Skyway / ACA's old 328Jets
- Thread starter fastbird
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O
Otto Coarsen
Mesa holds the leases I believe on the 328 jets now.
I think Pornstien assumed the leases as part of the deal to begin operating as Delta connection.
I'm assuming he's trying to find somewhere to offload them, as he has no plans on operating them.
I think Pornstien assumed the leases as part of the deal to begin operating as Delta connection.
I'm assuming he's trying to find somewhere to offload them, as he has no plans on operating them.
Delta has already filed to reject them.
http://www.deltadocket.com/downloads/CourtFiledDocuments/FDM000025_03_reject_aircraft_leases_stroock2.pdf
http://www.deltadocket.com/downloads/CourtFiledDocuments/FDM000025_03_reject_aircraft_leases_stroock2.pdf
fastbird said:
Broke in CVG
Broke AGAIN in CVG!
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And Mesa too!!!!!!!!!!!!
Propsync
Everybody to the limit!
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Mesa never had the leases. They offered to pay for them so they could get that EMB Freedom flying out of MCO. Kinda like AirWisc. and U, but to a lesser extent. Now that Delta has filed, those aircraft are now back to the leaseholders/owners. Since nobody else wants these airplanes, they have become worthless as far as value is concerned. Worthless is about the price Midwest is willing to pay for them. I wouldn't be suprised if we got a few, they do want to replace the Beech eventually, this could be a great time to start.
ClubORD
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Propsync,
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that ACA/IDE were free and clear from all FRJ leases per the MESA/Delta Connection agreement. On a previous multi-million dollar quarterly loss statement filed to the SEC by IDE, I distinctly remember seeing the final remaining D-328 being made.
Could be wrong though. Who knows.
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that ACA/IDE were free and clear from all FRJ leases per the MESA/Delta Connection agreement. On a previous multi-million dollar quarterly loss statement filed to the SEC by IDE, I distinctly remember seeing the final remaining D-328 being made.
Could be wrong though. Who knows.
Propsync
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Club- You're kinda right. IDE did become free and clear, and then the A/C transferred to Delta. The MESA deal is this:
1. Move ERJ flying from USAir to Delta.
2. Pay Delta the FULL leases for the 30 parked DOJets, but not ASSUME the leases. This was the sweet part of the deal for Delta. Mesa did this because they didn't want to be at the dance and get stuck with all of the fat chicks. Meaning they didn't want to eat 30 or so ERJ's with no flying. They figured they would pay the leases until Delta filed. And since they actually haven't even started flying for Delta, I wonder if they've even paid a dime. Mesa never wanted these airplanes because they were worried they would have to park the ERJ's. They were willing to pay the leases to secure the ERJ flying. Kind of a dorked up deal.
In the meantime, I'm sure we were trying to get some of those airplanes. But since to full price of the lease was being paid by someone (around 70k/month per plane) they weren't interested in what we were willing to pay. Now nobody will be paying anything, my guess is they should have listened.
1. Move ERJ flying from USAir to Delta.
2. Pay Delta the FULL leases for the 30 parked DOJets, but not ASSUME the leases. This was the sweet part of the deal for Delta. Mesa did this because they didn't want to be at the dance and get stuck with all of the fat chicks. Meaning they didn't want to eat 30 or so ERJ's with no flying. They figured they would pay the leases until Delta filed. And since they actually haven't even started flying for Delta, I wonder if they've even paid a dime. Mesa never wanted these airplanes because they were worried they would have to park the ERJ's. They were willing to pay the leases to secure the ERJ flying. Kind of a dorked up deal.
In the meantime, I'm sure we were trying to get some of those airplanes. But since to full price of the lease was being paid by someone (around 70k/month per plane) they weren't interested in what we were willing to pay. Now nobody will be paying anything, my guess is they should have listened.
ShadowFlight
Momentary lapse of reason
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Propsync is correct about the Delta/Mesa deal regarding the 30 DoJets. Prior to Delta's BK, Mesa was paying Delta for the leases (approx 66k/month/plane=$1.98M/month) and, in turn, Delta was sending that money to Wachovia Bank (lessors).
