SKYW pulls out of ASA deal, thank god!

[CandlerWun]

Josh M,


If you don't like what I say, go to another forum. It is as easy as that.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Sorry...I originally thought you were talking about ASA, which I found inconsistent with your normal stance. Not that what you said was "nice" even if it was in response to SkyWest. But I posted in error and for that I apologize.

Josh M.

 

[General Lee]

Sorry...I originally thought you were talking about ASA, which I found inconsistent with your normal stance. Not that what you said was "nice" even if it was in response to SkyWest. But I posted in error and for that I apologize.

Josh M.

I understand. Sometimes I do the same, although I don't want PBR to know that.... I still want to thank you guys at ASA for offering our furloughs a job. That will not be forgotten.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Tell your Jerry to wear a helmut next time he rides his motorcycle-----another spill and it will show he doesn't care about anything.

If there was ever any doubt about you being an a$$hole that statement sure cleared it up.

For those unfamiliar Jerry had a motorcycle accident several years ago. I'm not sure if he was wearing a helmet or not and I doubt GL has any real knowledge of the details.

Poking fun at an accident that caused some harm to a man responsible for creating several thousand jobs and staying well liked by his employees for 30+ years is over the top.

 

[General Lee]

If there was ever any doubt about you being an a$$hole that statement sure cleared it up.

For those unfamiliar Jerry had a motorcycle accident several years ago. I'm not sure if he was wearing a helmet or not and I doubt this prick has any real knowledge of the details.

Poking fun at an accident that caused some harm to a man responsible for creating several thousand jobs and staying well liked by his employees for 30+ years is over the top.

Hey, I am glad he is still alive. Good Ole PBR stated that our Gerry didn't care as much as your Jerry, and I find it ironic that someone with a lot to lose doesn't wear a helmet. Maybe our Gerry doesn't wear his seatbelt in his Jag. I will find out and warn him! I am not an a$$ hole, come on. I do have a grasp of the obvious, though. Buckle up!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Hey, I am glad he is still alive. Good Ole PBR stated that our Gerry didn't care as much as your Jerry, and I find it ironic that someone with a lot to lose doesn't wear a helmet. Maybe our Gerry doesn't wear his seatbelt in his Jag. I will find out and warn him! I am not an a$$ hole, come on. I do have a grasp of the obvious, though. Buckle up!


Bye Bye--General Lee

How do you know if he was or wasn't wearing a helmet?
Do you have any idea of the cause of the accident?

 

[CheckandSet]

For a 767 pilot- your are immature! Delta is in big trouble! Just wait , you will be flying your 76 for 50 seat pay- Or most likely be junior to me... a 24 year rj captain. I will let put my gear up !see ya

 

[General Lee]

For a 767 pilot- your are immature! Delta is in big trouble! Just wait , you will be flying your 76 for 50 seat pay- Or most likely be junior to me... a 24 year rj captain. I will let put my gear up !see ya

Has the rj been around for 24 years? I don't think so. Are you sure about me pulling your gear? Come on now. I am not immature, I just state the facts. Can you handle that? If United strikes you will find yourself in trouble too. Sad but true Captain. And, your paycheck is tied into our success also. Hope we do well for your sake too. If not, you can be the next Indy Air. Sounds great.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

How do you know if he was or wasn't wearing a helmet?
Do you have any idea of the cause of the accident?

I think I read an article about that. You seemed to verify it for me. I am sure, though, that he is a great leader, since you guys do whatever he wants. Follow the leader.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[strega7]

Made perfect sense to me. And it was funny.

 

[General Lee]

Did you think I was funny? I am thinking about trying out at the Comedy Barn in ATL next weekend. I think I can be the next Dave Chappelle, since I am already KWAZY.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Bluto]

I think I read an article about that. You seemed to verify it for me. I am sure, though, that he is a great leader, since you guys do whatever he wants. Follow the leader.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Hey, remember that Simpsons episode with the Cult. The leader was just called "Leader". They finally convinced Homer to join by singing (to the tune of the Batman theme song) "Nananananana Leader!" Sorry, follow the leader just reminded me of that. Good stuff guys, keep it up. p.s. My boss cares more about me than yours does!

