't matter what the OC does or doesn't do.

You are correct because they either will get voted down or they will be stomping their feet that they don't have enough cards yet. 50% may have turned in the cards. During the drive in 1999 some 70-75% turned their cards in and the drive still failed. there were a lot less pilots in 1999 than in 2007. I am already getting my grill cleaned off for the GOODBYE ALPA 2007 BBQ, it may be 2008 depending on how long they drag their feet. They are clearly too scared to hold an election even with 50% of the cards back. They know this is a battle they can not win. They have already set the tone as to how they will behave by these ridiculous rants to BH and the pilots about not getting enough access. The company can not interfere but they do not have to assist in the union drive. The law is clear.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Dude I'm really beginning to think your not ORD, I think your really SGU. Or do you plan on fast tracking your way into a Mgmnt. position if the drive fails. Do us all a favor newman- Go jet is hiring street captains..

 

[thebest]

It doesn't matter who ya work for. alpa won't help you! Tell us, who have they helped since 911?

 

[thebest]

Here is another example. Letter just dropped today by the OC.



Who the hell do these people think they are? Have any pilots complained about the lack of ALPA information available? They call us all the time, they are always talking to newhires, they have fliers everywhere. Did they have access to V-files during the last campaign? If not why didn't they complain then? There is also a right to not be bombarded with union crap. These guys are really something else. I have never heard any pilot complain about the stuff these guys are whining about. What a waste of resources. There is no where in the RLA that says the company has to help ALPA get voted in. That is ALPAs job to convince us to vote for them. So far they are doing a piss poor job, especially with letters like this.

The tone just keeps getting more and more hostile. More and more pilots are getting fed up with crap like this. They are only hurting their cause not helping it. BTW still waiting for that VARS update that was due over a week ago. They are terrible at keeping promises but good at trying to ruin our relationship with management.

This OC are a bunch of DUMB SH!T'S! I glad I am at CP!

 

[Tarzan]

It doesn't matter who ya work for. alpa won't help you! Tell us, who have they helped since 911?

ALPA has helped many pilots that have railroaded by the company over honest mistakes. ALPA has helped other pilots that lost their medicals, regain them. APLA has helped provide insurance to pilots that could not get their medicals back but where still able to work elsewhere. (Pretty dang good insurance there.)

APLA has it's shortcomings, no doubt about it. But I'll take the legal assistance, the awesome insurance and protection from a predatory company over not having it. I don't agree with the way they do business but if we all voice our concerns, we can change the way things happen.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Here is another example. Letter just dropped today by the OC.



Who the hell do these people think they are? Have any pilots complained about the lack of ALPA information available? They call us all the time, they are always talking to newhires, they have fliers everywhere. Did they have access to V-files during the last campaign? If not why didn't they complain then? There is also a right to not be bombarded with union crap. These guys are really something else. I have never heard any pilot complain about the stuff these guys are whining about. What a waste of resources. There is no where in the RLA that says the company has to help ALPA get voted in. That is ALPAs job to convince us to vote for them. So far they are doing a piss poor job, especially with letters like this.

The tone just keeps getting more and more hostile. More and more pilots are getting fed up with crap like this. They are only hurting their cause not helping it. BTW still waiting for that VARS update that was due over a week ago. They are terrible at keeping promises but good at trying to ruin our relationship with management.

Well, you just have shown your true colors, Newmann. It look like your management has decided to violate FEDERAL LAW, and you support that action. So not only are you a lazy, self-centered SOB, but you believe that federal law (the RLA) can just be trampled all over. You sir, are a piece of work.

Rekks

 

[Brazilgun]

ALPA has helped many pilots that have railroaded by the company over honest mistakes. ALPA has helped other pilots that lost their medicals, regain them. APLA has helped provide insurance to pilots that could not get their medicals back but where still able to work elsewhere. (Pretty dang good insurance there.)

