skywest.alpa.org

[Lebowski]

A few questions:

1. Does anyone have any credible info on when the ALPA drive will happen?

2. Because I know some people will say "when enough people register at skywest.alpa.org" in response to the above question: Is there a reason why ALPA doesn't provide info on specific numbers of SkyWest pilots who have signed up? It seems it would be helpful to say something like, "We've had 1,200 pilots provide their contact information. If we get 200 more, we'll petition the NMB." Or something along those lines...just some basic status. Is there really no established timeline or are they just not revealing it yet?

3. What's ALPA's position on a possible seniority list merger with ASA? Can we find out now what the specific strategy would be for SkyWest/ASA before there's an ALPA vote?

 

[capt. megadeth]

Why do Skywest pilots want ALPA on Skywest property? You have better perks, pay, benefits, etc. than some regionals that are ALPA.

 

[D'Angelo]

I have to agree look at the situation comair has been forced into and ALPA is on the property. You know what they say careful what you wish for.

 

[~~~^~~~]

A few questions:

1. Does anyone have any credible info on when the ALPA drive will happen?

2. Because I know some people will say "when enough people register at skywest.alpa.org" in response to the above question: Is there a reason why ALPA doesn't provide info on specific numbers of SkyWest pilots who have signed up? It seems it would be helpful to say something like, "We've had 1,200 pilots provide their contact information. If we get 200 more, we'll petition the NMB." Or something along those lines...just some basic status. Is there really no established timeline or are they just not revealing it yet?

3. What's ALPA's position on a possible seniority list merger with ASA? Can we find out now what the specific strategy would be for SkyWest/ASA before there's an ALPA vote?

1. When ALPA has time and negotiating capital to address "regional" pilot issues. They have not had time in the past 5 years. Tomorrow is not looking good either. The focus is on mainline and ALPA does not particularly want another bunch of pesky RJ drivers who demand fair representation.
2. See the response to question #1. Last I heard, it was a "stealth" organizing campaign. What ever, who wins a political election on "stealth."
3. ASA and Comair had agreed on DOH, although that never happened.

In the history of ALPA mergers, the list has always been based on equipment type and paycheck. That sounds a lot like DOH to me, but I'm sure there would be all kinds of fences to keep anyone from being harmed. Heck they could leave a lifetime fence in for bidding for all I care.

The benefit (a very important benefit) is that you would have one list and one contract at SkyWest. ASA would not be losing 5 CRJ700's to SkyWest and in the future SkyWest would not have to worry about losing airplanes to ASA. Together we are stronger and can work in a more equitable (pleasant) environment.

ALPA is the only organization that can facilitate that merger. I don't have much faith in Teamsters.

Yes ALPA has horrible problems, but the best option appears to be ALPA membership with a little extra money going to the RJDC to keep things at least accountable, if not completely fair.

 

[ya buoy]

Explain what Alpa has done for: USAir, United, Delta, Northwest, Mesa, Air Wisconsin, Pinnacle, American Eagle, Trans-States.

Explain

Explain, to me what more ALPA is than an insurance policy for a pilot who can't show up to work on-time/sober, can't behave with professionalism, or bends aluminum due to careless, wreckless behavior.

I am aware I will eat crow with ExpressJet guys, But my one or two exceptions out of hundreds is what it is.

 

[sweptback]

Explain what Alpa has done for: USAir, United, Delta, Northwest, Mesa, Air Wisconsin, Pinnacle, American Eagle, Trans-States.

You do realize Air Wisconsin has about the best RJ contract out there right now? ALPA is directly responsible for that. It sounds like ALPA is also working to get back pay for the money conceded.

American Eagle also has a better than industry average contract. Yes, they have problems with flowbacks and stuff, but they have decent contractual provisions. Plus they integrated their senority lists to reduce the whipsaw. Smart if you ask me, even if they had to lock themselves into a long-term contract. Everything has a price, and the Eagle pilots were smart enough to realize that.

ALPA will be directly instrumental in the USAir/AmWest integration. I bet the remaining guys on the property will be glad to have them.

