SKYW pulls out of ASA deal, thank god!

[Skaff]

.

An example is the comparisn between 50/70 seat pay and 75/76 pay. The Delta pilots get paid the higher ie. 767 regardless of aircraft, whereas the SKYW pilots get paid the lower ie. 50 seat pay regardless of aircraft. Quite frankly there is nothing wrong with flying multiple aircraft sizes for a single pay rate just as long as the pay rate is of the largest aircraft flown.

I am in no way in favor of flying larger airplanes for the same rate, but a bringing the rate of a smaller plane up to a larger plane is bad buisness practice. It's not profitable. Maybe this is one reason why Delta is toying with bankruptcy. Each plane deserves its own pay rate.

 

[Plug]

Plug,
I was drawing a comparison between the common fleet type arraingments.
As far as your statment "Quite frankly there is nothing wrong with flying multiple aircraft sizes for a single pay rate just as long as the pay rate is of the largest aircraft flown" I have only to ask, UPS, don't they have a negotiated rate for all airframes?. I ask you to illustrate which facts are wrong and help me to correct them. What parts of my arguments are not well founded, I am truly interested in finding out where my communications are lacking. enlighten me with facts please!
PBR

PBR,

You're quoted as saying Mesa flies 90 seaters for UAL, wrong.

The COS hanger was, yes, built for bigger airplanes. Ever think that is was done on purpose to get the blood flowing to the pelvic area? You may very well get bigger airplanes, and yes they can fit in that hanger, and yes under multiple codes, but so can a smaller airplane.

You bring up UPS, they were just released to self help. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my last post. With multiple aircraft on one type (ATR 42/72, CRJ200/700/900, B757/767, etc.) I am all for one pay rate as long as it is for the largest frame.

Fact is that you guys are paid only a few bucks more an hour than me (CR2 CA ASA) to fly both!

 

[Plug]

Who is to say that the pay isn't based off the 70 seat? Maybe Jerry had this planned from the very beginning and all the pilots think they are flying larger aircraft for "less" pay when in fact they were flying at the higher rate for years in the 200 before the 700 came along. Things that make you go hmm...

I am sure my logic is flawed but it is fun to turn it around. And by the way, who gives a rat's arse about flying the 700 at 200 rates? They are essentially the same aircraft. No change in type rating, only differences training.

The 70 seat rate at SKYW is below industry standard! This them to do the job for less, you know race to the bottom and all!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

PBR,

What you don't see is that KRAP flows DOWNHILL. Anything that happens to us, will eventually affect you. How's that pay raise of yours goin? Probably won't get one, since Jerry will say "We can't compete against the likes of Mesa...." And, you will fall for it again.

As far as Gerry looking at MY WALLET, well, I bet there will be another hit in the range of 10-15%, but the wallets he will hit harder are the non-union folks, since they have no union or contract. Does that $uck for them? Yes. Should they have found someone to negotiate for them? Yup. IF he goes after the pensions, will it cause another 600-700 pilots to leave? I bet. Will I make up my pay difference when I bid the 777 FO? Yes. Will he go after fee for departure ranges if we go into Chap 11? Yes. Will that affect you? Yes. Are you blind and can't see that comming? Sounds that way.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Gt,
"What you don't see is that KRAP flows DOWNHILL"
Are you a prophet? Master of physics? Would that be the same KRAP that UAL flushed our way?
My pay has not increased to keep pace with cost of living, but I have not recieved any hourly pay cuts as of YET. I would say my non pay raise is better than your (how much)% so far and how much more to come?

Jerry will say "We can't compete against the likes of Mesa...." And, you will fall for it again. Again your crystal ball must have cleared up,or you must be a true prophet, prediciting what someone will say in the future.

"Will I make up my pay difference when I bid the 777 FO? Yes."
Sounds like you are making the "I'll get mine" statment again.

"Will he go after fee for departure ranges if we go into Chap 11? Yes."
Again your prophacies(sp) astound me, I will use the UAL model again and bet if they do anything it will be similar to the UAL deals, sure they may cut the Fee for departure rate but they will make up for it in volume sent to the FFD carriers, which unfortunately will be the shifting of the mainline flying to the regionals.

"Will that affect you? Yes. Are you blind and can't see that comming? Sounds that way."
Will it affect me? without a doubt, if it is anything like the UAL bk, there will be a plethora of flying sent to the regionals and lots of newhires for the above said regionals.