Now that Delta has petitioned the Court to void the leases and return the planes, Wachovia will be on the losing end. The only chance Wachovia has on making a smaller return on their investment would be to offer the planes to either Skyway or Hainan Airlines in China. Skyway is only paying approximately $28k/month/plane for 356SK-360SK (we already own 351SK-355SK) and I doubt the company would pay above current rate for any additional planes. I have no clue Hainan's interest in those planes parked in MYR.
As for Skyway obtaining additional planes, I suspect it's an idea that's being discussed by the management team. Whether or not we (or Midwest for that matter) decide to enter an agreement with Wachovia remains an unknown at this time. Skyway has made it clear we want more 328's, mainly to replace the Beech and potentially expand MCI.
It'll be an interesting ride over the next six months for all involved.
Peace
SF
Now that Delta has petitioned the Court to void the leases and return the planes, Wachovia will be on the losing end. The only chance Wachovia has on making a smaller return on their investment would be to offer the planes to either Skyway or Hainan Airlines in China. Skyway is only paying approximately $28k/month/plane for 356SK-360SK (we already own 351SK-355SK) and I doubt the company would pay above current rate for any additional planes. I have no clue Hainan's interest in those planes parked in MYR.
As for Skyway obtaining additional planes, I suspect it's an idea that's being discussed by the management team. Whether or not we (or Midwest for that matter) decide to enter an agreement with Wachovia remains an unknown at this time. Skyway has made it clear we want more 328's, mainly to replace the Beech and potentially expand MCI.
It'll be an interesting ride over the next six months for all involved.
Peace
SF
GOULET!
Oh look..a bighorn!
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It has been a very interesting time over the past few weeks or so at Skyway. Delta's BK can only be a good thing for Skyway as the chances that more 328s show up increases. It is also interesting to see how the Beech's routes have been shrinking. Lansing was no surprise as the loads were low however La Crosse is a shock to most people. The pilots Ive talked to as well as myself had great loads to LSE all the time. I find it very hard to believe that they were not making money on this route. Looks to me like they are very, very slowly phasing the Beech out of Skyway. This is no secret. I have faith that management is doing their best to get us some jets.
Keep your fingers crossed!!!
I wonder what Greenpickle thinks on this topic?
Keep your fingers crossed!!!
I wonder what Greenpickle thinks on this topic?
jobear
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SF,Tuna,PS,GP,Goulet and the gang in MKE, I pray that TH and his buddies open up the pursestrings and get the pilots more planes. You long suffering few deserve it.
I appaluad all who stayed, and pray for the my friends the rest can suck it though
Jobear
"she's a young 65 though!"
I appaluad all who stayed, and pray for the my friends the rest can suck it though
Jobear
"she's a young 65 though!"
greenpickle
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Wow
1) I am going to miss the customer service we got from LAN. I will miss the blank stares of confusion when I try to explain that we really need a GPU and I that I can not accept "I dont know what the other guys did with it" as a valid excuse for why we can't hve ground power.
2) I personally believe that Prop sync and shadowflight are, as usual, correct in their accounts and predictions.
3) I am a little worried about getting JA'd into the jet. Hopefully we can keep one or two 1900's so that I can stay.
4) I am completely confused on why we pulled out of LSE. The loads were good. Maybe our ticket prices out of there (to compete with you know who) didnt allow us to make any money. Maybe they are going to increase freq somewhere ticket prices are higher. This speculation is worth nothing. I am just blowing this out of my purge tank. My other conspiracy theory is that the engine light in the red hotel car finally meant business and died and therefore we had no way to overnight crews anymore so we had to pull out. My personal favorite is that management pulled us out of there before one of our pilots went postal on the TSA lady for the full body cavity searches we got every time we went to the aircraft even though we just picked the plane up from the hanger.