APLA has it's shortcomings, no doubt about it. But I'll take the legal assistance, the awesome insurance and protection from a predatory company over not having it. I don't agree with the way they do business but if we all voice our concerns, we can change the way things happen.

Hell, it sounds to me that the argument is always the same. Why doesn't ALPA then becomes a insurance company? It looks like it's all that they can and will do. A Union is way above and beyond medicals and incidents. It's to represent the pilots and FIGHT for what the pilot group(or majority for that matter) believes to be right. Has ALPA done that for you? I'm sorry but it hasn't for me.

 

[SkyNation]

that's the fantasy they sell. the want people to believe that ALPA is some sort-of 'gun' that they can brandish in the face of management and strong-arm them into getting what they want. it is my belief that once you have this 'us against them' attitude, you are already sunk, union or not.

(Unionistas, this is your cue to chime in on all the benefits they provide that I didn't mention)

 

[fried chickens]

Newman I am in the same ORD base as you, the pilots I speak to (aside from the new hires) are mostly supportive of the campaign. Who the hell do you think YOU are acting like you speak for any of us? More than half the cards have been turned in, that is 1250 cards from guys who have been here longer than 3 years mostly. Its the "this is better than my last job at Mesa/TSA/Etc" that needs to see the big picture.

So what is the big pictures? How many of OC have worked at ALPA carriers? How do they know ALPA will succeed at SkyWest when it has failed at more than one airline? Personally, I rather they spend time and pilots money trying to fix things at Mesa, TSA, Mesaba, ASA, Pinnacle then buying beer at Lofti's for people that aren't members.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hell, it sounds to me that the argument is always the same. Why doesn't ALPA then becomes a insurance company? It looks like it's all that they can and will do. A Union is way above and beyond medicals and incidents. It's to represent the pilots and FIGHT for what the pilot group(or majority for that matter) believes to be right. Has ALPA done that for you? I'm sorry but it hasn't for me.

It depends on what measuring stick you use...

If you look at ALPA in terms of what is the organization doing for me right now, then you can look at those tangible items.

What you don't see what ALPA does for the profession is much more profound. But in order to "see" you have to look. You have to activate.

ALPA is a political organization, not personal assistant to your career. ALPA doesn't wash you, put on your uniform and open coach door like a 18th Century Lordship would be treated....

There are many things that ALPA does nationally and internationally that most pilots don't know about. Why? Because pilot refuse to get connected. There are forces and changes occuring constantly, such as Open Skies, that effect your career. What do you know about Open Skies?

There are events, such as making a terrorist act akin to striking, that are stopped that you don't hear about, but if a legal job action were equating to an act of terrorism then you ability to negotiate a better BA would be seriously hampered..

Also, there is an expectation of ALPA, whether it is real or not, that ALPA is supposed to protect ones career. Well, yes, but it is not that simple and easy. In addition, management and the FAA doesn't have an obligation to listen to a pilots concern. ALPA does.

 

[Melfly]

Try this video presented by Unionfacts.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B0kFEYQNyE&eurl=http://unionfacts.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u9xkqtz-04&eurl=http://unionfacts.com/

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Try this video presented by Unionfacts.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B0kFEYQNyE&eurl=http://unionfacts.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u9xkqtz-04&eurl=http://unionfacts.com/

Are you kidding?

Those video's are so vague one could replace union boss with

CEO
Catholic Preist
Congressman

Anyone with a position of power...

Forced dues? How is that? Dues are known before joining a union?

Money going to politicans? Maybe outside of the RLA, but any money used for Congressional Campaigns is from voluntary contributions... In addition, your company will take money that you helped generate by your labor and give to politicans you don't like. You have no choice. At least with a union you can choose to give money and if you want to get connected you can help determine who is given the money.

Discrimination is a human action not exclusive to unions. Discrmination is done by gov't and companies too.

These videos are dumbed down to the lowest denominator... if you believe this stuff after a 30 sec. clip then its time to get unbiased data...