 

[General Lee]

Hey, remember that Simpsons episode with the Cult. The leader was just called "Leader". They finally convinced Homer to join by singing (to the tune of the Batman theme song) "Nananananana Leader!" Sorry, follow the leader just reminded me of that. Good stuff guys, keep it up. p.s. My boss cares more about me than yours does!

Yeah, it is embarassing. Give me a break. My Gerry can kick your Jerry's a$$.... Hey, they all got in their positions because they are smart men who can make magic happen. They both got us to work for less money. Yahooo!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[pipers]

They need to show profits to their shareholders too. But, when the parent starts to do poorly, who do they take it out on? Their own labor, not the regional's.
Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

Are you saying that Delta never came to SKYW to ask for price breaks?

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I think I read an article about that. You seemed to verify it for me. I am sure, though, that he is a great leader, since you guys do whatever he wants. Follow the leader.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I didn't verify squat for you. Sounds to me like you're talking out your a$$. Do you know the facts surrounding the accident or not?

The questions you've ignored were

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Benjamin
How do you know if he was or wasn't wearing a helmet?
Do you have any idea of the cause of the accident?

Now either answer the questions or admit you haven't got a clue and STFU.

As far as your idiotic comment about following the leader I'd point out it's possible to admire Jerry for his accomplishments without agreeing with his ideas regarding pilot compensation. If you're going to make public statements about a rather unfortunate accident I'd encourage you to make sure you have your facts straight. I just read an article about the accident and it stated that Jerry did not suffer any head injuries. So there is a good chance he had a helmet on.

 

[General Lee]

I didn't verify squat for you. Sounds to me like you're talking out your a$$. Do you know the facts surrounding the accident or not?

The questions you've ignored were

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Benjamin
How do you know if he was or wasn't wearing a helmet?
Do you have any idea of the cause of the accident?

Now either answer the questions or admit you haven't got a clue and STFU.

As far as your idiotic comment about flollowing the leader I'd point out it's possible to admire Jerry for his accomplishments without agreeing with his ideas regarding pilot compensation. If you're going to make public statements about a rather unfortunate accident I'd encourage you to make sure you have your facts straight.

Ok Dad. Am I grounded? Relax pops. I have no clue what exactly happened. Were you guys riding together? Sheesh. I am glad you admire him, good for you. I admire Gerry Grinstein for trying to work our problems out when he probably should be on the golf course.(his own golf course) Don't get so testy over our banter. STFU? Come on man, I really don't care. Tell Jerry to becareful and you need to chill..........Take a thorizine shot, and don't get personal.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I have no clue what exactly happened.

So hopefully you don't embarass yourself with any further commments along the lines of

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee
Tell your Jerry to wear a helmut next time he rides his motorcycle-----another spill and it will show he doesn't care about anything.

 

[nimtz]

Gt,
We did not set any precedent any other pilot group that does not want to fly the 70 for 50 price can just say no, in fact I encourage them to say no.

Sounds like a precedent to me. The option became get no growth or do what Skywest did and fly the 70's for little/nothing more. That has been the option for anybody looking at 70 seaters since your "24 month" agreement was established. Unfortunately there are many of us that think 1000 PIC will get us to Southwest. Fifty seat growth has been relatively flat over the last two years as compared to the new growth ticket, the 70 seater! Management has played all of us like a fiddle and Skywest tuned the d@mn thing.

In other words the good work that ASA and Comair had done was completely scuttled in the name of quicker upgrades. Notice how afterwords CHQ settled for a mere 3 buck override for captains only. It's a shame, because it's just one more carrot management can dangle in front of us that can prove divisive.

What really saddened me was reading posts on this board from Skywest guys justfying the flat pay as only temporary and needed just to get the jets on property. Don't worry they said, the pay would get taken care of sooner rather then later. Never seizes to amaze me how gullible some idiots are. I think you feel disgusted as I do when I see 70 seaters at jetways where UAL guppies used to park at ORD. As I have often let it be known, I lost all respect for your pilot group after the precedent.

