Sky Diving

[rumpletumbler]

I've been considering jumping lately. Maybe next spring etc. Could people who have experienced it give me the pros/cons etc? Thank you.

 

[stingray]

I've done a couple of jumps,
Pro's-its a rush, its fun, and there is nothing like it

CON's-people do break bones and worse even with a properly operating chutes , the worst con of course is death due to some catastophic failure or some other screw up.

If you decide to do it find a good qualified place to, most con's are rare and minimized at a proper school .

 

[FN FAL]

cons? are there any?

I have over 500 jumps, there were some times where life got interesting, you just have to be good judge of what's smart to do and what's not.

Like don't go on low timer 20 ways...they don't work out and everybody is trying to kill you.

Don't jump with people that take unecessary risks.

Don't jump borrowed gear.

Don't jump just before a thunderstorm.

Don't jump student gear with FXC automatic researve deployment devices, after you get off student status...stick with cypress though!

Don't jump with people that have been drinking or are stoned.

The pros:

It's fun

It's safe

It's a great way to prove them stupid math problems wrong you had to do in college

It's addictive

It's expensive...oooops that's a con!

 

[garf12]

I went two weekends ago with my CFI. I did tandem, and it was a blast. I probably will not do it again for a while though cause I allready have enough expensive hobbies.

heres a pic from it..
http://www.aviationforum.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=54323

 

[RipCurl]

Pros - You get to jump out of an airplane. While it's flying. And that's fun.


Cons - You are jumping out of an airplane. While it's flying. And that's dangerous.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

Couple of thousand jumps, military freefall and civilian, Jumpmaster ratings for military, AFF and Tandem, know where and who to send you to in the SE. PM me if you want more info.

 

[Eagleflip]

Skydiving? It has been the most exiciting thing I've ever experienced. OK, getting shot at was more exciting, but not real fun. Let's stick with jumping.

With over 120 jumps, I consider myself just a neophyte at the sport. There is much more to learn that origianally appears. And I'd slap on a rig right now and do a 60 second delay without a second thought, even though it's been over 20 years since I last sampled the sport.

The highlights?

Falling through a towering cu and tasting the misty spirit of budding rain.

Sensing the ground rise up toward me, all the while apparently floating on a strong cushion of...what? A force. You can't see it, but you can touch it.

You know that air is real. You can push it, smell it, let it flow through your mouth and nose, filling you with that cold taste of absolute exhilaration and effortless design.

Leaning out of the front seat of a Supercub, sitting sideways because my rig (fat as it was) wouldn't allow me to sit normally. Climibing to altitude immediately after takeoff, I leaned out of the airplane and barked at the golfers at the Caddyshack-like country club. God, I loved that day.

I echo FN FAL's recommendations--and I emphasize one. Don't jump, no matter how tempted you are--with idiots. And it doesn't take a skygod to figure out who the idiots are. Your first impression will work at this sport just like any other.

Jump. Go enjoy life. We weren't place here to lead meaningless lives full of wonder at what could have been.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I have about 1500 jumps and agree completely with FN-FAL and Eagleflip. GO!!
Excellent posts by both. As a tandem master there is no better feeling than taking someone on their first jumps and seeing the look and hearing the sounds as they jump!!! FN-FAL's list is right on! I will emphasize again his statement about jumping with ANYONE who has been smoking or drinking. Don't go near them, no matter how much you want to try and 'fit in'. Accident waiting to happen. About the only thing that I personally can equate the rush is driving a Bobsled down the track or sliding Skeleton!!! OH YEAH!!
Jump all over it and have a great time!!

 

[FracCapt]

Skydiving really is a kick a$$ sport, and the comraderie is some of the best. Many of my best friends were met through skydiving. I'm nearing 2000 jumps or so...it's all a guesstimate at this point - I haven't logged anything since jump #1000. I don't work in the sport, it's all just fun jumping for me. As others have said....DO IT!

In addition to what the others have said to stay away from....here's another thing to avoid...and it's a biggie....don't downsize your canopy too fast. Most people want to jump smaller and smaller canopies...and most can handle them when everything goes right, but when the sh!t hits the fan, they may be well beyond their skill level. I love my tiny cross braced canopy...but it took a long time to work up(or down) to it.