The rest of the regional airlines sound like they have a pretty weak MEC, and therefore their current conditions reflect that. Remember that ALPA national has little to do with the local representation -- it's all pilot volunteers.

As for the major airlines you listed, what else can you expect? They're all in Chapter 11, so what, they should get a pay raise? Yes, they gave concessions, and yes they got screwed by management, but what should they have done? I don't see how this is the fault of ALPA. I bet their pilot groups were grateful that they at least had to negotiate the concessions rather than have them imposed.

Although it sounds like I am an ALPA cheerleader, I'm really not. But I don't see why everybody blames the union for everything wrong in the industry. I bet in 2000 nobody was making these same arguments.

 

[BoilerUP]

Explain what Alpa has done for: USAir, United, Delta, Northwest, Mesa, Air Wisconsin, Pinnacle, American Eagle, Trans-States.

ALPA got United, Delta, Comair & Air Wisconsin industry-leading contracts. A Chapter 11 judge facilitated the gutting of United, Delta & Comair's contracts (however, each pilot group ratified the concessions).

It can be argued that ALPA "failed" Mesa, but the pilot group ratified their contract in the face of Freedom and their highly ineffective MEC is in the process of being replaced.

A better argument could be made about the TSA MEC ratifying the contract extension a few years back, but they told Uncle Hulie to pound sand when faced with a terrible TA providing furlough protection to Go Jet pukes.

Please explain to me how ALPA failed Pinnacle. I would also like to know how ALPA failed American Eagle.

ALPA CAN'T PREVENT MANAGEMENT WHIPSAW! ALPA is only as strong as each airline's pilot group and MEC. You can b!tch about ALPA or you can get involved. Don't believe all the propaganda on www.unionfacts.com...

 

[ya buoy]

dues add up

Ya know I ask the real question and as I expected all I get is mostly ALPA rhetoric. Sure when times are good alpa can get you a great contract, but when times get tough it isn't worth the paper it's written on.

ALPA protects the weakest link, that is all they are good for, it is fact their juicy contracts bend with the breeze.

-In response to SWEPTBACK an BOILERUP (nothing personal)
-AWAC, what good is a contract if you find yourself losing flying
-Eagle is a disaster, I'll let an Eagle pilot explain
-Ask a furloughed USAIR pilot what he thinks about ALPA
-I did'nt say ALPA failed anyone(Pinnacle/Eagle), the question was again: What have they done for them, if your answer is contract, well, seriously...

Look, my response was not a "my airline is better than yours" pissing contest. So don't take this as a personal hit. If your on the fence with this issue, do your own homework and base your vote on facts not promises. Pilots need to use more common sense, your dues add up.

 

[sweptback]

Look, my response was not a "my airline is better than yours" pissing contest. So don't take this as a personal hit. If your on the fence with this issue, do your own homework and base your vote on facts not promises. Pilots need to use more common sense, your dues add up.

Pretty big talk for somebody with 1300 hours and no airline types in his profile. Most people like you come into the industry all shiny-eyed, thinking that a union is unnecessary. You'll see in a few years. Could there be a better way? Sure. But nobody's found one yet.

 

[BoilerUP]

Ya know I ask the real question and as I expected all I get is mostly ALPA rhetoric. Sure when times are good alpa can get you a great contract, but when times get tough it isn't worth the paper it's written on.

That's not the fault of ALPA - its a result of Chapter 11 proceedings. I'd hope you are smart enough to understand that.

ALPA protects the weakest link, that is all they are good for, it is fact their juicy contracts bend with the breeze.
-In response to SWEPTBACK an BOILERUP (nothing personal)
-AWAC, what good is a contract if you find yourself losing flying

-Eagle is a disaster, I'll let an Eagle pilot explain
-Ask a furloughed USAIR pilot what he thinks about ALPA
-I did'nt say ALPA failed anyone(Pinnacle/Eagle), the question was again: What have they done for them, if your answer is contract, well, seriously...[/quote]

You asked what ALPA has done for those airlines, and I told you. I asked you how ALPA failed those airlines, and you dodged my question. I have a better question for you know - How are any of those things the fault of ALPA?