SKYW is having troubles staffing the 70 people are refusing to bid it, as I am.
PBR

I applaud your standing, but this isn't a solution to the problem created. It will take a zealously unified pilot group to undo the '70 seat precedent.' Unfortunately I had a guy on the jumpseat last week who fit in with the before mentioned majority. He kept insisting to me that Skywest simply had superior 'corporate culture' and feared having a union would destroy the goodwill with management. I thought he was messing with me, but he was dead serious. I hope voices like that are becoming the minority.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Sounds like a precedent to me. The option became get no growth or do what Skywest did and fly the 70's for little/nothing more. That has been the option for anybody looking at 70 seaters since your "24 month" agreement was established. Unfortunately there are many of us that think 1000 PIC will get us to Southwest. Fifty seat growth has been relatively flat over the last two years as compared to the new growth ticket, the 70 seater! Management has played all of us like a fiddle and Skywest tuned the d@mn thing.

In other words the good work that ASA and Comair had done was completely scuttled in the name of quicker upgrades. Notice how afterwords CHQ settled for a mere 3 buck override for captains only. It's a shame, because it's just one more carrot management can dangle in front of us that can prove divisive.

What really saddened me was reading posts on this board from Skywest guys justfying the flat pay as only temporary and needed just to get the jets on property. Don't worry they said, the pay would get taken care of sooner rather then later. Never seizes to amaze me how gullible some idiots are. I think you feel disgusted as I do when I see 70 seaters at jetways where UAL guppies used to park at ORD. As I have often let it be known, I lost all respect for your pilot group after the precedent.



I applaud your standing, but this isn't a solution to the problem created. It will take a zealously unified pilot group to undo the '70 seat precedent.' Unfortunately I had a guy on the jumpseat last week who fit in with the before mentioned majority. He kept insisting to me that Skywest simply had superior 'corporate culture' and feared having a union would destroy the goodwill with management. I thought he was messing with me, but he was dead serious. I hope voices like that are becoming the minority.

Hello,
If you look at websters definition for precedent, it states that it is only an example, not legally determined by a judge. I will not argue it was a bad example, heck I was one of the most outspoken against it! The "agreement/t/a" was for 18mos. we were sold a bill of goods for handing over those aces, and the company has not made good on the inferred promises. You are absolutely correct about those tools who think SKYW has some sort of mgmt. superority, the mgmt is very good at getting the employee groups to sway the way they want, thats just good mgmt. Those same employee groups should have the intelligence to see beyond the smoke and mirrors, unfortunately lots won't or don't want to. For the record I never wanted the 70 on the property at any price, as I have stated over and over I would rather have a mainline job at mailine wages and (old)workrules.
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

You have lost this debate because you start to get personal. I never said "I got mine", I just said I will be ok seniority wise. The pay rate on the 757/767 is true, we BROUGHT THE 757 WAGE UP, not the 767 DOWN. You can't deny that, and I can show the wages pre/post C2K if you want. You fly the 70 seater for 50 seat wages, and that set a precedent. Just like the Jetblue 100 seat rates. And 75% of your pilots voted that was ok, right? Man alive.

As far as Mesa getting 100 seaters, I don't know about that, and that won't be the case as long as we are out of Chap 11. Gerry doesn't want to lose control of the company, and he will try to stay out as long as possible. He just stated he will get another $1 billion from somewhere, and guess what? We only have one union, and one contract. He can do it. If we do go Chap 11, the pensions will go, and so will many many pilots---over 1100 are over 50 and can take their hard earned lump sums. That is the way it is.

Stick my head in the sand you say? I have almost 4800 posts. I debate everything, and I defend Delta and post articles backing up my opinions most of the time. Head in the sand? Hardly. The way you debate----POOP.


