Skills needed to be an A&P

[CRJ's suck]

Nice post avbug. Like he said, you need to have integrity in what you do and treat everything with the same attention to detail. Lube jobs are just as important as engine changes. If you do decide to become an A&P tech, search around for some good cheap schools if you going to use that route to get your certs. If I knew then what I know now, I could of had at least $20,000 more in my pocket and had alot more fun than going to a Christian brothers university outside of Chicago.

 

[Gatorman]

:angryfire
I was going to say something about a previous post. I will just put out my own flames.

I am better than that, You snott-nose college boy

 

[g4800xp]

Who is the snot nosed college boy?

 

[avbug]

The ability to do something many A&Ps can not, under stand that the pilot is not an A&P and while he may sound like an idiot he may have a few things on his or her mind relating to flight/safety of flight, customer service etc..
So when you say "did it do this?" and I say I did not notice the SAT/TAS between FL390 and 360 and compare it to the bla bla bla, it might mean I simply did not know the bla bla bla was connected to the bla bla bla. Some of the questions I have been asked, a test pilot would not know.I am not knocking all A&Ps, just the ones with a myopic view of the Big Picture. I wanted to be an A&P to tie in with antique auto restorations I was doing, somehow ended up flying instead. Good Luck

I think he may be referring to your post.

I'm both. A long time professional pilot, and a long time mechanic, mechanic's assistant, inspector, director of maintenance, etc. I continue to fly, and to turn wrenches.

I frequently see that many pilots see mechanics as idiots. Your post reflects that. I frequently see that many mechanics see pilots as idiots. I tend to agree with that. Your post also reflects that.

As a pilot turning in a squawk, I try to provide as much information as possible. When X occured, I saw XX breaker pop, XXX system failed, and I saw XXXX on the ammeter. I was attempting to do XXXXX at the time, and this is what I did to resolve the matter, per the checklist. If it's an engine problem, I'm going to relay the same data that would be relayed if I were doing a trend monitoring function at altitude, including all power settings such as ITT, EPR, EGT, N1, N2, pressure altitude, outside air temperature, true/indicated airspeed, etc. Things that might just be useful to someone who doesn't have the benifit of dragging it back up to altitude to see what was going on.

Most of them time when a pilot writes up a squawk, it's more along the lines of "Doesn't work." "Inoperative." "Wants to turn left." "Won't turn on." Etc. Never mind that the bewildered mechanic would really like to know exactly why the appliance doesn't appear to work and it's mode of malfunction, and the circumstances under which it malfunctioned, as well as what was done to investigate it and the results, etc. Important stuff. If the mechanic doesn't have much to go on, the pilot has what's coming to him when it gets pushed out the door with a CND write-up (Could Not Duplicate).

I don't care if you're a test pilot, but if you're flying the airplane I certainly expect you to know those systems as well as I do. Tell me you don't, and you've just become one of those dumb pilots...and lost any semblence of respect I have for you. Of course, that would make me one of those pilots who think you need to be a test pilot based on the questions I'm asking you...but the fact that you think that is the very thing that paints you as an idiot...which is exactly why most pilots are thought of by maintenance personel as idiots. And, I suspect, why Gatorman made the very reserved professional remark he did.

I'm guessing he could easily have let you have it with one or both barrells, so don't get too worked up yet. He just might.

 

[Weasel Keeper]

As a pilot turning in a squawk, I try to provide as much information as possible. When X occured, I saw XX breaker pop, XXX system failed, and I saw XXXX on the ammeter. I was attempting to do XXXXX at the time, and this is what I did to resolve the matter, per the checklist. If it's an engine problem, I'm going to relay the same data that would be relayed if I were doing a trend monitoring function at altitude, including all power settings such as ITT, EPR, EGT, N1, N2, pressure altitude, outside air temperature, true/indicated airspeed, etc. Things that might just be useful to someone who doesn't have the benifit of dragging it back up to altitude to see what was going on.

I think I love you man!

Seriously, maintenance times could probably be cut in half if more pilots squawked info like what you just said. A lot of time is lost in troubleshooting or swapping out parts that don't fix the problems...because we don't know what the actual problem was to begin with.

