skybus is so cheap......

[HA25]

and again.. if you're ok with the wages at Spirit, why not Skybus? How do you know what the 12 year scale at Skybus looks like? They don't even know yet.. it's being hashed out. WAIT until it's released, find out the work rules and pay credit/trip credit scheme... THEN, and only THEN render judgement.

Sometimes I think you enjoy this argument more than the facts.

 

[HA25]

ate. Besides, I'm not just talking about the hourly rate. The gross compensation is pathetic also. Just $80-90k for a Captain is absurd.

but you're ok with an MD-11 international CA making that with NO profit share, and NO stock options, and WORKING 17+ days in one shot?

 

[PCL_128]

and again.. if you're ok with the wages at Spirit, why not Skybus?

Because the wages at Skybus are a fraction of what they are at Spirit!!!! How thick is your frickin' skull?

Sometimes I think you enjoy this argument more than the facts.

Funny, I was thinking the same about you. But of course, I'm almost convinced that this is nothing but flamebait at this point. Nobody could be this ignorant.

 

[PCL_128]

but you're ok with an MD-11 international CA making that with NO profit share, and NO stock options, and WORKING 17+ days in one shot?

No, it should be higher, but that's the market wage in the supplemental cargo world, so the Gemini pilots aren't undercutting anyone as the Skybus pilots are.

 

[HA25]

No, it should be higher, but that's the market wage in the supplemental cargo world, so the Gemini pilots aren't undercutting anyone as the Skybus pilots are.

I know (thru anecdotal experience) of ot of UPS, Fedex, Atlas, and Astar (they're ACMI you know) that would strongly disagree...

I've said it before.. I'm not thinking of going there for 1st year pay, or even 2nd.. I'm going there for future growth and a longer term career at a company with a fresh business plan/model and a lot of upside.. When/If the day comes that I earn more than you, I PROMISE not to be as much of an a-hole about it as you're being.

Time will tell if I'm right.

I've got to get on with life now.. Take care and safe flying.

 

[HA25]

Because the wages at Skybus are a fraction of what they are at Spirit!!!! How thick is your frickin' skull?

Apparently not as thick as yours..

do the math, and get back to us (hint, Skybus is the 319's, so use the 319 pay).. Also, note the *pay calc* comment on skybus PROVING that hourly rate isn't the whole story.

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/spirit.html


http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/skybus.html

 

[Publishers]

I do not get why you all are always slamming each other when perhaps one should look at the fact that new airlines start should be a good thing. The basic facts are that new airlines are not going to come in the door and pay wages you think are good. Some make it, some (most) do not.
Many of the pilots you know today got started because of the opportunity presented by new people trying to start companies. Even when they did not work out, the type ratings and or experience helped them get the next job. This is nothing new, this is pretty much the way it has always been. I cannot believe how resentful of people who risked to get companies going from nothing you are when many would have been excluded from the process had they not.

 

[PCL_128]

If a new company can't afford to pay market wages from the start, then they don't deserve to be in business at all. Period.

 

[PCL_128]

I've said it before.. I'm not thinking of going there for 1st year pay, or even 2nd.. I'm going there for future growth and a longer term career at a company with a fresh business plan/model and a lot of upside.. When/If the day comes that I earn more than you, I PROMISE not to be as much of an a-hole about it as you're being.

In other words, you're willing to sell out the profession and stab your fellow pilots in the back just for a chance at getting ahead yourself.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If a new company can't afford to pay market wages from the start, then they don't deserve to be in business at all. Period.

Is capitalism a function of "deserve".

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In other words, you're willing to sell out the profession and stab your fellow pilots in the back just for a chance at getting ahead yourself.

Don't you think that your guilt for your GIA days is driving you to be a just a bit more visceral than is necessary for an airline as insignificant as SkyBus.

Crusaders get kind of annoying after 4000 posts or so. Particularly when trying to absolve themselves of some selfimposed guilt over a past career decision.

This assinine thread has been at the top of the heap for days.

Let it go.

 

[PCL_128]

an airline as insignificant as SkyBus.

Faulty premise. I don't believe Skybus to be "insignificant" at all. I consider them to be a significant threat to the future of this profession. If they manage to turn a profit and stay in business for a few years, then all of us will suffer during the next downturn. Are you ready for DAL 767 Captains to be making $100/hr? That's what will happen if this nonsense goes on.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Don't be so dramatic. Cabotage is a way bigger threat. Air Nepalese pilots making 14 bucks an hour are a far bigger threat than SkyBus. SkyBus is no better or worse than any other LCC. Get off your high horse. You act like AirTran is leading the way on payscales and work rules. Why can't you just enjoy your company and your job without turning it into a referendum on the reshaping of the industry?

 

[climbhappy]

"quote" if a new company can't afford to pay market wages from the start they don't deserve to be at all..period."

that's another fresh load of crap.

hey, any company any day of the week can put a shingle out and "open for business" you moron.

if they have a good product and service usually people will come. if they're inefficient they will cease to exist. the market sets the price for the product. this is so elementary.

where did get this "deserve to be in business" crap?"

if nobody likes skybus, then they will go out of business and you can tell us all with me in the front of the line, we're dummies.

the funny thing is people are coming out of the woodwork to fly on these planes. that is due to the "wal mart"



price is sole determinant except for the wealthy as to how much demand there is for this product called an airline ticket. southwest, proved it. by the way, ken giles, 25 years at southwest is the COO i believe at skybus.

go tell him he is an idiot PCL_128

i could say things like survival of the fittest, or other cliches, but for you it is: this profession is a mature industry . in mature industries, wages plummet. all other fixed costs stay the same . it is called competition. i sugggest you take a course at your local community college in marketing or finance.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Maybe he could gain some insight from Tom Cooper in a continuing education economics class at Gulfstream. I think remedial course were part of the PFT program there.

 

[climbhappy]

just between me, you and the fencepost, none of the guys at fedex, ups, southwest probably give a crap about skybus. they're making good money. it is never going to change we think. freight is strong. southwest is southwest

in fact the legacies have great prospects for growth in international travel.

want a good example of something done half ass and it was killed? Independence Air. that half baked idea with rjs ,with a CASM of 15 cents based on a plan assuming oil got no higher than 30/barrel, is the reason people go to grad school

 

[Capt1124]

Hmmm, the comments about GIA seemed to take the wind out of his sails. Working for AirTran- the original scab outfit- is one thing, but being a GIA customer is quite another.

 

[PCL_128]

Hmmm, the comments about GIA seemed to take the wind out of his sails.

Actually, I just had to go fly for a few a couple of days. Can't spend all of my time on here, you know.

Climbhappy and Pogue Mahone have just proven to be as ignorant and dense as FMS-Speed. They want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that what happens at Skybus doesn't affect the rest of the industry. That's a nice fantasy world, but reality doesn't quite work like that. In reality, Skybus is going to drag down this profession and all of us will suffer.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Being called ignorant by a fella who is more concerned with SkyBus than cabotage and MC Licensing? Coupled with a post total on FI equal to his total time?

I can live with that.

 

[PCL_128]

Being called ignorant by a fella who is more concerned with SkyBus than cabotage and MC Licensing? Coupled with a post total on FI equal to his total time?

I can live with that.

Never said that I'm more concerned with Skybus than cabotage. Both are very important issues that pilots need to concern themselves with. Both will destroy what's left of this profession.