 

[UnAnswerd]

Does anyone know what the world record is as far as free-falling from the highest altitude? I seem to remember something about a man who took some sort of balloon up to an insane altitude (curvature of Earth visible), and then letting go. I think he fell for a total of 20 minuets or something...

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Captain Joe Kittinger, USAF, 1960, 102,800 ft. 4 minutes, 36 seconds, reached 614 mph.

 

[FN FAL]

In addition to what the others have said to stay away from....here's another thing to avoid...and it's a biggie....don't downsize your canopy too fast. Most people want to jump smaller and smaller canopies...and most can handle them when everything goes right, but when the sh!t hits the fan, they may be well beyond their skill level. I love my tiny cross braced canopy...but it took a long time to work up(or down) to it.

You're right about that one, I found since I jump intermittantly now, that staying in the larger canopies is a good thing. Not too large though. I go 225 and 190 Sabre is about as racy as I care to go. If needed, I have access to a nice rental 200 that does o.k. in a pinch. It has a cypress, so I feel pretty good about that.

Most of our student and rental gear came right from the people that made the movie "cutaway" with Gary Busey and Dennis Rodman. Although it was kind of a sad movie, it is neat seeing the rigs in the movie then jumping them or seeing a student land with one of them.

 

[COEX-FO]

If at First You Don't Succeed,

Skydiving is NOT For You!

 

[SEFlyer]

You're right about that one, I found since I jump intermittantly now, that staying in the larger canopies is a good thing. Not too large though. I go 225 and 190 Sabre is about as racy as I care to go. If needed, I have access to a nice rental 200 that does o.k. in a pinch. It has a cypress, so I feel pretty good about that.

Most of our student and rental gear came right from the people that made the movie "cutaway" with Gary Busey and Dennis Rodman. Although it was kind of a sad movie, it is neat seeing the rigs in the movie then jumping them or seeing a student land with one of them.

I prefer the triathalon. Tried the Sabre a few times, and I think it tried to kill me once with all the line twists I got. Right on about staying in a comfortable SLOW canopy.

 

[Jump Pilot]

Pro: fun

Con: death

 

[ATL2CDG]

My senior AFJROTC instructor, LTCOL Monty Rice (RIP, sir), had quite a few phrases he'd ramble out anytime a keyword popped up in class.

Regarding skydiving (or any other mid-air 'evacuations'), the former USAF navigator, a well-known tightwad, would say: "Unless you're throwin' a handful of $100 bills or a coupon to Steak 'n Shake out the hatch, I ain't jumpin' off a perfectly good airplane".

 

[TundraT]

Years ago when I started jumping, the canopies were round and square canopies were still in the development phase. We used to say, “If you’re round, you are sound. If you are square you are not all there.” Obviously thing have improved over the years and even the reserve canopies are squares. When I was asked why I jumped out of a perfectly good airplane I would reply, “Most airplane accidents happen during take off and landing, reduce the risk, get out somewhere in between.”



C-9294 Jumpmaster

 

[Corona]

I think the biggest con would be that you might get a 'chute made by Acme. Instead of a chute, you have an anvil. Then, you make a Wile E. Coyote-shaped hole in the desert floor. And the anvil lands on your head.
C

 

[TonyC]

Are there any schools out there that start students off with solo freefall? I know of guys that have started out with static line - - and tandem seems to be extremely popular. I've ONLY done freefall, but that was many moons ago.


.

 

[Big Duke Six]

Corona, ROTFLMAO!!

Tony, yes there are many schools out there that do that. It's called Accelerated Free Fall (AFF). I'm not positive on the numbers here, but its something like eight or ten jumps total, with the first few being with two instructors jumping with you, then I believe it goes down to just one guy with you for your last few. You get the idea.

I have done three tandem jumps, spaced out over about ten years. If I ever decide to "take the plunge" and get certified, I think AFF would be the way to go.

 

[avbug]

Skydiving for 20 years now, and I highly recommend it. Be prepared to contend with addiction. The good kind.

There is no such thing as a perfectly good airplane.

Wuffo: one who stands about asking, "Wuffo you goan jump outta a perfectly good airplane, wuffo?"

Blue skies, black death.