 

[g4800xp]

WOW, all that for answering a post about how to be an A&P. My comment was that it will help you in your career if you remember that pilots are not mechanics. O.K. not often anyway. And to think you all held your tongues!!. Want my home address so you can come and linch me.I don't think I bashed anyone. Read it again! Good god, I agree with everything you guys said. You are giving a guy career advice, as A&Ps and my self as a pilot point of view.


As I was about to signup at Aerotech to start school to get my A&P long ago, one of my many aviation employed cousins said " become a pilot, it is what you want to do" and I said I have no college, am not the smartest tack in the box, and he said you need to be a hell of a lot smarter to be an A&P than a pilot. I agree with him!!!!! Please dont waste time tearing in to me. I agree with my cousin. I just said listen, with an open mind, and understand we come from different technical backgrounds, I am not an idiot.

Avbug said,Most of them time when a pilot writes up a squawk, it's more along the lines of "Doesn't work." "Inoperative." "Wants to turn left." "Won't turn on." Etc.

So train them to be more specific. Simple. If you are DOM, kickem in the ass and train them as to what is vague and what is helpful. I turn in copious notes, with my cell number attached if there is a question. I hold my DOM and techs in the highest regard. They may call me an idiot behind my back, but I sure don't feel that way about them. When I was in the 3rd service center in 3 cities, in 3 days, MEL'ed, then grounded, a Tech found a loose cannon plug on the deek. The deek that all 3 shops looked at!!! Did I say you bunch of stupid &*#$%^%^%^ grease monkeys. Hell no, it was thanks for looking a little further and fixing the thing. Seat cannon plug/ twist tight. This after all these A&Ps looked at me like I was an idiot at 3 centers. Could not duplicate it cause it looked connected but was not and was close enough to work on the ground but not at rotation.

Do you see where I was going to begin with?

Gatorman said":angryfire
I was going to say something about a previous post. I will just put out my own flames."
"I am better than that, You snott-nose college boy"


Well,
I wrote a double barrelled one for you but then followed you lead and erased it. I am a high school graduate, poor at spelling and have never been given a thing in my life but an opportunity here and there. I begged, borrowed, starved, never stole a thing and made it to the top of the heap using my brains, not some silver spoon or daddys help. I am a self made man. The fact that you type cast me that way says a lot about you. You could not have insulted me in in a greater way.

Read my post again and please tell me how I insulted your profession.

 

[Weasel Keeper]

g4800xp, ease up man. I understand where you're coming from. Some folks just drive the bus...but it definately helps if the bus driver knows his rig a little. There's nothing in the regs that says you have to, but it is good to know. What we have in this topic just may make you a better pilot in the end. No, we haven't helped your flying skills...you have most of us beat there...but maybe we've enlightened you as to how to write up a gripe...which will get your bird flying sooner and better...which makes us ALL look good.

 

[g4800xp]

I could not agree more WK, my only intention was to do the same for a guy looking for thought on becoming a A&P. When dealing with drunks, children wild animals or Pilots, it can only help you to understand where they are coming from. ( insert joke about pilots here). So,,,, understanding a pilot has limited mx experience should help a A&P become a better Tech. That was all I was getting at.

 

[JediNein]

As an A&P and someone that flies airplanes, you might consider not trying to fix the POS airplane in flight. It rarely works. Even troubleshooting is sometimes best left for the ground, especially when it comes to flight control problems.

 

[Mr Wu]

I don't think Avbug is asking you to troubleshoot anything when there is a failure, just give a little more info than "INOP". Years ago, I was a mechanic for a company that flew Saab 340s. One morning one of the planes returned to the hangar with a stick shaker problem. Pilot says "stick shaker went off and we couldn't stop it during taxi." We test the system and it tests good. CND signoff. He taxis away and comes right back. "Happened again." We do the test and it tests good. Supervisor says "change something" so we did. Taxis away again and comes right back. "Same again and I'm not taking it until it's fixed." We pretty much overhaul the stick shaker system and test it and it's good. He accepts the airplane and taxis away, jams on the brakes and whips around back to the hangar. He comes down the steps 3 at a time bitching up a storm. Supe tells me to taxi to the gate with him and see what's happening. He starts up, no problem. Starts taxiing, no problem. Turns on the prop de-ice to test it, stick shaker starts to go off. He says, "See!!". We found a shorted prop lead, replaced it and the problem never came back. Wouldn't it have been nice if the original squawk had mentioned the testing of the prop de-ice?