skywest.alpa.org

[Rogue5]

Whoa!!!!!

I still remember you as the dude that would get offended if anyone said Merry Christmas to you, but you are not completely crazy afterall.

Dave's no longer commuting.

I'd imagine that does wonders for one's perspective on life...

 

[rtmcfi]

How would the skywest pilots get hosed? They'd actually come out quite well because the areas that they had large growth in (04-05), ASA hired little comparitively (and a lot have already left). So a DOH merger wouldn't be that bad to them, and they'd barely notice the ASA pilots.

If there was a percentage merger, the junior ASA pilots would get downright screwed. Especially since there's less ASA pilots than SkyWest, and attrition at ASA is mostly in the lower end.

How would a percentage/relative seniority integration screw ASA any worse than SkyWest? If you were mid pack before the integration, you are mid pack after. If you were bottom reserve before, you still are. Where is the screwing?

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Whoa!!!!!

I still remember you as the dude that would get offended if anyone said Merry Christmas to you, but you are not completely crazy afterall.

Another total misread of what I wrote. I could care less how someone greets me during the holiday season. What I said is that it's probably best to just say Happy Holidays to the passengers.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Another total misread of what I wrote.

That happens to me all the time.

 

[sweptback]

How would a percentage/relative seniority integration screw ASA any worse than SkyWest? If you were mid pack before the integration, you are mid pack after. If you were bottom reserve before, you still are. Where is the screwing?

A percentage merger would screw ASA pilots because of the more stagnant senority list over here. Most of the pilots leaving are relatively new, and due to the growth at SkyWest, there are a lot of relatively junior pilots that would end up senior to guys that have been at ASA for a few years if a percentage merger is pursued.

DOH plus fences is the only fair way. That way a pilot at ASA for 2 years is senior to a pilot at SkyWest who has been there 1 year. How is that screwing anybody? Fences will be put up so that no ASA pilot can steal a seat in a SkyWest base (and vice versa, which is also fair), and everybody will be able to keep their seat and base. As a matter of fact I'd totally be fine with fences almost keeping the companies totally separate for years, as long as I got DOH on one list. I have no plans to leave ATL!

Everybody would benefit because there would be one list, and we'd all benefit from growth. It would be a great solution. Still, this is an academic exercise because I don't think the merger committee (if it comes to that) will consult Flightinfo.

 

[Texx]

BINGO!!!

I've had two different ASA pilot in our jumpseat in the last couple of months, and both of them have expressed this exact sentiment. Both said that we make more, have better scheduling, benefits, etc.

Ah yes but as Jerry told us about Skywest Airlines, "I can change the rules at anytime"!

Get it on paper. I would think that you have learned after the pay rate thing several years ago.

 

[Lebowski]

A percentage merger would screw ASA pilots because of the more stagnant senority list over here. Most of the pilots leaving are relatively new, and due to the growth at SkyWest, there are a lot of relatively junior pilots that would end up senior to guys that have been at ASA for a few years if a percentage merger is pursued.

DOH plus fences is the only fair way. That way a pilot at ASA for 2 years is senior to a pilot at SkyWest who has been there 1 year. How is that screwing anybody? Fences will be put up so that no ASA pilot can steal a seat in a SkyWest base (and vice versa, which is also fair), and everybody will be able to keep their seat and base. As a matter of fact I'd totally be fine with fences almost keeping the companies totally separate for years, as long as I got DOH on one list. I have no plans to leave ATL!

Everybody would benefit because there would be one list, and we'd all benefit from growth. It would be a great solution. Still, this is an academic exercise because I don't think the merger committee (if it comes to that) will consult Flightinfo.

"Everbody would benefit" by doing a DOH integration? Come on. That's completely untrue, which is why SkyWest pilots tend to be against what you are suggesting. Some pilots at ASA would benefit from that, by being catapulted over many SkyWest pilots on the merged seniority list.

That is not the "only fair" way. In fact, it's not fair at all. If that were true, then there would be no debate. To suggest that this is fair to "everybody" is somewhat biased in my opinion. Just because it's good for you, doesn't make it good for "everybody."

Under this scenario, many Captains at SkyWest could end up swapping places with F.O.s at ASA. Do you think these SkyWest Captains would agree with your statement that "everybody would benefit" by DOH integration? As bases change or shut down, the "with fences" part of the DOH integration you suggest becomes meaningless. Many SkyWest pilots would simply lose their overall seniority position and ASA pilots would gain seniority at the expense of the SkyWest group.

On the other hand, with a percentage integration, everyone keeps their relative position. That's fair to me, even when I take a step back from my personal stake in it. If I really wanted to push for my personal stake, then I'd say ASA should get stapled, but I think that would be unfair to our brothers and sisters at ASA.

At one extreme end of this issue, SkyWest pilots could push for a staple. At the other extreme end, ASA pilots could push for DOH integration. In the middle, there's percentage-based integration. No windfall for anyone. Let's keep our heads on straight and work this out together when/if the time comes.