Is that the sound of panic I detect coming from your keyboard?
You see Gt, this is not the only job I have ever had, been at the working game for a long time and if I want to see the future it's simple, look at recent history for a rough outline of how it will pan out.
Study up for that 777 transition
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

PBR,

You're quoted as saying Mesa flies 90 seaters for UAL, wrong.

The COS hanger was, yes, built for bigger airplanes. Ever think that is was done on purpose to get the blood flowing to the pelvic area? You may very well get bigger airplanes, and yes they can fit in that hanger, and yes under multiple codes, but so can a smaller airplane.

You bring up UPS, they were just released to self help. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my last post. With multiple aircraft on one type (ATR 42/72, CRJ200/700/900, B757/767, etc.) I am all for one pay rate as long as it is for the largest frame.

Fact is that you guys are paid only a few bucks more an hour than me (CR2 CA ASA) to fly both!

"You're quoted as saying Mesa flies 90 seaters for UAL, wrong."
I stand corrected, I thought they flew the multi class 90.

"The COS hanger was, yes, built for bigger airplanes. Ever think that is was done on purpose to get the blood flowing to the pelvic area? You may very well get bigger airplanes, and yes they can fit in that hanger, and yes under multiple codes, but so can a smaller airplane."
I will make an uneducated guess on this one, buildings cost per square foot to build, I do not think SKYW would spend one penny for square footage, to just give the pilots a chubby. Porn is cheaper and easier to fund. I do believe that they see the wisdom in building something that will have value to more than one type of potential customer if the facility were ever to be sold.

"You bring up UPS, they were just released to self help. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my last post. With multiple aircraft on one type (ATR 42/72, CRJ200/700/900, B757/767, etc.) I am all for one pay rate as long as it is for the largest frame."

I too would like 75/76 money for flying an ATR, will it happen? Probably not, Until the pilot workforce joins ranks and play from the same sheet I do not think so.

"Fact is that you guys are paid only a few bucks more an hour than me (CR2 CA ASA) to fly both!"
As I have said earlier, I will not bid that airframe at this payscale. Where is the problem?
PBR

 

[General Lee]

Gt,
"What you don't see is that KRAP flows DOWNHILL"
Are you a prophet? Master of physics? Would that be the same KRAP that UAL flushed our way?
My pay has not increased to keep pace with cost of living, but I have not recieved any hourly pay cuts as of YET. I would say my non pay raise is better than your (how much)% so far and how much more to come?

Jerry will say "We can't compete against the likes of Mesa...." And, you will fall for it again. Again your crystal ball must have cleared up,or you must be a true prophet, prediciting what someone will say in the future.

"Will I make up my pay difference when I bid the 777 FO? Yes."
Sounds like you are making the "I'll get mine" statment again.

"Will he go after fee for departure ranges if we go into Chap 11? Yes."
Again your prophacies(sp) astound me, I will use the UAL model again and bet if they do anything it will be similar to the UAL deals, sure they may cut the Fee for departure rate but they will make up for it in volume sent to the FFD carriers, which unfortunately will be the shifting of the mainline flying to the regionals.

"Will that affect you? Yes. Are you blind and can't see that comming? Sounds that way."
Will it affect me? without a doubt, if it is anything like the UAL bk, there will be a plethora of flying sent to the regionals and lots of newhires for the above said regionals.

Is that the sound of panic I detect coming from your keyboard?
You see Gt, this is not the only job I have ever had, been at the working game for a long time and if I want to see the future it's simple, look at recent history for a rough outline of how it will pan out.
Study up for that 777 transition
PBR

Here we go again.

My 777 FO comment was not a "I got mine statement", it was a seniority statement. If we have 500 more Captains leave, I have a good shot at it. The pay difference is something we have that you do not----flying larger equipment pays more.

You don't think a Chap 11 would affect your fee for departure rates? You don't? Hmmmm. Ok, it won't. What? Hope we don't file. It will affect you if we do. Will you get larger equipment? I don't know. We already saw what an almost all RJ hub did to DFW. What a great experiment that was. People don't like flying on RJs over long distances. Even those CR7s from ASA were shunned by business people. They didn't like 4 hour flights to OAK from DFW. Could you guys do better?. Doubtful. Will you get larger equipment than CR7s? Not likely. I think after clearing out a lot of debt and pensions, we may get larger equipment. Look at Air Canada. Too close to call there.