There are a few threads on unionfacts.com search them out and you'll see it is a very anti labor organization. The backers of unionfacts refuse to ID themselves.

 

[Melfly]

Take a chill pill man. The videos are funny.


I take it you like paying 2% of your income to keep your job also! No shame in that.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Take a chill pill man. The videos are funny.

Copy.. switching to chillin mode... they are funny...

I take it you like paying 2% of your income to keep your job also! No shame in that.

If I don't pay my taxes then I won't have the civil resources I need such as police, fire, etc....

Same with the dues... I do see the value in the 2%.

A concern is the new kids with 200 hours who are coming into the industry... there are realities to this career..and unionfacts.com is not one of them...

 

[rtmcfi]

Those videos are pretty funny. That said, I am betting all of those actors/actresses are card carrying members of the SAG (screen actors guild, aka the actors union). Despite my stunning good looks and quick wit, hollywood has yet to discover me. So I could be wrong about the SAG in relations to political commercials.

 

[ERJFO]

What ALPA has done for me

WHAT ALPA HAS DONE FOR ME:

1) Created one of the best contracts as far as work rules and compensation for 50 seat RJ pilots in the US for our pilot group to vote on. It was ratified.

2) Created multiple LOA's making our contract better in the few years since it was signed. Some were ratified, including one that clarified a commuter policy and improved reserve/line holder work rules. Another was voted down by the pilot group.

3) One of the above mentioned LOA's was a contract extension that was ratified by the pilot group. The extension also contained a few changes to our contract making it better for both line holders and reserves. Some of these changes dealt with trip-ownership, trip check-in, and an "aggressive pick-up" window for reserves was created. This LOA also included a subsection for charter operations so that charter flights would not be conducted as regular line flights (like they were in the past). Provisions included home-basing for charter pilots, a large override of almost $20 and hour, 14 protected days off, and a line value guarantee of 90 hours.

4) Won an arbitration against the company, because the company was not following one part of the above mentioned contract correctly due to a software issue. Retro pay and a reasonable implementation timeline were included in that deal.

ALPA has also helped countless other's by getting their medicals back, getting their jobs back, and keeping their jobs after unfortunate events. As far as I am concerned it's been well worth my 2% every month. Ask the two FEDEX pilots fired after they ran off a runway in the South Pacific if they are glad they have ALPA? I'm sure they'll tell you that after the thousands of dollars ALPA spent on litigation/court costs (all to no cost of the pilots) getting them their jobs back they are glad they spent their 2% each month.

It doesn't matter who ya work for. alpa won't help you! Tell us, who have they helped since 911?

Sorry I didn't get that to you sooner.

 

[HelloNewman]

Well, you just have shown your true colors, Newmann. It look like your management has decided to violate FEDERAL LAW, and you support that action. So not only are you a lazy, self-centered SOB, but you believe that federal law (the RLA) can just be trampled all over. You sir, are a piece of work.

Rekks

I do not believe the law says the company has to assist in any way shape or form. They are asking for unreasonable things period end of sentance. They want to use company resources to spread their propoganda. There are fliers up everywhere, they post all over the company boards and they always harass the newhires. If anyone is violating federal law it is the union for trying to intimidate the pilots into signing cards. The company has not interferred in any way. They certainly do not have to make the unions job easier. The union has to find a way to get their message out, the company does not have to assist at all. Federal law has not been violated. This is just a pathetic attempt for the OC to muster up interest in this already dying drive. The response from the pilots is lukewarm at best. They think ALPA is focusing on the wrong things, something they do very well.

They say want 70% of the cards back. Last time they had 70 % they still got voted down anyway.Thank god for that. I dare say that SkyWest would probably be out of buisness like ACA if that union drive passed in 1999. Basically the majority is not interested in actually voting for the union so this drama with letters back and forth is just one desperate gasp of air trying to keep intrest alive. It is actually turning people off.