 

[plattsburgher]

Apologies to all the experienced skydivers who have replied above:

I flew a couple of summers at a drop zone and did a couple of tandem jumps. I liked it but, it couldn't compete with the time at the controls between when the jumpers had all left and when I landed to pick up the next load. Racing to get it down for the next go: just don't shock cool the engine and stay VFR. A little G and a lot of bank all on somebody else's dime.

For me that beat the skydiving hands down.

 

[sonofaeagle]

I'm copying and pasting my experience from last weekend.

1st time jumping last saturday.


Holy geeze that was crazy. SkyDive Virginia took us up to 13,500 to prove that I'd make a great rock.

A big thankyou goes out to Chuck for making it such a postivie experience... and not dry humping me after hitting hard and landing on my face. Winds were pretty crazy. We barely made the airport. 50 knots at altitude, 15 gusting to 30 on the ground. We were dotted all over. After dodging an antenna to make a clearing we came down what seemed a little hard. I imagine it was a great landing considering the conditions. First thing he said after pulling the rip cord was "what do you think?" All I could say was, "I think I lost the ripcord". Turns out I did but he snatched it out of the air after I let go. Saved me 20 bucks. Next he said, "I don't think were gonna make the airport." I figured thats what they say to all the noobs. I tried to catch my breath and take it all in. He was concentrating on flying so no small talk.

It was great turning around and seeing the guy video taping me landing in some brush, followed by someone elses camera guy...then off in the distance about two miles away I see someone dissapearing below the treeline. First thought was either that was my brother or my buddy landing in a baseball field. They ended up having to hit their 3rd option for a landing spot. They got blown away from the 1st two. Had to dodge power lines and land in a horse pasture.
Pretty darn exciting. Unfortunatly my camera guy forgot to push record! (fuc******). He was cool though, so I forgave him.

Sorry if these are random thoughts with little structure. Gets my heart going again just thinking about it.

 

[sonofaeagle]

pros: amazing... if you can imagine what its like being born, thats what it was like for me.


cons: expensive, and like flying you have to wait around all day if the weather is bad.

 

[Stinkbug]

Those of you saying it's expensive, could you elaborate? What kind of money are we talking about it for someone starting out, as well as for more serious skydivers?

My worst fear in life is falling. I've often thought I need to go head to head with this fear and try skydiving. I have nine static line jumps from my Army days and I remember that it became a little less scary and a little more exciting around jump eight or nine. So I think I could do it...

 

[sonofaeagle]

I paid about 200 bucks + 60 for the video. They told me once you are able to jump by yourself, and own your own equipment its like 20 a jump. Sometimes you can get a discount if you can get 6 people to go. (10 bucks). This was at Skydive Virginia.

 

[avbug]

Those of you saying it's expensive, could you elaborate? What kind of money are we talking about it for someone starting out, as well as for more serious skydivers?

If you're training, expect to pay between one hundred fifty, and two hundred dollars for a tandem skydive. Video us usually between forty and seventy five dollars a skydive. Video is highly recommended; you'll want to show it off, but it's also a valueable learning tool.

Accelerated free fall involves going out the door with your own parachute and one or two (almost always two) jumpmasters. These individuals follow up on class room training to teach you to freefall in real time. You'll pull your own cord, and go through a series of awareness drills on the way down. You'll have fun. Cost is typically about 180.00 a skydive; your time on student status as an AFF student may be seven or more coached skydives.

You may also go through a static line and freefall program in which you have nobody in the air with you; you're on your own. When I started, we went out the door in green and cold air, with dazed and confused people dangling all over under big green round parachutes. Today, you seldom see that, outside the military. Back then, we did freefall training on our own, nobody else in the air around us, with very big packs, chest mount reserves, and bulky round PC canopies (which required a lot more attention to detail in packing than todays square ram-air canopies). Again, you're far better off with the AFF training programs today; they're a little more expensive, but you get a far better education, and it's a whole lot safer.

Once you are off student status, you're normally paying for the ride to altitude, and gear rental. The cost of the ride to altitude varies. Most places it's about eighteen bucks to fifteen or eighteen thousand feet (MSL), though a lot of DZ's go out at 12,000 AGL. A good share of my jumping has been in mountainous terrain, so other than low level deployments, it's jump altitudes have been typically 18,000 or better. Your gear rental will cost about thirty bucks.

