skywest.alpa.org

[PCL_128]

PCL,

Uh, ok....that's great and wonderful but when you are being bought by a company that is non-union, what your contract says isn't gonna mean diddly. Secondly, I would hardly call DOH "fair and equitable". It would screw the Skywest pilots and their company is the one doing the buying.

Successorship language makes sure that any company that buys you is still beholden to the original CBA that was signed with the previous company. In other words, when Skywest bought ASA, they agreed to follow the terms of the ASA contract. That ensures that the merger terms in the contract will be followed by the new management group. As to what is fair and equitable, that's up for debate, and some sort of settlement would have to be reached. If an agreement can't be made, then an arbitrator will settle the integration. No matter what, Skywest cannot simply integrate the ASA pilots in any way they want just because they were the buyer.

 

[pipers]

My two cents.....

I think everybody is getting worked up too much when it comes to integration. The company has said repeatedly that they are not interested in intergration of the pilot groups until they see a need. Not that I agree but, I assume Jerry and the boyz in SGU are fine with the idea of two different pilot groups desiring additional flying.....they probably think their postition is more powerful. It would seem to be a big bargaining chip for them. Look at it now. Do they want to give up that position?

Also, why didn't Delta ever intergrate Comair and ASA? Maybe SKYW will keep the groups seperate for the same reasons, i.e. able to sell ASA at a future date, no major strikes that shut down multiple hubs, etc. They'll ask, "what if ASA and Comair had been one group and it shut down CVG and ATL?"

Anyhow, that being said, go ALPA, go bears.

 

[Berry McCockner]

When it comes to integration of seniority lists why does one company have to get the better of the other? Just a thought, and maybe I'm not seeing this very clear so help me out. What about a one to one merger. One asa pilot for every one skywst pilot. It seems to me that everyone would keep their relative seniority. No winners and no losers. Any thoughts?

 

[reno]

I personally think that is the fairest way it could be done. However, if SkyWest remains a non-ALPA carrier, I would expect ASA to show up with all the might of ALPA and fight for a better deal for themselves. If you are a SkyWest pilot, and you have faith in Brad Hold "doing the right thing" don't bother registering at www.alpa.org/skywest.

If you would like to have representation in case of a merger, and the basic ALPA bylaws which boil down to "fair and equitable to both sides" interest you, take the time to register at www.alpa.org/skywest

 

[theo]

Successorship language makes sure that any company that buys you is still beholden to the original CBA that was signed with the previous company. In other words, when Skywest bought ASA, they agreed to follow the terms of the ASA contract. That ensures that the merger terms in the contract will be followed by the new management group. As to what is fair and equitable, that's up for debate, and some sort of settlement would have to be reached. If an agreement can't be made, then an arbitrator will settle the integration. No matter what, Skywest cannot simply integrate the ASA pilots in any way they want just because they were the buyer.

Maybe if the certificate actually survived. However I don't believe anything protects you from an asset transfer. In that case the ASA side just gets smaller and smaller and the Skywest side gets bigger and bigger. Finally the ASA union represents no one and the non-union Skywest does what they choose to do. Given how many people still want to work at Skywest, that doesnt sound too bad. Probably will be better off if they did it.

 

[goodto50meters]

What your MEC says means nothing. Skywest is not union and if the pilots are smart, they will stay that way if ASA and Skywest merge. Why should you get DOH (where you have more senior people than Skywest) when the company doing the buying was Skywest? At best for ASA, it should be 1 ASA for every 2 Skywest.....and that would be generous.

Captain,

Why should your group enjoy a windfall at the expence of mine? Your airline bought a profitable entity of a non-profitable one. Just because your company did the 'buying' doesnt mean perfume in Paris.

Our companies are essentially similar, a DOH with certain fences is the fairest way to do this. There will be pockets of pilots that will be affected slightly one way and the other on BOTH SIDES.

Regards

 

[rtmcfi]

relative seniority..... I have yet to hear a good argument against it. Anyone want to convince me otherwise?

 

[goodto50meters]

Maybe if the certificate actually survived. However I don't believe anything protects you from an asset transfer. In that case the ASA side just gets smaller and smaller and the Skywest side gets bigger and bigger. Finally the ASA union represents no one and the non-union Skywest does what they choose to do. Given how many people still want to work at Skywest, that doesnt sound too bad. Probably will be better off if they did it.