Whatever the case may be my head is already aching from the onslaught of rumors that the Delta BK will inevitably bring. I long for the days when the word "Delta" came up in conversation with my buddies it was in regards to some soriety girl that was wasted off her @ss and dancing on the pool table like she was in a girls gone wild video.
God I feel old.
What was the question?
GP
Well, since you asked....GOULET! said:
1) I am going to miss the customer service we got from LAN. I will miss the blank stares of confusion when I try to explain that we really need a GPU and I that I can not accept "I dont know what the other guys did with it" as a valid excuse for why we can't hve ground power.
2) I personally believe that Prop sync and shadowflight are, as usual, correct in their accounts and predictions.
3) I am a little worried about getting JA'd into the jet. Hopefully we can keep one or two 1900's so that I can stay.
4) I am completely confused on why we pulled out of LSE. The loads were good. Maybe our ticket prices out of there (to compete with you know who) didnt allow us to make any money. Maybe they are going to increase freq somewhere ticket prices are higher. This speculation is worth nothing. I am just blowing this out of my purge tank. My other conspiracy theory is that the engine light in the red hotel car finally meant business and died and therefore we had no way to overnight crews anymore so we had to pull out. My personal favorite is that management pulled us out of there before one of our pilots went postal on the TSA lady for the full body cavity searches we got every time we went to the aircraft even though we just picked the plane up from the hanger.
Whatever the case may be my head is already aching from the onslaught of rumors that the Delta BK will inevitably bring. I long for the days when the word "Delta" came up in conversation with my buddies it was in regards to some soriety girl that was wasted off her @ss and dancing on the pool table like she was in a girls gone wild video.
God I feel old.
What was the question?
GP
Last edited:
248to2.8
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LSE pullout
I think the majority of our loads were soilders from the base. I'm also pretty sure that they were not paying a full ticket price either. Hence their bags were always bumped when we were overweight, which was almost every Friday. Sad to see the place go. I loved getting lost on the way back to the hotel from the booby bar. Especially on that stand up we used to do, that sucked. Good times, Going to miss Brenda especially.
I think the majority of our loads were soilders from the base. I'm also pretty sure that they were not paying a full ticket price either. Hence their bags were always bumped when we were overweight, which was almost every Friday. Sad to see the place go. I loved getting lost on the way back to the hotel from the booby bar. Especially on that stand up we used to do, that sucked. Good times, Going to miss Brenda especially.
greenpickle
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New theory
1. Shuttling back and forth from the airport to the hotel,
2. Whipping sh:tties in the Wal Mart parking lot.
3. "Time to Climb" races up the mountian.
4. Whatever Brenda needed to do
5. Whatever Brenda's friends needed to do
6. Hauling hay
7. Pickin up chicks
8. Snipe hunting
9. Avoiding FO
There was never any tolerance for taking it to the Booby bar. I bet they found out and kicked us out. Nice job 248.
GP
Great 248! Now I know why we are leaving. The car was to be used ONLY for:248to2.8 said:
1. Shuttling back and forth from the airport to the hotel,
2. Whipping sh:tties in the Wal Mart parking lot.
3. "Time to Climb" races up the mountian.
4. Whatever Brenda needed to do
5. Whatever Brenda's friends needed to do
6. Hauling hay
7. Pickin up chicks
8. Snipe hunting
9. Avoiding FO
There was never any tolerance for taking it to the Booby bar. I bet they found out and kicked us out. Nice job 248.
GP
248to2.8
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It was either that or the airport manager is finally following up on his threats of removing my driving privileges for squealing the tires in the parking lot and almost running through a stop sign that was hidden. If it was my fault, my apologies to all. But that titty bar in IMT sure is great. Oh wait, not supposed to go there either.greenpickle said:
248
248to2.8
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They don't. The Dork jet is awesome. It's slow, great for building PIC jet time, it only requires 1 bitch in back, it is an all around great plane. When it first came out it had a lot of mx problems just like any new plane does. The mechs here at Skyway became very good at fixing it and once all the little ideosyncrasies were figured out, it worked great, here anyways. Not so great at ACA from what I hear. Personally I really like it.