Panic? I am not panicing, just like Gerry isn't panicing. I know those guys are doing whatever they can to keep us out of court. They would lose control otherwise, and they don't want that. Remember my favorite quote from our CFO? " We aren't failing to plan, and we are certainly not planning to fail..." But, I do look forward to that 777 someday. Enjoy that CR7, it looks like it lands differently---with the LEDs and all.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Plug]

"You're quoted as saying Mesa flies 90 seaters for UAL, wrong."
I stand corrected, I thought they flew the multi class 90.

"The COS hanger was, yes, built for bigger airplanes. Ever think that is was done on purpose to get the blood flowing to the pelvic area? You may very well get bigger airplanes, and yes they can fit in that hanger, and yes under multiple codes, but so can a smaller airplane."
I will make an uneducated guess on this one, buildings cost per square foot to build, I do not think SKYW would spend one penny for square footage, to just give the pilots a chubby. Porn is cheaper and easier to fund. I do believe that they see the wisdom in building something that will have value to more than one type of potential customer if the facility were ever to be sold.

"You bring up UPS, they were just released to self help. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my last post. With multiple aircraft on one type (ATR 42/72, CRJ200/700/900, B757/767, etc.) I am all for one pay rate as long as it is for the largest frame."

I too would like 75/76 money for flying an ATR, will it happen? Probably not, Until the pilot workforce joins ranks and play from the same sheet I do not think so.

"Fact is that you guys are paid only a few bucks more an hour than me (CR2 CA ASA) to fly both!"
As I have said earlier, I will not bid that airframe at this payscale. Where is the problem?
PBR

If you think Jerry doesn't realize how close a vote for ALPA came on your property and that your pilot group is starting to get riled up over the pay situation, then you must think he is truely clueless.

Every airline manager is adopting Lorenzo like behavior these days and I wouldn't put it past your management team. Building a hanger in COS probably didn't cost SKYW much, instead they probably got outside help for it, maybe from the COS city council. Why did SKYW choose COS? My guess is because COS was offering the most. Kind of like an RFP! Bigger the better, makes it appear that there will be more jobs for the community, gets the rumor mills hopping with talks of bigger airplanes, plant the seed of "it'll be for all codes..." Hell it took a day up in CVG with that E170 parked on the ramp for a majority of the CMR pilots to pitch a tent. Don't think you're immune to whipsaw tactics by your own management.

As far as you comment above about getting 75/76 pay to fly an ATR. You missed the point completely! I was pointing out that there are several airplanes that have a common type and that there is no problem flying multiple airplanes like the ATR 42/72 as long as you are paid ATR 72 pay. Same goes for 75/76, and so on, do you understand it now?

 

[Torpid]

Why did SKYW choose COS? My guess is because COS was offering the most. Kind of like an RFP! Bigger the better, makes it appear that there will be more jobs for the community, gets the rumor mills hopping with talks of bigger airplanes, plant the seed of "it'll be for all codes..." Hell it took a day up in CVG with that E170 parked on the ramp for a majority of the CMR pilots to pitch a tent. Don't think you're immune to whipsaw tactics by your own management.

While I agree a little with this statement, I think the truth lies in the fact that Skywest has a large operation in DEN. SKYW didn't want to pay the outrageous fees the city wants to charge everytime a bolt is replaced. From what I understand, the cost of operating a MX facility in DEN is so high, that it's cheaper to fly to COS. Just look around DEN. You don't see a lot of MX going on around there.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Right now Skywest has something like 9 aircraft that "RON" in COS right now.
That alone seems to be a good reason for a big new hanger.
Right now MX is preformed on Delta Connection and United Express Skywest RJ's in COS, so "all codes" are getting MX performed in COS.

 

[rtmcfi]

I thought SkyWest bought the facility in COS from AWAC. Did they build a new hanger?

 

[Morning Wood]

Is it just me or is General Lee a Pompous dick?

Yeah he was sure quick to throw us under the bus when we lost our CAT II
temporarily last year. I didn't hear him demanding heads when Comair
had their Christmas Day computer meltdown or ASA couldn't fly into RNO.