Jerry didnt buy this place to watch it crater and pull SkyWest under with it. If such a ploy to axe ALPA/enforceable contract took place here it would backfire tragically for all of us. I dont think Jerry is that stupid. He could slowly bleed us to death but that would come at a price that puts the whole place under, Them included.

We are all in this together now and it will likely be under ALPA.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If I'm not mistaken ALPA has lost their last 3 representational votes. They are probably in no hurry to do SkyWest.

I like the marketing campaign - "Join us, or we will screw you."

 

[theo]

Jerry didnt buy this place to watch it crater and pull SkyWest under with it. If such a ploy to axe ALPA/enforceable contract took place here it would backfire tragically for all of us. I dont think Jerry is that stupid. He could slowly bleed us to death but that would come at a price that puts the whole place under, Them included.

We are all in this together now and it will likely be under ALPA.

I don't know if it is stupid. I bet a large number of ASA pilots would be tickled to death to work for Skywest with the current deal they fly under. A little incentive from Skywest..such as Longevity for pay and benefits purposes would probably go a long way in getting a large number to jump over. I guess the point is don't think because ASA is ALPA and Skywest is not that somehow ASA pilots would have the upper hand. They don't.

 

[Tomct]

Theo....if JA were to transfer all of the ASA assets and slowly bleed the company, you guys would certainly SCREW yourselves. You would totally be labled and all of those neat airplanes would end up parked! Your blessed skywst would crash just like a house of cards!
ALPA is the best way to protect everyone. We need to stop the whipsaw and become one group. DOH with fences is the best way to do things. No captains loosing their position and everyone pretty much staying where they are until there is another bid. Why should someone be placed above another when they were still in school while the other was flying the line. Can you explain the fairness in that? I think NOT! DOH with fences will be the way to go! Very few casualties...if any at all.
I hope that the skywst pilots get the vote done SOON!! End JA power over you guys/gals. Get yourselves a seat at the table where you have a say VS NOTHING but what he gives you!

 

[capt. megadeth]

First off, I don't work at Skywest or ASA. Second, if the integration was DOH, the Skywest pilots would get hosed. How is that fair?

Captain,

Why should your group enjoy a windfall at the expence of mine? Your airline bought a profitable entity of a non-profitable one. Just because your company did the 'buying' doesnt mean perfume in Paris.

Our companies are essentially similar, a DOH with certain fences is the fairest way to do this. There will be pockets of pilots that will be affected slightly one way and the other on BOTH SIDES.

Regards

 

[Texx]

First off, I don't work at Skywest or ASA. Second, if the integration was DOH, the Skywest pilots would get hosed. How is that fair?

Ah, sir. In the history of the airlines, when a merger has taken place, neither side comes out ahead. So to say the SKYW pilots would get screwed is not an accurate statement if you leave out the fact that some ASA pilots will be screwed.

 

[sweptback]

First off, I don't work at Skywest or ASA. Second, if the integration was DOH, the Skywest pilots would get hosed. How is that fair?

How would the skywest pilots get hosed? They'd actually come out quite well because the areas that they had large growth in (04-05), ASA hired little comparitively (and a lot have already left). So a DOH merger wouldn't be that bad to them, and they'd barely notice the ASA pilots.

If there was a percentage merger, the junior ASA pilots would get downright screwed. Especially since there's less ASA pilots than SkyWest, and attrition at ASA is mostly in the lower end.

 

[ya buoy]

My first reaction to some of the ASA pilot comments that resemble " give us DOH or we will release ALPA rath" is to get angry, but I have to believe it's a minority of the pilot group. I would like to think the majority of the group are relieved they are not wearing Comairs shoes.

Somebody just posted and I will reiterate his/her sarcasm " JOIN US OR WE WILL SCREW YOU"

What kind of attitude is that? In other words, become ALPA and we will kiss and be merry, or stay ALPAfree and we will attack you with the "might of ALPA" as someone just posted. F that. It's like saying you better get a union before a union tries to screw you.

Moving on, as a fairly junior SkyWest pilot and an extremely conservative capitalist DOH is unacceptable. Life is not always fair. I could be talked into a percentage style/ relative seniority merge.