[Quot=exskydiverdrivr]
Dude I'm really beginning to think your not ORD, I think your really SGU. Or do you plan on fast tracking your way into a Mgmnt. position if the drive fails. Do us all a favor newman- Go jet is hiring street captains.. [/Quote]

I do not work in SGU however I would not have a problem working in management. The people down there are quite nice. Pilots hate management because management deals in the real world not a pilot fantasy land. I won't leave here just because people disagree with my anti union view. I love the city of chicago and do not plan on leaving anytime soon. Feel free to leave though when the union drive fails.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

I won't give you the pleasure boy! So 6 time off requests in a row denied and I'm not livin in the real world? 97 hour line next mo. with forced flying (non commutable on the front side every week). PBS say's it was my first choice too! The only thing I'll agree with you on so far is that most of the people in SGU probably are nice guy's.

On that note- when you do boot-lick your way into a Mgmt position, please have the balls to announce it pubically! I bet you won't do it- you'll just keep hiding behind your little avatar.

Right now it sucks that I actually like Family Guy....

 

[~~~^~~~]

I would not have a problem working in management. The people down there are quite nice. Pilots hate management because management deals in the real world not a pilot fantasy land.

Oh? I remember it was me who was in the left seat of the jet with a NQP pilot when the braking action reports were poor and our hold over time was less time than it takes you to collect your thoughts. At that same moment management was at home, enjoying a hot cup of cocoa with their wives, having completed their work day.

When I was in management and made mistakes, there was always this little key that said "backspace" that would undo 99% of my errors without anyone being the wiser and more serious errors were often overlooked by my superiors as part of the learning curve. There were meetings, but no checkrides.

I'm not sure where "pilot fantasy land" is, but I think I would like to go there... I imagine that this "fantasy land" probably doesn't involve 05:30 duty ins, 14 hour days, lines with 330 hours away from base and immediate and long lasting consequences for innocent omissions. I imagine there would be no involuntary junior manning and comfortable quiet hotel rooms. There would be no lousy, unhealthy, food and no Doctors probing my neither-regions looking for goodness knows what. There would be no long waits on on the curb in the sleet, or 130 degree cockpits with deferred parts of the ECS. Certainly there would be no getting the smoking room and Jeppesen updates, or late bags.

When "successful" airline CEO's are on their third DUI while raking in millions for their perfomance spending millions on failed merger attempts & retirement funding grabs - I can't say I understand how you believe pilots are in "fantasy land" while those with office views are dealing with the "reality" of line operations.

How is it that pilots are in "fantasy land" when we are the productive part of the company? We produce the product, we earn the revenue. Why is it that airlines' gate agents, rampers, pilots and all of us who serve the customer are allegedly in "fantasy land" while those who only step foot in an airport occassionally are face to face with "reality?"

Newman, if you don't mind the question - how long have you been around this business? Yes, it takes management, and thankfully SkyWest management is a whole lot better connected to reality than you are.

 

[Gobi Gred]

Hellownewman, What did ALPA at ACA have to do with them going out of business? It was management's call to go independent. The sucess or failure of an airline is solely dependent on the people running it. Any airline that has failed in the last thirty years has been because of the dumba** who was in charge.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Fins.. no matter what.... despite the fact that we are in a million pieces on the side of a mountain... management will go home and sleep in thier own beds...

 

[ERJFO]

Hellownewman, What did ALPA at ACA have to do with them going out of business? It was management's call to go independent. The sucess or failure of an airline is solely dependent on the people running it. Any airline that has failed in the last thirty years has been because of the dumba** who was in charge.

True, the pilots also turned down another concesionary deal that would have helped the company.

 

[rtmcfi]

I do not believe the law says the company has to assist in any way shape or form. They are asking for unreasonable things period end of sentance.

Please tell us these unreasonable demands that ALPA is placing on the company.