Skywest 90 CRJ seat pay vs. 50 seat CRJ

[avrodriver]

-all that said-

If SGU offered up Skywest's current working agreement to ASA ALPA (plus ASA's current 70 seat rates, better first year pay and scope protections), I would bet it would overwhelmingly pass.

That's not saying much...the contract they are working under now is 4+ years overdue. Whatever they get, count on it to be less than Skywest. The message must be sent. Not that it needs to be...I'd don't think there is many of us that wouldn't agree ALPA sucks. But if all of us worked for whatever management wanted to pay us we'd all be working for sub-mesa rates.

 

[SkyNation]

No offense but all of your above ideas are ridiculous.

It is ridiculous, but it has gone on elsewhere in a fashion something like that.

Do you really think management has given you everything you have today because they think you deserve it?

I think they give us what they do to remain competitive and continue to attract good people to work here. And BTW, are you saying we DON'T deserve it? Why not? Do ALPA represented pilots DESERVE everything they get? Why or why not? This is a line of thinking I don't understand. Are you saying that any progress we make that isn't under the banner of a union is worthless?

No...they had to keep up with with everyone else.

Right. Competition, if I remember correctly.

Fortunately for them, and possibly unfortunately for you ALPA has been dropping the ball at every turn. First it was just with the regionals...now with the majors.

Sounds good! Now, where did I put that ALPA card?

Maybe I'm wrong and your right. Maybe you'll be able to "talk" your way into continuing to be paid the leading/fair rates that you should be paid as time goes on. If that doesn't work out I'd say Southwest is doing a pretty fricken good job with their "in house" union.

I'd support a well structured in-house union, a la SWA, so we agree on that.

 

[FightingIrish]

The MESA ALPA contract is far more harmful to the industry than the Skywest 70 seat pay.

 

[legalalien]

I heard they were offered that PLUS a better rate on the 70, but it was shot down because it included PBS. is that true?

Not true. We have never been offered Skywest 50 rates, rigs profit sharing etc. We have been offered our current rates plus small increases. They also wanted to have a side letter to negotiate for PBS (they couldn't really change our scheduling section since it has been TA'd and that would have pissed off the mediator).

 

[FlyinPiker]

Do you really think management has given you everything you have today because they think you deserve it?

I think they give us what they do to remain competitive and continue to attract good people to work here. And BTW, are you saying we DON'T deserve it? Why not? Do ALPA represented pilots DESERVE everything they get? Why or why not? This is a line of thinking I don't understand. Are you saying that any progress we make that isn't under the banner of a union is worthless?

No...they had to keep up with with everyone else.

Right. Competition, if I remember correctly.

Dude...grow up and read my post. Did I say you didn't deserve anything? Wow and then you follow it with a bunch of "anti-alpa pilot" banter. No one has said anything of the sort. Anyone that raises the bar is everyones hero regardless of what they use to do it with. Do I sound like a ALPA cheerleader telling you that if you went union, you'd be better off going in house?

Yes "competition"...look around, no one is in the position to give you the "competition" you need to give your company a reason to keep you on top . Good luck with your "talks".

Do I think ALPA works? No
Do I like paying union dues? No
Do I think mgmt gives raises/pay rates away if they don't have to? No

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Yawn, this again?

 

[jehtplane]

What are you doing to get it changed???

They are going to ride on the shirt tails of a union carrier called ASA that has seperate rates.

 

[jehtplane]

Alaska is flying all the 737's (400, 700, 800, & 900) for the same rate as well - Any comments there? They agreed to a 15% raise across the board for the fleet and it's makes for easier sked.

And Skynation hit the nail on the head - I don't see hardly any Skywester's posting how crappy their company is but there are daily negative threads by ALL the other regionals - What's that tell ya?

Baja.

That tells us you do not have a hub in ATL

 

[FightingIrish]

They are going to ride on the shirt tails of a union carrier called ASA that has seperate rates.

As a YES strike voter at ASA, I believe I would do the same if I was in their shoes. ALPA hasn't exactly proved their value to the regional pilot. Again, the union contract at MESA is doing more harm than the Skywest pilots riding on shirt tails. What good are separate 70 rates if they are lower than Skywest's 50 rate?