 

[Plug]

Someone brought the fact that Skywest management plans to keep the airlines seperate until it becomes necessary to integrate. I think the biggest trigger for this is if the Skywest pilots vote in ALPA. Should this happen then management has some added expenses in negotiating a whole new deal with the Skywest pilots. This will be costly from an accounting stand point but also the relationship will sour if things get dragged out. Jerry also recognizes the added expense of redundancies with 2 airlines. My guess is that Jerry is waiting for us (ASA) to finish the contract, see how the ALPA drive turns out, and then combine as I think ALPA will end up on the property. This is a savings that are two fold (no contract negotiation as the Skywest pilots will fall under the new ASA agreement, and a management reduction with all the redundancies).

Just remember that if we are not integrated in to one then the whipsaw will prevail and as much as some don't like a union or paying dues I'll take it over the whipsaw! So if we agree that integration is preferred over whipsaw then might as well have ALPA so as to take advantage of the C&BL's for a merger because if not you may get hosed.

Cheers ya'll

 

[Plug]

My first reaction to some of the ASA pilot comments that resemble " give us DOH or we will release ALPA rath" is to get angry, but I have to believe it's a minority of the pilot group. I would like to think the majority of the group are relieved they are not wearing Comairs shoes.

Somebody just posted and I will reiterate his/her sarcasm " JOIN US OR WE WILL SCREW YOU"

What kind of attitude is that? In other words, become ALPA and we will kiss and be merry, or stay ALPAfree and we will attack you with the "might of ALPA" as someone just posted. F that. It's like saying you better get a union before a union tries to screw you.

Moving on, as a fairly junior SkyWest pilot and an extremely conservative capitalist DOH is unacceptable. Life is not always fair. I could be talked into a percentage style/ relative seniority merge.

Though I don't agree with the "murn the M.F. down" concept, you have to understand that if the Skywest pilots do not take the whipsaw threat seriously and do not vote for a union then you better believe the ASA pilots will look out for their own first. If that means you get screwed, oh well, you didn't want a say by voting "no" on ALPA. "You made your bed so sleep in it" mindset. Nothing personal, just business.

Cheers

 

[Plug]

Someone also brought up the fact that Delta never combined ASA and CMR. That is because there wasn't strong enough language in either contract to force the issue. It also allowed us to call Delta's bluff on wanting to keep costs down. When we were brought cost cutting ideas we brought up the fact that a merged ASA and CMR would cut a lot of costs. ALPA's EF&A helped us with that!

You better believe that the ASA pilots will have STRONG language in our next contract when it comes to successorship language.

 

[Berry McCockner]

Repeat post, but nobody responed the first time.

When it comes to integration of seniority lists why does one company have to get the better of the other? Just a thought, and maybe I'm not seeing this very clear so help me out. What about a one to one merger. One asa pilot for every one skywst pilot. It seems to me that everyone would keep their relative seniority. No winners and no losers. Any thoughts?

 

[~~~^~~~]

ALPA has now lost 4 out of its last 4 representational votes. The first loss was unheard of, the second was a shocker and the third was history making. Now it appears reality is sinking in and ALPA has realized in their "Strategic Plan and Assesment" that "With declining financial resources, ALPA’s first priority is to our current members. Organizing targets or mergers with independent pilot unions should not place a substantive burden on ALPA resources, and decisions should be financial as well as strategic in nature."

That is political speak for giving up.

 

[reno]

I can assure you that ALPA has not given up on SkyWest.

If you are a SkyWest pilot and have not yet registered, go to www.alpa.org/skywest and register now.

The organizing effort is alive and well.

 

[sweptback]

When it comes to integration of seniority lists why does one company have to get the better of the other? Just a thought, and maybe I'm not seeing this very clear so help me out. What about a one to one merger. One asa pilot for every one skywst pilot. It seems to me that everyone would keep their relative seniority. No winners and no losers. Any thoughts?

That only works if the pilot groups are the same size, and even then it's sketchy.

ASA has about 300-400 less pilots than SkyWest. A one-for-one deal would leave 300 junior SkyWest pilots out in the cold because they ran out of ASA pilots to merge with.

DOH is the only fair way. Anything else is a gimmick.

 

[utahpilot]

I bet a large number of ASA pilots would be tickled to death to work for Skywest with the current deal they fly under. .

BINGO!!!