You're better off renting gear at first until you find something you like. Someone mentioned not borrowing gear. I disagree; you can often borrow rigs initially while trying different canopies and rigs, until you find what suits you. Borrow from trusted folks at the DZ, and follow the counsel of the drop zone owner and safety (DZO), training advisor (S&TA), and jumpmasters. Today, going with too small a canopy, or too high a performance canopy, is what hurts a lot of low time jumpers. Take it slow. I still jump "grandpa" equipment by most jumpers standards...it may not be the hottest canopy on the DZ, but it's very comfortable, very managable, and it's hard to enjoy a skydive while being buried, or nursing a compound fracture. Skydiving shouldn't hurt.

As far as equipment costs go, that's up to you. Buy new, and expect to pay 4,500 or better for a rig and equipment. That's two new parachute canopies (main, reserve) at 1,500 to 1,800 each--or more), a new container at 1,400 or more, plus jump suit (200 bucks) helmet (two hundred bucks), altimeter (two hundred to five hundred bucks), and a common piece of equipment that a lot of jumpers use today called an automatic activation device (or automatic opening device). The most commonly used is a Cypress, and plan on fifteen hundred bucks for that. New can add up quickly.

Having said that, buying used can be a good place for your first rig. I've purchased and used several rigs from ebay. Done with caution and a very thorough inspection by a trusted rigger, that can be a good way to go, using escrow services or other protection. I've always had good luck, and still have a rig I jump that I purchased on ebay. Used rigs can often be had for a thousand dollars to twenty two hundred dollars. My ebay rig cost about nine hundred bucks, is an older vector, PD190 canopy, with a Raven II reserve. I have a couple other mains I throw in when the mood strikes.

What that means for you is that once you have your own gear, you're only paying for a reserve repack every four months, and the ride to altitude (and emergency room bills if you get stupid). Rides to altitude vary, from the eighteen bucks mentioned before to two dollars for the ride, plus a dollar for every thousand feet of altitude.

When I've been rushed or couldn't risk being up too long, I've spent the summer doing hops and pops...up to 3,000 and out the door. Five seconds or so of freefall, open, land. Cheap skydives, good for clearing your head. I've always thought the exit was one of the best parts, anyway.

A lot of skydivers won't pack their own canopies. Some DZ's have kids that thrive on packing parachutes for everyone else. Pack jobs run from five bucks to twenty bucks or more...some people feel it's worth it. Part of your student training should include training on packing a ram air canopy; I feel it's very important in understanding the parachute, it's operation, the deployment sequence, and emergencies. It's far from difficult, and something you can do yourself (not your reserve; that gets packed by a FAA certificated rigger). It saves you money, and you always have control over how it's packed, and how it opens.

Blue skies.

Black death.

 

[FracCapt]

I prefer the triathalon. Tried the Sabre a few times, and I think it tried to kill me once with all the line twists I got. Right on about staying in a comfortable SLOW canopy.

Back in '94 I had a Sabre 150 break 2 ribs on opening. It had slammed me a couple times before(I had about 300 on that canopy), but never anywhere near that bad. A buddy that saw it said as soon as I released the pilot chute it was like an instant canopy. I later wondered if I had packed it slider down...but several jumpers that saw it from the air and on the ground confirmed the slider was up, and came down extremely fast.

I ditched that canopy immediately. I have jumped many different types since then, and I like the new Precision line. I also have a Sabre2 150, which is only similar to the original Sabre in name. I use that one for jumps I need a larger, more stable canopy than my normal canopy - such as for wingsuit, skysurf, or planned landings in very tight, confined areas. My FUN main is a Xaos 103 loaded about 2.1. My reserve is a PD160. I've had reserve rides on small reserves, and it scared me a couple times. I've landed a PD126 in a very tight area, with a quartering tailwind...and it was not fun. I would've been much better off under a 160(I would've made the airport, instead of the ONLY other area without trees within miles). If I KNEW I would land on the airport, every single time, without a doubt....I wouldn't have a problem jumping a small reserve...but when you cutaway, there's a good chance you're landing out...unless you are one of the lucky that open right over the landing area anyways. I'm rarely in the middle of the load...usually nearly first or nearly last out.

