Skybus?

[Captzaahlie]

Ok, seriously? The "no jetway" thing really bothers you that much? Those dash and 1900 drivers walk around without jetways so they must have bad QOL too, huh? How about those preflights...I guess you don't have to go outside and be "exposed to the elements" when you do that?

Wait a minute mainline dudes have to do a preflight ?

They don't do it from the jetway?

I'm staying put then......

 

[Captzaahlie]

Fact check....

Stock options are worthless unless the company is publicly traded. There is no public information about Skybus going public.

There are a couple more hurdles they need to make before issuing an IPO, but the plan is that they will go public very soon. Keep in mind that everyone that gets the stock options can not exercise them until having held them for 4 years. The company tells you that you are not "vested" for 4 years. (I understand that means you can not sell them until then, someone set me straight if I'm wrong in my understanding) If the go public next year you need to wait 3 more years to reap your profits..... I did the tour, got the offer and after thinking about gambling and going I am deciding not to. Nothing against them, I just don't think I can swing the financial side of things during the interim of waiting for the left seat..... (only a 6-10 month wait mind you, maybe less. BTW- they are typing people right off the bat at this time.......subject to change. No hiring contract either.) I firmly believe they will make it because there costs are so much lower than everyone else's. Strong business model, talented management , nice equipment and the public will eat the cheap seats up. (They already are....) The next "focus city" ( read as a mini -hub) will be most likely GSO, slightest chance it could be RIC, but those in the know predict GSO. Many more "focus cities" will pop up as the rest of their 65 new confirmed orders come on line. 80 some pilots on board now, 960 pilots projected in the next 4 years to operate 80 A/C. Those low pay figures are based on a 80 hour guaranty, but guys are doing pay credits in the lower to mid 100's so Capt pay is closer to 85k. Of course this is because everyone is working hard during the growth too. They say Capt's pay will be up to 100k sometime in the future but it's only a vague promise right now.
Also pofit sharing will be part of the ame too. Flying is very efficiently scheduled, plan on doing your job and going home no long sits anywhere, except during your deadhead home. (do you really like sitting idle in a hotel collecting per Diem only?) If I could get the MRS. to work 3 more jobs and/or move to a focus city I'd consider them, but at this point in my life I don't think it'll work out.
I'm sharing this info to help with the misinformation out there and help the guy (thread poster) with his questions, if you feel the need to attack me because I was curious enough to explore some options, so be it and flame away....... I have thick skin.

 

[jetflier]

While I agree that Skybus SUCKS with a capital SUCK, they are NOT scabs.

...Good for you to stick up for a group who believes that flying an A320 for less than regional rates of pay.

Could you imaging a longshoreman allowing another company to offload ships for a third of their pay ?

That would never be allowed by the union. Furthermore, workers would never perform that kind of work for those wages, its a matter of integrity, and not taking a job for less than what it is worth>

So, either pilots have no integrity, ...or will agree to fly airplanes for less than what the job is worth....to me , they are scabbing the profession. And they will be looking to work for a better paying job at an airline and a pilot group who they hurt by flying for an airline paying subwages.

If pilot groups care about stopping the loss of flying to substandard wages, then Skybus pilots should not be hired at higher paying airlines.

We got to put a stop to this cancer.
And redefine the term "scab".

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

...Good for you to stick up for a group who believes that flying an A320 for less than regional rates of pay.

Could you imaging a longshoreman allowing another company to offload ships for a third of their pay ?

That would never be allowed by the union. Furthermore, workers would never perform that kind of work for those wages, its a matter of integrity, and not taking a job for less than what it is worth>

So, either pilots have no integrity, ...or will agree to fly airplanes for less than what the job is worth....to me , they are scabbing the profession. And they will be looking to work for a better paying job at an airline and a pilot group who they hurt by flying for an airline paying subwages.

If pilot groups care about stopping the loss of flying to substandard wages, then Skybus pilots should not be hired at higher paying airlines.

We got to put a stop to this cancer.
And redefine the term "scab".

I'm not defending anyone at all. I wish the company would go BK. However, by the definition of the word scab, they are not scabs. Period, end of story.

You must not know very many pilots. We're whores. It's all about ME ME ME ME ME ME ME, isn't it? When is the last time you saw a group of pilots, or for that matter an individual pilot make a decision to do what is best for the entire group, or the best long term solution. There are a few.....not many. Pilots, in general, are short-sighted, greedy, and selfish. Management knows it. We are our own worst enemy.

So, anyway, I agree that the pilots should be ashamed of themselves for going to work there.

So, why don't you get yourself on a hiring committee, and make sure they don't get hired if you feel that strongly, although I will almost guarantee you that the HR types do not care what SkyBus pays, and you might find yourself in a minority rejecting someone. Good luck.

And also, petition to have the definition of the word scab changed. Until then, they are "whores", not scabs.