Bye Bye--General Lee

"Am I nervous? Well, since we have had 1300 Captains leave in the last year, I am closer to Captain, and I will atleast stay a widebody FO. Our Gerry said if we do go Chap 11, the pensions will be gone, which won't affect me much, but it will affect the other 1100 pilots over 50, which may leave. That would put me in a good position in the company"
Let's see the pension/early retirement of your own is ok, at least you will be in a good position. Losing the debate according to who? You? I never said anything about higher/lower payrate as they regarded the 75/76 only that they were a common fleet type. convinient omissionn on your part.
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I am glad that you backed down. I understand that Jerry wouldn't build a hanger with single use only, and I am sure that some of our DL/SkyWest CRJs are serviced there too. That is great. I don't see a DL COS hub anytime soon, and currently we have 2 738s from ATL there a day, so I don't see much DL expansion. The airport at COS has been desperate to get anyone there to do anything, ever since WestPac left and left a huge new terminal waiting there. What a waste. I am sure Jerry got a great tax break atleast.

Why is Gerry Grinstein at DL? Why? The money? Nope. He got paid only $250,000 last year (he took a 50% pay cut). Compare that with Tilton from UAL, who got a $1.3 million pay check, and a $330,000 bonus. Did Gerry? Nope. Did he get stock options? I don't think so. Did he fire or let go everyone that didn't want to be at DL now? Yes he did. He offered some some options, but they are only good if WE SUCCEED. Big carrot, but worth it to the rest of us. Gerry's wife wants him to go back to SEA, where he and she have Bill Gate's first large home. (no joke) He is a multi-multi-millionare on his own, and he is 72 years old. He doesn't have to be here, but he WANTS TO GET US THROUGH THIS. HE DOESN'T WANT A LIQUIDATION. HE WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO MAKE SURE WE GET THROUGH THIS. What does that mean? I don't know. Can he do it? I hope so, and he thinks so too. There will probably be a merger or maybe a pre-packaged Chap 11 to get us out in better shape. It is up to him, and he is up for the challenge. He was at one of our "In Command seminars" last week for new Captains, and he talked all about what was happening and what may or may not happen. (I have the class note, since I am still a ways from Captain) He is trying to keep this ship afloat, and he does care, or he wouldn't be here. Tell your Jerry to wear a helmut next time he rides his motorcycle-----another spill and it will show he doesn't care about anything.

I do know a lot about this industry and DL, because I pay attention. You need to also.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Gt,
Backed down? I'm not sure where you imagined that from, maybe your alternate reality of half truths? Remove your head from the kitty litterbox and look around, you are so busy listening to yourself you can't hear or read anything without spinning it your way. This(airline) house of cards is just waiting for the slightest whiff of a breeze to knock it over, keep kitebuilding.
PBR

 

[Plug]

For a 767 pilot- your are immature! Delta is in big trouble! Just wait , you will be flying your 76 for 50 seat pay- Or most likely be junior to me... a 24 year rj captain. I will let put my gear up !see ya

Now if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Talk about immature!

The debate between the General and PBR has been interesting though I have found some of PBR's facts are wrong and that his arguments are not well founded.

An example is the comparisn between 50/70 seat pay and 75/76 pay. The Delta pilots get paid the higher ie. 767 regardless of aircraft, whereas the SKYW pilots get paid the lower ie. 50 seat pay regardless of aircraft. Quite frankly there is nothing wrong with flying multiple aircraft sizes for a single pay rate just as long as the pay rate is of the largest aircraft flown.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Sounds like a precedent to me. The option became get no growth or do what Skywest did and fly the 70's for little/nothing more. That has been the option for anybody looking at 70 seaters since your "24 month" agreement was established.

If you look at the timeline of the infamous 18 month t/a, it becomes clear.
We were sold the bill of goods on the 50-70 t/a as you described more or less. Now we will look beyond the smoke and mirrors.
1) The survey was conducted on the company website, on the company
server, administered by company IT.
2) The survey was pulled from the website 2 hrs prior to the scheduled close
time. Aprox. 10:00 pm
3) Company newsrelease at aprox 4:00am pst announcing the UAL deal for
the additional flying.
It would appear that the flying was a done deal and SKYW was just trying to maximize their profits from the pilots. It was a done deal long before we voted.
PBR

 

[General Lee]