The primary thing I look for in all my canopies is that they are fairly docile in line twists. Some, like the Stiletto, will spin like mad with a couple twists. The Velocity is not as bad, but once it starts to spin, it happens extremely fast(due to the typically high wing loadings on the Velo). Both of my current canopy types fly straight in line twists, unless you blow a brake or something.

 

[FN FAL]

You're better off renting gear at first until you find something you like. Someone mentioned not borrowing gear. I disagree; you can often borrow rigs initially while trying different canopies and rigs, until you find what suits you. Borrow from trusted folks at the DZ, and follow the counsel of the drop zone owner and safety (DZO), training advisor (S&TA), and jumpmasters. .

That's true, I would be lying if I said I never borrow gear. I rent all the time...and sometimes I never know the person who packed the rig before I jumped it. There are always new faces around the DZ and some of those people work off training and jumps by packing for the master rigger/DZ owner.

I have never had problems transitioning between rigs. Jumping back and forth between leg strap mounted pilot chutes and bottom of container stowed pilot chutes, never bothered me much. I won't jump leg mounted pilot chutes anymore...too much chance of early deployment. Been there, seen that, got several of the t-shirts.

I also never had a problem with showing up cold at a drop zone while traveling and winding up having to use one of their student SOS rigs with both ripcords on the chest.

In fact, one of these excursions cost me a round canopy reserve out, after an FXC fired just under 1900 feet. It was the most awesome four way skydive, too bad my "ditter" happened to be the look on the other guy's faces when they remembered I had their p.o.s. student gear on and we were rapidly blasting through 3,000 feet.

I tracked for a second, deployed and was about to unstow my brakes, when all the sudden I hear "flink" and I feel the container get loose. I had survived a previous FXC fire with a square reserve once, but I had no experience with rounds or round reserves.

I looked over my shoulder, saw a long line of white behind me, looked at my altimiter and saw that I had plenty of altitude. I then grabbed the SOS D-ring with both hands and this is no lie...a marine gunny would have been proud of me...I shouted the mantra as loud as I could, "Squares will get you THERE! But rounds will get you DOWN!"

I then extended both arms as far as they would go and in a split second I was on my back looking up at the now limp, but previously perfectly opened main. I had never seen that before. About a second later, I was treated to the sound of a round canopy opening. Never heard that one before either. It sounded like someone was fluffing a big bed sheet over my head. Then...whoop...there it is!

I took in the view of the round, enjoying the simple dorkyness of it and found what appeared to be red colored steering lines. I though for a minute that I would chase down my cut away main and reserve D-bag, but I seen that other guys from our skydive were doing that. Plus, since my manuvering was limited, I stuck out my position over the recently plowed and dusty dry farm field. Thank goodness there wasn't any wind out.

As I prepared to land this thing, I mentally got re-trained on PLF landings and made ready for the inevitable. One thing that impressed me about my landing, was the fact that I was able to walk the next day. The other thing was the brute force of my impact. I hit so hard that I compressed INTO my sneakers...in fact, the imact had so much force that I actually got to meet the Chinaman that made my tennis shoes.

Since this event followed physics like a text book, my meeting with the Chinaman didn't last long and I got to experience the "equal and opposite reaction". Which was for me to be catapulted back to rural Indiana...and I shot out of those sneakers in the biggest cloud of Illiana dust you ever saw in your life. I went through my risers and actually wound up bouncing upright onto my feet. I think I went over at least once for sure.

Well anywhoo...to make a long story even dumber, I realize I got both silver handles in my hands and I see the club van making it's way towards me, raising it's own clouds of Indiana dust. I see the other jumpers have landed near my main and reserve deployment bag. Life is good!

The rigger got to work on getting the re-pack done and volunteered me the use of his rig to go up and make another skydive. As he handed it to me, he stated, "Don't worry, my FXC is set to 800 feet!"

"Marvelous!", I said as I walked out to meet the next set of jumpers and off we went to skydive again.

This happened while I was on my down to OWB to interview for a 135 position, and not only did I have no intention of skydiving that day, but I had not planned on staying overnight either. Since I had the luxury of time, I went out for beers and pizza with the guys, had a great time and booked a hotel room in town.

But anway, borrowing gear is not all bad...you just better have a good head on your shoulders.

 

[BD King]

FN FAL,

How about them packers (parachute, that is)