Look, my response was not a "my airline is better than yours" pissing contest. So don't take this as a personal hit. If your on the fence with this issue, do your own homework and base your vote on facts not promises. Pilots need to use more common sense, your dues add up.

I'm not on the fence over the issue with ALPA. I'm about as conservative as they come, and I didn't understand the need for a union until I got into the aviation industry. The problems you've mentioned are the cause of mismanagement, not the fault of ALPA or its policies. Nothing personal, but you can't be so stupid that you don't understand that.

One last question for ya:

What exactly do you expect ALPA to do?

 

[BoilerUP]

Ya know I ask the real question and as I expected all I get is mostly ALPA rhetoric. Sure when times are good alpa can get you a great contract, but when times get tough it isn't worth the paper it's written on.

That's not the fault of ALPA - its a result of Chapter 11 proceedings. I'd hope you are smart enough to understand that.

ALPA protects the weakest link, that is all they are good for, it is fact their juicy contracts bend with the breeze.
-In response to SWEPTBACK an BOILERUP (nothing personal)
-AWAC, what good is a contract if you find yourself losing flying
-Eagle is a disaster, I'll let an Eagle pilot explain
-Ask a furloughed USAIR pilot what he thinks about ALPA
-I did'nt say ALPA failed anyone(Pinnacle/Eagle), the question was again: What have they done for them, if your answer is contract, well, seriously...

You asked what ALPA has done for those airlines, and I told you. I asked you how ALPA failed those airlines, and you dodged my question. I have a better question for you know - How are any of those things the fault of ALPA?

Look, my response was not a "my airline is better than yours" pissing contest. So don't take this as a personal hit. If your on the fence with this issue, do your own homework and base your vote on facts not promises. Pilots need to use more common sense, your dues add up.

I'm not on the fence over the issue with ALPA. I'm about as conservative as they come, and I didn't understand the need for a union until I got into the aviation industry. The problems you've mentioned are the cause of mismanagement, not the fault of ALPA or its policies. Nothing personal, but you can't be so stupid that you don't understand that.

One last question for ya:

What exactly do you expect ALPA to do?

 

[sunchaser]

I am not a big pro-ALPA cheerleader, however it is the only form of checks and balance proffession pilots have in the industry. The biggest problem for any pilot union, is the Railway Labor Act and how it is imposed. The other is a lack of education that the "new" guys have. Not bashing, just that with all the growth in the reigionals over the last few years, the old guys are not there to pass on the wisdom. The Unions are only as strong and smart as the people that are in them and willing to spend the time to fight. ALPA is democratic, and if a pilot group votes in a bad contract, they have no one to blame but themselves. Not ALPA... And Mesa pilots can't be blamed, they were fighting Freedom, so JO had them over a barrel. Vote in the bad contract, or have the non-union shop steeling the flying. No winning with either choice. And on the oppsite side ACA ALPA had alot of talent on the MEC and never took concessions that were not NEEDED. It's a sh!t sandwich, but ALPA or Teamsters is all we got. And Teamsters think that we're truck drivers....

 

[rtmcfi]

AWAC, what good is a contract if you find yourself losing flying

Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see the connection here. ALPA did not take away AWAC's flying.

If you are going to blame ALPA for the loss of UAL codeshare, are you going to give ALPA credit for the following?

Not 1 pilot at AWAC has been furloughed as a result of ZW's move. They are still hiring in fact. Upgrade time has dropped. AWAC pilots are getting a raise in about a week.

 

[utahpilot]

Not 1 pilot at AWAC has been furloughed as a result of ZW's move. They are still hiring in fact. Upgrade time has dropped. AWAC pilots are getting a raise in about a week.

true. however, how many have left as a result of the move? how many total pilots are on the list now, and how many were prior to their losing the UAL flying?

as a former ZW pilot, my question is a little disingenuous since I already know the answer. tons of folks were finally fed up and left for a variety of reasons. for many it has been good since it hastened their moving on to someplace different, or better. some left aviation, retired early, etc.

