Skywest Alpa Drive

[theo]

I agree with you there. But also, ask which group of pilots would have been better off with no union....

Well, Skywest pilots have been better off without a union. No dues to pay, plenty of growth and the associated opportunities, ie; upgrades, better lines, increase in compensation. I would suggest that most pilots in the industry would agree, I believe that is why so many pilots, even on Flight Info, refer to Skywest as one of the higher quality Regionals to work for. I doubt you will find a majority of the pilots at Skywest anxious to adopt ALPA.

 

[mavdog]

Of course management likes the current system.
SAPA- "can we get a raise?"
MGMNT - "NO"
SAPA/ "ok"

I'm just wondering how you think its going to go with ALPA on property...

ALPA - "Can we get a raise?"
MGMNT - "NO"
ALPA - "#$%$#&*"

Hmmm... maybe that's how the culture at SkyWest will be destroyed. I agree that if ALPA is willing to work with management and vice versa, there won't be much of a change, but ALPA doesn't have a very good track record and they still end up getting hosed in the end.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Well, Skywest pilots have been better off without a union. No dues to pay, plenty of growth and the associated opportunities, ie; upgrades, better lines, increase in compensation. I would suggest that most pilots in the industry would agree, I believe that is why so many pilots, even on Flight Info, refer to Skywest as one of the higher quality Regionals to work for. I doubt you will find a majority of the pilots at Skywest anxious to adopt ALPA.

Yes, the term is "coat tail riding" and that never lasts forever.

 

[theo]

Yes, the term is "coat tail riding" and that never lasts forever.

Wrong, the term is "Free Market" and we have a whole country based upon it. Seems to be pretty successful so far.

 

[MYFpilot]

After hearing rumors of handwriting analysis

I don't think that was just a rumor...

This is true, in-fact... Looks like they may bring back the "handwriting Annalist"... Graffiti is appearing in the cockpits of Brasilias out west. (the statements are rather unprofessional, IMHO) We (Brasilia Pilots) were warned that the perpetrator, if/when found will be fired. Just a word of caution, I'd probably cut out magazine letters and glue them together next time.

For more information about the previous handwriting analysis incident please visit...

Don Douglas V. SkyWest


P.S. He was NOT in favor of bringing a union on property. His feelings have since changed considerably!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Wrong, the term is "Free Market" and we have a whole country based upon it. Seems to be pretty successful so far.

Yes, until your company decides to replace you with cheaper workers and you have no protection.

Go ask the 3500 Circuit City employees who just got told they're losing their jobs and being replaced with cheaper labor. It was on the news this morning. It could happen at Skywest tomorrow.

"Free Market Economy" only benefits the corporations and managers. It does nothing for the workers or the average citizen, aka the "middle class". The middle class has been suffering and sliding downhill since World War II. If you call that successful, than there's not much else I can say.

 

[HelloNewman]

Wrong, the term is "Free Market" and we have a whole country based upon it. Seems to be pretty successful so far.

Yep sure does, I see no reason to be ashamed of "coat tail riding" anyway. You gotta do what you gotta do. Having a union would be a huge burden for our wallet (2% dues) and our morale (look how happy the unionized regionals are). You also have to look at the fact that we are above most regionals on the 50 seat pay. We are average on the 70 seat pay and we have no aircraft with 90 seats in them. I would say "coat tail riding" has worked great for us and should continue to work great for the next 35+ years.

At SkyWest we are not be ashamed at all to be called freeloaders or coat tail riders. Why pay union dues when we can let the dues of other airlines work for us? I would have to say we are comfortable waiting to see what others can accomplish first then match our pay with theirs. Playing the follower is much safer than playing the leader. The one good thing is on the off chance that we do get a union the NMB does not seem to release pilots for a strike. This is a good thing for job security, QOL and compensation. The only problem is as long as you threaten a strike the company will punish you for it. You will lose job security and QOL. Those are two of the very goals the union hold so dear yet a strike has the potential to make those worse.

 

[theo]

Yes, until your company decides to replace you with cheaper workers and you have no protection.

Go ask the 3500 Circuit City employees who just got told they're losing their jobs and being replaced with cheaper labor. It was on the news this morning. It could happen at Skywest tomorrow.

"Free Market Economy" only benefits the corporations and managers. It does nothing for the workers or the average citizen, aka the "middle class". The middle class has been suffering and sliding downhill since World War II. If you call that successful, than there's not much else I can say.

Free Market Economy is based upon supply and demand. When your wages become uncompetitive then eventually something will be done to correct that situation. Just look at all of the legacy carriers as an example of what happens when you outpace the marketplace. Unions try to circumvent that process by creating a closed market where they control the supply. Which is a great idea if it worked. Unfortunatly they have become less and less successful in their attempts and as a result have failed to deliver on their promises time and time again.

Skywest has been around for quite a few years now without a union. Generally the people are and have been happy. We all realize that no view is shared by 100% of the people 100% of the time, but generally a union at Skywest is going to be a hard sell.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Free Market Economy is based upon supply and demand. When your wages become uncompetitive then eventually something will be done to correct that situation. Just look at all of the legacy carriers as an example of what happens when you outpace the marketplace. Unions try to circumvent that process by creating a closed market where they control the supply. Which is a great idea if it worked. Unfortunatly they have become less and less successful in their attempts and as a result have failed to deliver on their promises time and time again.