I've had two different ASA pilot in our jumpseat in the last couple of months, and both of them have expressed this exact sentiment. Both said that we make more, have better scheduling, benefits, etc.

 

[Plug]

Repeat post, but nobody responed the first time.

When it comes to integration of seniority lists why does one company have to get the better of the other? Just a thought, and maybe I'm not seeing this very clear so help me out. What about a one to one merger. One asa pilot for every one skywst pilot. It seems to me that everyone would keep their relative seniority. No winners and no losers. Any thoughts?

Hey Berry, sorry about the repeat, damn fat fingers! ;-)

As you know seniority is everything. However, if you don't have anything to fly then seniority don't mean jack. That being said, the first priority for the ASA pilots is to secure a new working agreement which will most likely include successorship language. Next would be to implement said language. We realize that having a good contract, much like seniority, doesn't mean jack with no airplanes. That is why it is very important to get ALPA on the property so that you have a say in what happens with integration. Someone always get screwed in a merger, but it is a lot less of a screwing than what the whipsaw will do. If ALPA isn't voted in at Skywest and an integration is agreed upon then ASA will be doing all the talking and the Skywest pilots won't have a leg to stand on. I don't feel that this is right but at the same time I don't care to be whipsawed and if you don't want to play your hand then I win.

Like I said, it's nothing personal but I am looking out for my best interests.

 

[Plug]

To add to previous post.

That doesn't mean straight, unrestricted DOH to F*ck the Skywest pilots as that would be a winfall for ASA.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I can assure you that ALPA has not given up on SkyWest.

If you are a SkyWest pilot and have not yet registered, go to www.alpa.org/skywest and register now.

The organizing effort is alive and well.

Dude....if you guys/gals go ALPA and get hosed by it later, the only reason I won't laugh at you is because my fiancee is going to be very grumpy since he will be getting hosed. Are you nuts???? This is NOT the time to be unionizing. You have no idea how good you have it. Have you ever been at any other airline other than Skywest?

 

[Illinois]

I hate to say it, but date of hire with fences is the best way to screw eachother equally.

 

[theo]

Theo....if JA were to transfer all of the ASA assets and slowly bleed the company, you guys would certainly SCREW yourselves. You would totally be labled and all of those neat airplanes would end up parked! Your blessed skywst would crash just like a house of cards!
ALPA is the best way to protect everyone. We need to stop the whipsaw and become one group. DOH with fences is the best way to do things. No captains loosing their position and everyone pretty much staying where they are until there is another bid. Why should someone be placed above another when they were still in school while the other was flying the line. Can you explain the fairness in that? I think NOT! DOH with fences will be the way to go! Very few casualties...if any at all.
I hope that the skywst pilots get the vote done SOON!! End JA power over you guys/gals. Get yourselves a seat at the table where you have a say VS NOTHING but what he gives you!

I just have a hard time with ALPA supporters continuing to play on a fear of ALPA as the best reason to vote ALPA in. Sounds sorta like the Mob offering to provide "Protection". You talk about how powerless Skywest pilots are yet I still contend that most pilots would prefer to work for Skywest as it is today as opposed to ASA or most other Regional carriers. The management is good and they have continued to be profitable and innovative. If there is ever a vote...which is still a BIG question dont be so sure ALPA will be voted in. I think a lot of people just don't respond well to threats.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

What the ASA guys are posting is not winning any converts to ALPA.

How's this for fair integration?
ASA pilots get DOH in ATL but go to the bottom the list for their seat in other domciles?

SKYW pilots keep their seniority within their system as is but they go the bottom the list for their seat if they go to ATL.

If ASA base in SLC is to remain open then some sort of integration limited to that base and those specific pilots is put into motion. The idea is basically to create a permanent fence. ASA pilots should be able to keep their seniority intact at their base and SKYW pilots keep their seniority intact at their bases. Nobody gets downgraded if they leave their domicile but they do go to the bottom of the list for that seat and equipment. So all the SKYW pilots flocking to ATL will not cause any grief for the ASA guys who hired on with the expectation of a career in ATL.

Sound fair?

 

[capt. megadeth]

Sound fair?

Whoa!!!!!

I still remember you as the dude that would get offended if anyone said Merry Christmas to you, but you are not completely crazy afterall.

That sounds like the best way to do it, IMHO.

How would upgrade awards, vacations, etc. work that way?