 

[Question4U]

..............

 

[COOPERVANE]

I would sign a Skywest equivalent contract. Problem is, management is offering a $1.09 raise after stalling for 4 years and is NOT offering anything NEAR Skywest rates.

And Skywest pilots on this board seem to think we are being greedy and unreasonable.

 

[jeroom]

Is that true that Skywest is opening a base for the 900 in ATL in Dec.?

 

[bobbyice]

Is that true that Skywest is opening a base for the 900 in ATL in Dec.?

Yes it is.

 

[FightingIrish]

I would sign a Skywest equivalent contract. Problem is, management is offering a $1.09 raise after stalling for 4 years and is NOT offering anything NEAR Skywest rates.

And Skywest pilots on this board seem to think we are being greedy and unreasonable.

They are offering 70 seat rates that are higher than Skywests. I agree with you that the 50 seat rates being offered are too low.

 

[txpilot1974]

Yes it is.

No its not.

 

[Dubya]

Whats the matter Dream? Life at Colgan got you down? Should have studied harder for that interview in SLC eh?

W

The only reason I made this post was I didnt realize that Skywest was flying a 900 series 90 seat CRJ for 50 seat pay. I knew that they always flew the 70 seaters for same pay as 50 seat but than someone made a comment to me that they also fly the 90 seat for the same pay I was in disbelief!!! Can a Skywest pilot explain why they are doing this and agreeing to this??? 90 seat for 50 seat pay? when do you guys draw the line?? I agree that skywest is a much better place than mesa but quietly Skywest is lowering the bar quite a bit flying a 900 series for 200 series rates and doing so at there own will, Skywest is not in Chapter 11 the pilots have a leg to stand on talking to management, there is no threat of 1113 ruling on them but they still lower the bar Why??

 

[SkyNation]

Yes it is.

source? a domicile, or SLC based 900s flowing out through ATL? that I've heard.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I really don't know what game they are playing. Lets look at 2 scenerios:

1) ASA offers Skywest rates and defined bonus structure, it would pass.

2) We strike snd ASA goes away. Skywest pilots fly our planes with much regret. JA just spent all that money for gates in ATL. Not much else



So why not option 1? Is it because the plan is to try and get lower rates AND THEN go back to Skywest pilots for a paycut?

Option 2? Maybe, but isn't that an expensive way to bust a union and aquire gates?

I REALLY think there is a plan. JA wouldn't buy us without one. Just don't know what it is.

 

[www.]

contract / agreement - It is what they work under and it is better than ours.

And can be changed at any time.

If your that unhappy at ASA, well pack it in and leave. I can tell your "fun meter" has been maxed out.

 

[www.]

I heard they were offered that PLUS a better rate on the 70, but it was shot down because it included PBS. is that true?

You have heard wrong. Several more strings attached.

 

[General Lee]

I was told that the pay at Skywest for the 90 seat CRJ is the same as 50 seat CRJ pay, basically one pay scale for any jet under 90 seats??? Is that correct and that crews can fly a 50 seat 70 seat and 90 seat all in one day??

It must have been imposed on them like the Mesaba guy...And, their BK court judge was OBVIOUSLY leaning on them heavily, right? Right? Wait, no BK judge? No FORCED pay cuts? This was for expansion purposes only? Screw everyone else? They did it for quicker upgrades? They probably would have lost the United contract otherwise.......riiiiiight......Oh, oooooookay.


Bye Bye--General Lee

PS--Waiting for Vogue5 to chime in..........

 

[COOPERVANE]

If your that unhappy at ASA, well pack it in and leave. I can tell your "fun meter" has been maxed out.

That has been a problem lately. Lots ARE leaving

 

[Cardinal]

4th year 50 seat CMR CA = $69
4th year 50 seat XJT CA = $64.
4th year 50/70/90 Seat SKYW CA = $61

Currently at SkyWest:
CR9 = 3% of the fleet.
CR7 = 32% of the fleet.
CR2 = 65% of the fleet.