I think the point to be made is ALPA did not CAUSE nor PREVENT what happened there, though there are arguments for each side.

work where you're happy, be happy with your work, I always say.

UP

 

[rtmcfi]

I think the point to be made is ALPA did not CAUSE nor PREVENT what happened there

I could not possibly agree more....

ALPA is a tool for use by pilots. ALPA gets entirely too much blame as well as credit for the state of affairs in the industry. Hopefully OO will be able to use this tool at some point.

 

[reno]

A few questions:

1. Does anyone have any credible info on when the ALPA drive will happen?

2. Because I know some people will say "when enough people register at skywest.alpa.org" in response to the above question: Is there a reason why ALPA doesn't provide info on specific numbers of SkyWest pilots who have signed up? It seems it would be helpful to say something like, "We've had 1,200 pilots provide their contact information. If we get 200 more, we'll petition the NMB." Or something along those lines...just some basic status. Is there really no established timeline or are they just not revealing it yet?

3. What's ALPA's position on a possible seniority list merger with ASA? Can we find out now what the specific strategy would be for SkyWest/ASA before there's an ALPA vote?

Here are direct answers to your questions:

There is not a specific timeline for when a ALPA drive will happen at SkyWest. It will happen when a great majority of SkyWest pilots register at www.alpa.org/skywest and provide their contact information. This could happen next month or 5 years from now. I'll explain...

SkyWest management will not hand over a database of the pilot group. ALPA does not desire to have a campaign if they can not reach all SkyWest pilots. Registering at www.alpa.org/skywest will allow ALPA to contact pilots to give information about the benefits of ALPA when a drive begins. Once a pilot receives the information, they can vote in favor or against ALPA.

We beleive the great majority of those who take the time to register will ultimately vote in favor of representation by ALPA.

It would be nice to give play by play details of the organizing effort, but we don't feel it is in our best interest to advertise our progress to management at this time.

We have many hundreds of pilots registered at www.alpa.org/skywest. We have enough to petition the NMB for a vote. We do not have the number registered as of today that we want before a campaign starts. We do not want to have a vote, and win, without a substantial majority of SkyWest pilots in favor of getting ALPA on property.

Regarding merger policy. Today we have SAPA and no direction regarding merger policy. If SGU decides to integrate, who will represent SkyWest? ALPA policy dictates that if both carriers are ALPA, the merger will be fair and equitable to both sides. ALPA has 60 plus years of experience in mergers. ALPA has lawyers who specialize in mergers. SAPA has zero experience and no legal fund.

Detailed information will be presented when an official organizing drive begins.

At this time, register at www.alpa.org/skywest and encourage all SkyWest pilots to do the same. ALPA will answer any and all questions when the drive begins. At that time vote your concience. But get educated. And vote.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Inever took concessions that were not NEEDED. It's a sh!t sandwich, but ALPA or Teamsters is all we got. And Teamsters think that we're truck drivers....

Yaknow,
I am not a teamsters fan, but a little of their attitude would go a long way. I dont recall any truck drivers taking lower pay to drive a shiny new truck. STS, shiny truck syndrome, nope never heard of that happening.
PBR

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

bounce

Yaknow,
I am not a teamsters fan, but a little of their attitude would go a long way. I dont recall any truck drivers taking lower pay to drive a shiny new truck. STS, shiny truck syndrome, nope never heard of that happening.
PBR

Which Airlines currently use da Teamsters???

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Which Airlines currently use da Teamsters???

My Bad,
goo-jetz has signed up, maybe the teamsters will take em to skool. Not holding my breath though, once a $hit eater always a $hit eater.
PBR
P.S. I was thinking old school, Hoffa style teamsters, ya know knee breakers ect.

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

My Bad,
goo-jetz has signed up, maybe the teamsters will take em to skool. Not holding my breath though, once a $hit eater always a $hit eater.
PBR
P.S. I was thinking old school, Hoffa style teamsters, ya know knee breakers ect.

The old school would be nice...