P.S. You fly at NWA right? We could say the same about the contract you currently work under, as compared to most of the rest of the industry.

 

[belchfire]

Wow...someone who hands their retirement and a decent contract back to the company and keeps flying airplanes that non-union mechanics are suddenly maintaining getting bent at the startup payscale rates of yet another LCC...Ya know, I was furloughed and got an offer to come up and work in DTW as a "contract mechanic". I passed, thankyou very much.

Wait till those throwaway airbusses start nickel and diming them to death. They will be gone in five years, don't worry.

How will your contract be by then? How about your mechanics?

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Wow...someone who hands their retirement and a decent contract back to the company and keeps flying airplanes that non-union mechanics are suddenly maintaining getting bent at the startup payscale rates of yet another LCC........................

Nice. :beer:

 

[Captzaahlie]

...Good for you to stick up for a group who believes that flying an A320 for less than regional rates of pay.

Could you imaging a longshoreman allowing another company to offload ships for a third of their pay ?

That would never be allowed by the union. Furthermore, workers would never perform that kind of work for those wages, its a matter of integrity, and not taking a job for less than what it is worth>

So, either pilots have no integrity, ...or will agree to fly airplanes for less than what the job is worth....to me , they are scabbing the profession. And they will be looking to work for a better paying job at an airline and a pilot group who they hurt by flying for an airline paying subwages.

If pilot groups care about stopping the loss of flying to substandard wages, then Skybus pilots should not be hired at higher paying airlines.

We got to put a stop to this cancer.
And redefine the term "scab".

i'll stick up for them too....

If what you are saying is the gospel than every Mesa pilot fills the mold too.....

Face it every one will work at wages where they are comfortable, you cant change that or redifine the word scab because a migrant worker is willing to pick fruit at a lower price than some one else.

Blacklisting or what ever else you are implying is pretty close minded. Oh and before you start the rant on me I've been paying my union dues for 18 years so dont even go there......

 

[PCL_128]

However, by the definition of the word scab, they are not scabs. Period, end of story.

Actually, by the strict dictionary definition, they are:

From Merriam-Webster's Dictionary, with relevant sections in bold -

1scab Pronunciation: \ˈskab\ Function:noun Etymology:Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Swedish skabbr scab; akin to Old English sceabb scab, Latin scabere to scratch — more at shaveDate:13th century1: scabies of domestic animals2: a crust of hardened blood and serum over a wound3 a: a contemptible person b (1): a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2): a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3): a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms4: any of various bacterial or fungus diseases of plants characterized by crustaceous spots; also : one of the spots
​

Pilots are the only labor group that think the term "scab" has such a tight definition. I come from a long line of union members on both sides of my family, but they were all blue-collar workers. To them, "scab" can mean pretty much any person that undercuts union wages or work rules, works for a non-union company, doesn't join the union at a union company, etc... My grandfathers and great-grandfathers would think it absurd for a union worker to defend someone that does the same job as them for a third the pay.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I come from a long line of union members on both sides of my family, but they were all blue-collar workers. To them, "scab" can mean pretty much any person that undercuts union wages or work rules, works for a non-union company, doesn't join the union at a union company, etc...

Sounds like my grandparents' view on other religions and other Christian denominations that are not their own...super!

 

[EWRJ0225]

Actually, by the strict dictionary definition, they are:

From Merriam-Webster's Dictionary, with relevant sections in bold -​

1scab Pronunciation: \ˈskab\ Function:noun Etymology:Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Swedish skabbr scab; akin to Old English sceabb scab, Latin scabere to scratch — more at shaveDate:13th century1: scabies of domestic animals2: a crust of hardened blood and serum over a wound3 a: a contemptible person b (1): a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2): a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3): a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms4: any of various bacterial or fungus diseases of plants characterized by crustaceous spots; also : one of the spots​

Pilots are the only labor group that think the term "scab" has such a tight definition. I come from a long line of union members on both sides of my family, but they were all blue-collar workers. To them, "scab" can mean pretty much any person that undercuts union wages or work rules, works for a non-union company, doesn't join the union at a union company, etc... My grandfathers and great-grandfathers would think it absurd for a union worker to defend someone that does the same job as them for a third the pay.

so then are we all scabs in the fact that we are undercutting the pilots of the 70s and 80s who flew basically the same equipment as us for the amount we get paid in the 2000's.....hhhmmmmmmmmm? Inflation seems like a good word here?

 

[TNHillbilly]

I can second that. I also live there but thankfully am moving back to FL for NetJets.

Nothing worse than thousands of red neck, truck driving, obnoxious Buckeye fans that have nothing to do with the university in the first place but think they are entitled to be fans since they live in Columbus. Heck 90% of their fans have never even attended college, let alone graduated from high school. And it shows by the way they act: classless and pathetic.