Using these ratios and the 4th year captain example, assume a Comair $7/hr premium for the -700, and a Mesa $5/hr additional premium for the -900. I cranked up Excel to compute a straight blended pay rate for those aircraft = $64. Using Comair's contract we get a blend of $72/hr. Projecting future deliveries up to May 2007 results in $73/hr..

And if one thinks that the current SkyWest payscale isn't a direct product of pattern bargaining by ALPA and others they're nuts. It's like the one kid at school whose parents won't take him to get vaccinated. After all, all the other kids are vaccinated, so he'll be safe, right?

JA pays the pilot group not one penny more than what he thinks will prevent you from organizing. He'd like to see 49% vote for ALPA: 48% means he's been paying you to much, 51% and he didn't pay enough, and he gets to deal with an MEC instead of SAPA.

 

[www.]

That has been a problem lately. Lots ARE leaving

And that is their choice. I feel if your not happy, move on. The grass MAY be greener on the other side.

 

[SuperKooter]

What are you doing to get it changed???

Why would they want to change it. THose rates get them massive growth and quicker upgrades.

 

[FightingIrish]

4th year 50 seat CMR CA = $69
4th year 50 seat XJT CA = $64.
4th year 50/70/90 Seat SKYW CA = $61

Payrates aren't everything however. Skywest is growing while CMR and XJT are shrinking. What difference is a few bucks an hour for captains if you can't upgrade? How do the FO rates compare - my guess is they are about the same.

 

[jehtplane]

Payrates aren't everything however. Skywest is growing while CMR and XJT are shrinking. What difference is a few bucks an hour for captains if you can't upgrade? How do the FO rates compare - my guess is they are about the same.

And you are making everyone's point, if you are willing to fly larger airplanes for less than standard pay than yes you are going to get the growth, aren't you supposed to be raising the bar instead of lowering it?

 

[FightingIrish]

And you are making everyone's point, if you are willing to fly larger airplanes for less than standard pay than yes you are going to get the growth, aren't you supposed to be raising the bar instead of lowering it?

I don't know. I hear alot about this mythical "bar" being raised, but I don't see much evidence of it. I also see bad things happening to those who try to raise it. Is this about raising the bar, or is about falling on my sword? I want a raise, but I don't want to price myself out of a job either. If raising the bar means becoming the next ACA or Comair or Mesaba or ExpressJet, then no I'm not interested in raising the bar so someone else can undercut me for my job.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

I can tell your "fun meter" has been maxed out.

On the contrary, I've still got 28 years of fun left in me:beer: . I may be wrong on this and skynation or bluto can correct me if so, but the SKW agreement cannot be arbitrarily changed w/o negotiations and approval from the collective group/council. This would be much like our contract except call it an amendment to our contract.

Fly Safe...

 

[Arrow11]

4th year 50 seat CMR CA = $69
4th year 50 seat XJT CA = $64.
4th year 50/70/90 Seat SKYW CA = $61

Currently at SkyWest:
CR9 = 3% of the fleet.
CR7 = 32% of the fleet.
CR2 = 65% of the fleet.

Using these ratios and the 4th year captain example, assume a Comair $7/hr premium for the -700, and a Mesa $5/hr additional premium for the -900. I cranked up Excel to compute a straight blended pay rate for those aircraft = $64. Using Comair's contract we get a blend of $72/hr. Projecting future deliveries up to May 2007 results in $73/hr..

And if one thinks that the current SkyWest payscale isn't a direct product of pattern bargaining by ALPA and others they're nuts. It's like the one kid at school whose parents won't take him to get vaccinated. After all, all the other kids are vaccinated, so he'll be safe, right?

JA pays the pilot group not one penny more than what he thinks will prevent you from organizing. He'd like to see 49% vote for ALPA: 48% means he's been paying you to much, 51% and he didn't pay enough, and he gets to deal with an MEC instead of SAPA.

You're point might be made better if you hadn't used two companies that are in severe jeopardy right now, they might have better rates, but it's all moot if there not here next year or shrink/furlough.