Gt,
Backed down? I'm not sure where you imagined that from, maybe your alternate reality of half truths? Remove your head from the kitty litterbox and look around, you are so busy listening to yourself you can't hear or read anything without spinning it your way. This(airline) house of cards is just waiting for the slightest whiff of a breeze to knock it over, keep kitebuilding.
PBR

PBR,

Your arguments are becoming weaker by the moment. Sure, the airline industry is fragile, but there are also things going on in the background that no one knows about. We pay these guys big bucks, and hopefully they know what they are doing. We also know that DL wants to reduce spending by another $ billion over the next year, and that doesn't bode well for us or you guys.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Now if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Talk about immature!

The debate between the General and PBR has been interesting though I have found some of PBR's facts are wrong and that his arguments are not well founded.

An example is the comparisn between 50/70 seat pay and 75/76 pay. The Delta pilots get paid the higher ie. 767 regardless of aircraft, whereas the SKYW pilots get paid the lower ie. 50 seat pay regardless of aircraft. Quite frankly there is nothing wrong with flying multiple aircraft sizes for a single pay rate just as long as the pay rate is of the largest aircraft flown.

Plug,
I was drawing a comparison between the common fleet type arraingments.
As far as your statment "Quite frankly there is nothing wrong with flying multiple aircraft sizes for a single pay rate just as long as the pay rate is of the largest aircraft flown" I have only to ask, UPS, don't they have a negotiated rate for all airframes?. I ask you to illustrate which facts are wrong and help me to correct them. What parts of my arguments are not well founded, I am truly interested in finding out where my communications are lacking. enlighten me with facts please!
PBR

 

[Illinois]

Sounds like a precedent to me. The option became get no growth or do what Skywest did and fly the 70's for little/nothing more. That has been the option for anybody looking at 70 seaters since your "24 month" agreement was established. Unfortunately there are many of us that think 1000 PIC will get us to Southwest. Fifty seat growth has been relatively flat over the last two years as compared to the new growth ticket, the 70 seater! Management has played all of us like a fiddle and Skywest tuned the d@mn thing.

In other words the good work that ASA and Comair had done was completely scuttled in the name of quicker upgrades. Notice how afterwords CHQ settled for a mere 3 buck override for captains only. It's a shame, because it's just one more carrot management can dangle in front of us that can prove divisive.

What really saddened me was reading posts on this board from Skywest guys justfying the flat pay as only temporary and needed just to get the jets on property. Don't worry they said, the pay would get taken care of sooner rather then later. Never seizes to amaze me how gullible some idiots are. I think you feel disgusted as I do when I see 70 seaters at jetways where UAL guppies used to park at ORD. As I have often let it be known, I lost all respect for your pilot group after the precedent.



I applaud your standing, but this isn't a solution to the problem created. It will take a zealously unified pilot group to undo the '70 seat precedent.' Unfortunately I had a guy on the jumpseat last week who fit in with the before mentioned majority. He kept insisting to me that Skywest simply had superior 'corporate culture' and feared having a union would destroy the goodwill with management. I thought he was messing with me, but he was dead serious. I hope voices like that are becoming the minority.

Nimtz-

The problem "started" with the advent of the RJ! You should start your finger pointing with the legacy pilot's who dropped the ball when the fifty seaters started rolling into the paint shops' fifteen years ago.

After that, feel free to chew my butt all you want about the 700 for 200 rates. It is a load of horse sh!t, and we deserve it!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

PBR,

Your arguments are becoming weaker by the moment. Sure, the airline industry is fragile, but there are also things going on in the background that no one knows about. We pay these guys big bucks, and hopefully they know what they are doing. We also know that DL wants to reduce spending by another $ billion over the next year, and that doesn't bode well for us or you guys.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Gt,
As you are backed into the corner your rhedoric(sp?) increases to a fevered pitch. "We"? I do not pay any of those guys anything. "hopefully" placing your future on hope, given the track record of the industry, is that wise? It seems that your delusions are just like the ones had by many of those at the company I work at, You and I are just labor hired by the hour, paid by the shareholders as a cost of doing business, just like the CEOs and other mgmt types. The difference between them and us is there is no article in the WSJ when we leave the company. CEOs looking for a billion next year? Hold on to your wallet, I guarantee your wallet has more in it than mine, and therefore would make for a much plumper prize to pick.
"but there are also things going on in the background that no one knows about." whaaat your crystal ball clouding up, chicken entrails not showing you the way anymore, don't worry there is always tea leaves, or you could resort to looking at recent history for a glimpse into the future. Gerry is looking at your wallet like a fat girl looks at Hagen Daz gallons at the supermarket.
PBR