Dude i'm sorry, that was me flipping you off from my 4wheel drive because i have no class. College?? What the f do I need college for when I can fly these shiny jets with just my G.E.D.?

I got your classless and pathetic right here pretty boy.

 

[Aerosurfer]

As a Wolverine, I wholeheartedly agree!

AHHH yes, only took you guys 3 weeks to wake up on the football field..... And no I dont work for Skybus nor live in CMH

 

[buxflyr]

I can second that. I also live there but thankfully am moving back to FL for NetJets.

Nothing worse than thousands of red neck, truck driving, obnoxious Buckeye fans that have nothing to do with the university in the first place but think they are entitled to be fans since they live in Columbus. Heck 90% of their fans have never even attended college, let alone graduated from high school. And it shows by the way they act: classless and pathetic.

Nice. If only you made sense or were anywhere close to reality would you begin to become reliable.

 

[siucavflight]

Dude i'm sorry, that was me flipping you off from my 4wheel drive because i have no class. College?? What the f do I need college for when I can fly these shiny jets with just my G.E.D.?

I got your classless and pathetic right here pretty boy.

What?

 

[jetflier]

Actually, by the strict dictionary definition, they are:

From Merriam-Webster's Dictionary, with relevant sections in bold -

1scab Pronunciation: \ˈskab\ Function:noun Etymology:Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Swedish skabbr scab; akin to Old English sceabb scab, Latin scabere to scratch — more at shaveDate:13th century1: scabies of domestic animals2: a crust of hardened blood and serum over a wound3 a: a contemptible person b (1): a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2): a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3): a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms4: any of various bacterial or fungus diseases of plants characterized by crustaceous spots; also : one of the spots
​

Pilots are the only labor group that think the term "scab" has such a tight definition. I come from a long line of union members on both sides of my family, but they were all blue-collar workers. To them, "scab" can mean pretty much any person that undercuts union wages or work rules, works for a non-union company, doesn't join the union at a union company, etc... My grandfathers and great-grandfathers would think it absurd for a union worker to defend someone that does the same job as them for a third the pay.

DITTO !!!....

As unionized employees we as a group need to change,....or it will never stop !

As per the definition of scab, (period).

As was mentioned in a previous post, NWA contract did not enhance the airline pilot profession, it sent it back. I voted no along with 40 % of the pilot group. However, ALPA, specifically our senior pilots drove the yes vote by attaching the PWA to the pension. And the senior pilots walk away with their 12000/month pensions while a junior pilot enjoys a 100/month pension ! NWA ALPA dropped the ball on this one.

As a profession we need to "draw a line in the sand, and begin to take it back, at some point or we are doomed to repeat the past mistakes made by our profession.

Skybus pilots are hopefully the bottom of the industry.

So hopefully as a , we begin to rebuild our profession as a unified group, and act like a union.

Any pilot who takes a job at a undercutting airline, paying substandard wages should be viewed as a scab, because eventually they will pull all wages down towards their level.

 

[Jmoney]

Home

That and you're home every night... pay might suck but QOL is pretty darn good and hey it's an Airbus type...

Yeah, if by "home" you mean a cardboard shack down in Skybus shantytown. I think this airline will give rise to a whole new breed of "urban outdoorsmen."

I salute you fine adventurers! You may camp out my back alley any day-just remember-no dogfighting! I hear that can lead to unfortunate legal issues! I would be proud to share a bottle of ripple with you over the burned-out barrel you call a cookstove/fireplace!

-Onward and Upward!

 

[WalterSobchak]

Any pilot who takes a job at a undercutting airline, paying substandard wages should be viewed as a scab, because eventually they will pull all wages down towards their level.

So, then...by that definition...you're all a bunch of scabs...

 

[jetflier]

So, then...by that definition...you're all a bunch of scabs...

From Merriam-Webster's Dictionary, with relevant sections in bold -

1scab http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gifPronunciation: \ˈskab\ Function:noun Etymology:Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Swedish skabbr scab; akin to Old English sceabb scab, Latin scabere to scratch — more at shaveDate:13th century1: scabies of domestic animals2: a crust of hardened blood and serum over a wound3 a: a contemptible person b (1): a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2): a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3): a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms4: any of various bacterial or fungus diseases of plants characterized by crustaceous spots; also : one of the spots

Please take note of :


(4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms:

That's the Webster definition.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Please take note of :

(4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms:

That's the Webster definition.

Ummm, yeah...I caught that the first time. I was pointing out that YOUR (and, in some ways the MerriamWebster) definition essentially covers EVERY pilot.

 

[PCL_128]

Ummm, yeah...I caught that the first time. I was pointing out that YOUR (and, in some ways the MerriamWebster) definition essentially covers EVERY pilot.