Then how do you explain socialist economies like those in Europe and Canada where the unions are very strong? Their economies are prospering, their businesses are prospering, the middle class is prospering. In many countries, the people enjoy a much better quality of life than we do.

It's been proven time and time again that free market only benefits the wealthy corporate robber-barons.

Skywest has been around for quite a few years now without a union. Generally the people are and have been happy. We all realize that no view is shared by 100% of the people 100% of the time, but generally a union at Skywest is going to be a hard sell.

I disagree. Skywest aint the mom & pop operation it used to be. At one time, I agree a union was unecessary, but as the company grows, it becomes more important. Skywest may have finally reached that critical mass.

 

[ohplease!]

Then how do you explain socialist economies like those in Europe and Canada where the unions are very strong? Their economies are prospering, their businesses are prospering, the middle class is prospering. In many countries, the people enjoy a much better quality of life than we do.

It's been proven time and time again that free market only benefits the wealthy corporate robber-barons.

.

D@mn! You went and blew it. I was actually giving you more credit than you obviously deserve for being intelligent in another thread. If you truly believe that ANY COUNTRY in Europe or Canada have a better QOL or a middle class growing at a quicker rate than here, you obviously don't deserve the credit I was giving you.

D@mn man! Just D@mn.

 

[John Pennekamp]

D@mn! You went and blew it. I was actually giving you more credit than you obviously deserve for being intelligent in another thread. If you truly believe that ANY COUNTRY in Europe or Canada have a better QOL or a middle class growing at a quicker rate than here, you obviously don't deserve the credit I was giving you.

D@mn man! Just D@mn.

I knew you'd love that one.

And where did you give me credit? I mised it.

 

[ohplease!]

I knew you'd love that one.

And where did you give me credit? I mised it.

nope. You answered it.

 

[Ben Dover]

If you truly believe that ANY COUNTRY in Europe or Canada have a better QOL or a middle class growing at a quicker rate than here, you obviously don't deserve the credit I was giving you.

D@mn man! Just D@mn.

Why don't you educate yourself before you post crap like this. The fact is, few economists disagree that middle-class families have LOST purchasing power (real dollars adjusted for inflation) over the last twenty years. AND, the composition of the middle-class family is increasingly composed of two wage earners rather than one.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Why don't you educate yourself before you post crap like this. The fact is, few economists disagree that middle-class families have LOST purchasing power (real dollars adjusted for inflation) over the last twenty years. AND, the composition of the middle-class family is increasingly composed of two wage earners rather than one.

Of course. That's easily proven. But you're wasting your time ond logic on him.

I avoided the argument because you can't reason with people like ohplease! who refuse to see both sides of the debate.

 

[JoeMerchant]

With Mesa/Freedom, a vote wasn't necessary because the NMB handed down a ruling right after the contract was signed that Mesa and Freedom constitued a "single transportation system" In other words, ALPA was succesful in our single-carrier petition in this case. In the eyes of the NMB, there weren't two carriers to merge, so no new vote was needed.

PCL,
I read the single carrier petition, and it seems like it was dismissed because of the LOA that MESA ALPA negotiated. Read thru it and let me know what you think. It sounds like it was negotiated before the NMB could rule on it.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

I have talked to many different SkyWest pilots, and they all say the same thing -- that ASA pilots are getting hosed. Most I talked to know that SkyWest could just as easily be the airline getting hosed in the blink of an eye. They know what is going on, and hopefully they will step up and do something about it. Otherwise there is a fine line between being outraged and looking the other way if it benefits you.

Of course they told you that. Pilots don't want to hurt each other, and the Skywest pilots are going to be sympathetic to our situation. Don't confuse that with support for ALPA however. ALPA has not been able to eliminate the whipsaw, and the Skywest pilots know that. They have a good thing going, and they don't want to upset the apple cart... I don't blame them. Maybe ALPA should work on the whipsaw issue.... might get Skywest to sign on then....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Continental? FedEx?

They voted in ALPA, but were already union. I can't think of a similar situation where a non-union carrier the size of SKYW, that was near the top of the industry, voted in ALPA, much less any union. The deck is stacked against ALPA in this situation..... time to face up to it...

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Quote:ask yourself this: which regional do you look at that is represented by ALPA and say to yourself 'man, I wish we were in their position'?

Continental Express ain't lookin so bad.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Now John, you know better than to let facts get in the way of CFIT's argument.

I think CFIT has his facts in order. Can you site an example of a carrier the size of SKYW, that was near the top already in compensation, going from non-union to ALPA or any union?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yes, the term is "coat tail riding" and that never lasts forever.

May not last forever, but might as well ride it as long as you can. ALPA hasn't been able to stop the whipsaw/race for the bottom, and voting in ALPA will end the "coat tail riding"..... why risk it? If I were at Skywest, I would keep riding that coat tail.......