I do agree with you that one list will make us a more powerful group, and I welcome a merged list for that reason. I also happen to like all of the ASA pilots I've met.

Lebowski

 

[Socalplt]

Percentage based integration with a 3-5 year fence. I'm at the 30% level at SkyWest but would only be around 50% at ASA. DOH would screw me and a bunch of other SkyWest guys over.

 

[surplus1]

I have no dog in your hunt but for those of you worrying about getting screwed, you might want to consider this.

In any merger, the ONLY person that doesn't get "screwed" is the guy that winds up as #1 on the new list.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Percentage based integration with a 3-5 year fence. I'm at the 30% level at SkyWest but would only be around 50% at ASA. DOH would screw me and a bunch of other SkyWest guys over.

If you are at 30 % than you would be at 30 % on a percentage based integration. Thats what a % integration does vs. straight DOH.

 

[propsarebest]

one question...

WHO BOUGHT WHO???

 

[Socalplt]

If you are at 30 % than you would be at 30 % on a percentage based integration. Thats what a % integration does vs. straight DOH.

Yeah, I know, thats why I favor it!

 

[Blucher]

Can anyone say Riots?

one question...

WHO BOUGHT WHO???

Hey Props,
An interesting point. However, a relative seniority merger would likely be least harmful. Seriously, if some of our most senior guys were suddenly junior to a 6 monther over at Skywest I truly do believe stuff would start to spontaneously combust on the ramp. No joke. Some these guys have been in the joint before, and I don't know that they'd mind going back. "Three hots and a cot" is almost better than how we're being treated right now.

-Blucher:bomb:

 

[PCL_128]

one question...

WHO BOUGHT WHO???

I've got a more important question...

Who has the contractual language to protect themselves???

Got ALPA?

 

[theo]

I've got a more important question...

Who has the contractual language to protect themselves???

Got ALPA?

PCL 128 still trying the scare tactics. Better change your name to Vito Coerleone! Another question could be How fast can Skywest transfer assets
to Skywest from ASA making ASA ALPA less and less relevant?

 

[BoilerUP]

...about as fast as ASA pilots take to burn TMF to the ground.

 

[Texx]

1. Full list percentage, not fair either.

2. Won't happen.

3. Could push who? Jerry?

You extreme positions are like an old woman with mood swings. DOH and staple are not in the card and the percentage would not work for the full list.

 

[D'Angelo]

Maybe skywest should get an inhouse union. Make ALPO drool about getting 1500 new dues or however many pilots they have now. Then while alpa is so busy drooling over dues they pull a TWA move ALA the APA. ALPO is so easy to distract, just see what they let happen to TWA.

 

[Lebowski]

1. Full list percentage, not fair either.

2. Won't happen.

3. Could push who? Jerry?

You extreme positions are like an old woman with mood swings. DOH and staple are not in the card and the percentage would not work for the full list.

1. Why not?

2. Why not?

3. I don't know. Do you think ALPA will save you from everything and SkyWest pilots are at a huge disadvantage? If that's your point (and I'm not even sure that it is), then maybe you're right. I have no idea. I was simply pointing out that DOH is not "fair for everybody." You must have some kind of issue with that. I have yet to see a sound argument why a percentage integration would be unfair. Saying things like "won't happen" and "it's unfair" does not constitute a sound argument, regardless of your emotions on the issue.

I don't get your "old woman with mood swings" comment. I'm simply trying to point out the two extreme positions. Disagree if you like. ASA--even with the help of ALPA--is not in a position to staple SkyWest, since they were acquired. So, I'd say the most favorable outcome for ASA would be a DOH integration. Likewise, I'd say the most favorable outcome for SkyWest would be a staple. However, I'm in no way advocating that. What's in the middle of those two extremes? Some kind of percentage merger.

Anyway, it may or may not even happen. I just get tired of seeing some people say that DOH is fair. It's not. It would result in a windfall for many ASA pilots.

 

[goodto50meters]

I just get tired of seeing some people say that DOH is fair. It's not. It would result in a windfall for many ASA pilots.

A staple is not going to happen because it is a windfall for the SkyWest Pilots.

OTOH:

There are ways to mitigate the percieved windfall in a DOH. This is why there should be fences and no system flush. Or perhaps a hybrid. There are areas in the seniority lists where pockets of ASA & SkyWest pilots would gain or lose unproportionately. In those areas use slotted percentages, DOH for the rest....could work...

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

Weed them OUt!

Hey Props,
An interesting point. However, a relative seniority merger would likely be least harmful. Seriously, if some of our most senior guys were suddenly junior to a 6 monther over at Skywest I truly do believe stuff would start to spontaneously combust on the ramp. No joke. Some these guys have been in the joint before, and I don't know that they'd mind going back. "Three hots and a cot" is almost better than how we're being treated right now.

-Blucher:bomb:

We are already weeding out the trailer trash. SKyWest is sending ASA back to ATL...NO JOKE!!! Dream on about DOH all you want. It won't happen.