No, it really doesn't. In jetflier's case, he was forced into accepting substandard conditions due to the slanted bankruptcy laws in this country. He had no choice. The pilots going to Virgin American and Skybus have a choice. Plenty of airlines are hiring. If you make a conscious decision to go work for an airline that pays a fraction of what everyone else is paid, then you are part of the problem.

 

[jetflier]

Ummm, yeah...I caught that the first time. I was pointing out that YOUR (and, in some ways the MerriamWebster) definition essentially covers EVERY pilot.

OH !.......Puleeze !......(not even worth a comment)

 

[Bluestreak]

I can second that. I also live there but thankfully am moving back to FL for NetJets.

Nothing worse than thousands of red neck, truck driving, obnoxious Buckeye fans that have nothing to do with the university in the first place but think they are entitled to be fans since they live in Columbus. Heck 90% of their fans have never even attended college, let alone graduated from high school. And it shows by the way they act: classless and pathetic.

Man,for a second I thought you were talking about Clemson or USC fans.I call them "sidewalk alumni".

 

[RP170]

Nice. If only you made sense or were anywhere close to reality would you begin to become reliable.

You're right. Most OSU fans would not understand what I'm talking about. It's a whole different class of people if you attend a game in Ann Arbor or a game in Columbus. I've been to both more than once.

And I'm not alking financially, I'm talking about the way the fans act and treat the opposing fans, etc. OSU fans have to be the most disrespectful and rude people I've seen (Wisconsin is a close second) and I have been to several college footbal venues over the years.

 

[surfnfly]

Also remember to have cash on hand if you get thirsty flying those out and backs cause you will have to pay for every water,coke,coffee you want. Thats right they even charge the crew. Heard it first hand form someone that went there and already quit. He said they are nickel and diming them to death.What a sh#tbag outfit. And for all those CHM folks GO GATORS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[texarkana]

WTF you guys think youre so holy? My HS bud who dropped out at 16 yrs old installs fire alarms in commercial buildings for more money per hour than most RJ captains make, his wages are union negotiated. He makes more than we do to to a much easier job, does that make us all scabs?

Furthermore some of you guys can say scab all you want, but most of these union negotiated wages are PATHETIC. If you want to use you're universal definition of a scab, we were all scabs in the mid 90's when we agreed to fly JETS at less than mainline pay.

 

[lookin4better]

Actually, by the strict dictionary definition, they are:

From Merriam-Webster's Dictionary, with relevant sections in bold -​

1scab Pronunciation: \ˈskab\ Function:noun Etymology:Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Swedish skabbr scab; akin to Old English sceabb scab, Latin scabere to scratch — more at shaveDate:13th century1: scabies of domestic animals2: a crust of hardened blood and serum over a wound3 a: a contemptible person b (1): a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2): a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3): a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms4: any of various bacterial or fungus diseases of plants characterized by crustaceous spots; also : one of the spots​

Pilots are the only labor group that think the term "scab" has such a tight definition. I come from a long line of union members on both sides of my family, but they were all blue-collar workers. To them, "scab" can mean pretty much any person that undercuts union wages or work rules, works for a non-union company, doesn't join the union at a union company, etc... My grandfathers and great-grandfathers would think it absurd for a union worker to defend someone that does the same job as them for a third the pay.

so regional pilots that upgraded due to explosive growth while mainline furlouged and flew those same routes for MUCH less are ok though right? I suppose You will justify it with something, economy, they gave it up etc....but it sure fits the definition you posted.....just sayin

 

[lookin4better]

WTF you guys think youre so holy? My HS bud who dropped out at 16 yrs old installs fire alarms in commercial buildings for more money per hour than most RJ captains make, his wages are union negotiated. He makes more than we do to to a much easier job, does that make us all scabs?

Furthermore some of you guys can say scab all you want, but most of these union negotiated wages are PATHETIC. If you want to use you're universal definition of a scab, we were all scabs in the mid 90's when we agreed to fly JETS at less than mainline pay.

THANK YOU!!! like I said....watch the justifications start flying! just like eh em...the same type of excuses used by.....well i dont think i need to say.... hey Mr Black how is your kettle?

 

[lookin4better]

If you make a conscious decision to go work for an airline that pays a fraction of what everyone else is paid, then you are part of the problem.

just like EVERY pilot who went to a regional ....there was no gun to your head

put down the crack pipe bro!

 

[lookin4better]

The two military guys have no clue about the airline industry, but thats a fact that has been proven time and time again. They dont do any research they just take the first civilian flying job they can find.

Coming from a regional FO, this means about nothing. So while these military guys are waiting for the better carriers to call they cant have jobs? Good on them, an Airbus type and a job while they wait for their shot at FedEx or whatever their choice may be.....good for them! Options are a good thing

 

[lookin4better]

And we wonder why the industry sucks!

ONCE again.....coming from a regional pilot....kettle meet black! Welcome to a FREE market

Maybe someone should post the definition to hypocrite?