 

[49W]

Teamsters got it done at World.

 

[MYFpilot]

Here are direct answers to your questions:

If SGU decides to integrate, who will represent SkyWest?

Actually it's already been decided and approved by Mr. Mooney at the FAA. Integration based on DOH, 2 SkyWest pilots for every 1 ASA pilot starting 18 months from the original date of purchase. 5 year fence for domicile/equipment transfers between previous ASA & SkyWest domiciles.

 

[sunchaser]

Old school Teamsters, yes... Teamsters now, no.. I was ALPA and now a Teamster.. Hands down ALPA was better in everything. I have no idea what my union is doing for me here, or who my rep is. The company walks all over the contract and the Teamsters do NOTHING. The pilot group is to scared to stand up because of the history of the company letting peolpe go who have. So ALPA is bad but Teamster now have no guts to do anything...

 

[goodto50meters]

Actually it's already been decided and approved by Mr. Mooney at the FAA. Integration based on DOH, 2 SkyWest pilots for every 1 ASA pilot starting 18 months from the original date of purchase. 5 year fence for domicile/equipment transfers between previous ASA & SkyWest domiciles.

You're smoking crack. Or Mr. Mooney is...

First, the FAA has nothing to do with seniority mergers.
Second, Our MEC has said for a long while that a DOH with seat-fences is the supported integration method.

 

[goodto50meters]

I have to agree look at the situation comair has been forced into and ALPA is on the property. You know what they say careful what you wish for.

D,

Your new office next to Fred Buttrell is ready for immediate occupancy.

Dont stick anything through the hole in the wall.

 

[capt. megadeth]

You're smoking crack. Or Mr. Mooney is...

First, the FAA has nothing to do with seniority mergers.
Second, Our MEC has said for a long while that a DOH with seat-fences is the supported integration method.

What your MEC says means nothing. Skywest is not union and if the pilots are smart, they will stay that way if ASA and Skywest merge. Why should you get DOH (where you have more senior people than Skywest) when the company doing the buying was Skywest? At best for ASA, it should be 1 ASA for every 2 Skywest.....and that would be generous.

 

[PCL_128]

What your MEC says means nothing. Skywest is not union and if the pilots are smart, they will stay that way if ASA and Skywest merge. Why should you get DOH (where you have more senior people than Skywest) when the company doing the buying was Skywest? At best for ASA, it should be 1 ASA for every 2 Skywest.....and that would be generous.

ASA has merger and successorship language in their contract that protects them from an unfair integration process. Skywest doesn't have a union or a binding contract, so they really have no protections available. If the Skywest pilots wise up and bring ALPA on the property, then ASA's merger language requires that Association merger policy apply to the integration. Current ALPA merger policy guarantees that no pilot group will receive a "windfall" and that the process be "fair and equitable." Basically, it is in the best interest of the Skywest pilots to bring in ALPA.

 

[capt. megadeth]

PCL,

Uh, ok....that's great and wonderful but when you are being bought by a company that is non-union, what your contract says isn't gonna mean diddly. Secondly, I would hardly call DOH "fair and equitable". It would screw the Skywest pilots and their company is the one doing the buying.

 

[sweptback]

Uh, ok....that's great and wonderful but when you are being bought by a company that is non-union, what your contract says isn't gonna mean diddly. Secondly, I would hardly call DOH "fair and equitable". It would screw the Skywest pilots and their company is the one doing the buying.

You're totally wrong.

The ASA pilots have a valid, certified union, and also have a CBA with valid protections. In no way does that go out the window just because their company was bought.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Uh, ok...the same "valid, certified union" that does squat for regionals? The same "valid, certified union" that blocked all those paycuts at the majors they represent? You just keep telling yourself that you are "protected".......

All Skywest management has to do is shut ASA down, then what? They friggin own them. ATA owned Chicago Express.....one day they said "ok, you are shutting down" That would be the end of that.

You're totally wrong.

The ASA pilots have a valid, certified union, and also have a CBA with valid protections. In no way does that go out the window just because their company was bought.