 

[General Lee]

Gt,
As you are backed into the corner your rhedoric(sp?) increases to a fevered pitch. "We"? I do not pay any of those guys anything. "hopefully" placing your future on hope, given the track record of the industry, is that wise? It seems that your delusions are just like the ones had by many of those at the company I work at, You and I are just labor hired by the hour, paid by the shareholders as a cost of doing business, just like the CEOs and other mgmt types. The difference between them and us is there is no article in the WSJ when we leave the company. CEOs looking for a billion next year? Hold on to your wallet, I guarantee your wallet has more in it than mine, and therefore would make for a much plumper prize to pick.
"but there are also things going on in the background that no one knows about." whaaat your crystal ball clouding up, chicken entrails not showing you the way anymore, don't worry there is always tea leaves, or you could resort to looking at recent history for a glimpse into the future. Gerry is looking at your wallet like a fat girl looks at Hagen Daz gallons at the supermarket.
PBR

PBR,

What you don't see is that KRAP flows DOWNHILL. Anything that happens to us, will eventually affect you. How's that pay raise of yours goin? Probably won't get one, since Jerry will say "We can't compete against the likes of Mesa...." And, you will fall for it again.

As far as Gerry looking at MY WALLET, well, I bet there will be another hit in the range of 10-15%, but the wallets he will hit harder are the non-union folks, since they have no union or contract. Does that $uck for them? Yes. Should they have found someone to negotiate for them? Yup. IF he goes after the pensions, will it cause another 600-700 pilots to leave? I bet. Will I make up my pay difference when I bid the 777 FO? Yes. Will he go after fee for departure ranges if we go into Chap 11? Yes. Will that affect you? Yes. Are you blind and can't see that comming? Sounds that way.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[boeing76]

An example is the comparisn between 50/70 seat pay and 75/76 pay. The Delta pilots get paid the higher ie. 767 regardless of aircraft, whereas the SKYW pilots get paid the lower ie. 50 seat pay regardless of aircraft. Quite frankly there is nothing wrong with flying multiple aircraft sizes for a single pay rate just as long as the pay rate is of the largest aircraft flown.

Who is to say that the pay isn't based off the 70 seat? Maybe Jerry had this planned from the very beginning and all the pilots think they are flying larger aircraft for "less" pay when in fact they were flying at the higher rate for years in the 200 before the 700 came along. Things that make you go hmm...

I am sure my logic is flawed but it is fun to turn it around. And by the way, who gives a rat's arse about flying the 700 at 200 rates? They are essentially the same aircraft. No change in type rating, only differences training.

 

[boeing76]

General Lee
Registered User


Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,761


Aircraft Experience: EM2, 727FE, 738,757,767
Flight Experience: Civilian
Ratings: many
Current Position: Flying
Total Time: A lot

I get the feeling that you are one of those people that likes the sound of their own voice. Just a hunch.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Will he go after fee for departure ranges if we go into Chap 11? Yes. Will that affect you? Yes. Are you blind and can't see that comming? Sounds that way.

Here's the difference GL.

If Gerry goes to SKYW and demands a large reduction in fee for departure rates there is always the possibility that SKYW managment may choose to walk away and place those aircraft in service for another carrier. I don't know the details of the contract but DAL may be contractually obligated to pick up the leases which could run a few bucks.

When Gerry comes to you to reduce your pay and steal your pension where are you going to go GL? I hear CO is hiring. I guess if they don't recognize you from flightinfo they might offer you a nice EWR based FO position.

Have a nice life.