Situation... Need Advice

[av8tor4239]

Have a situation, and would appreciate some advice from any corportate pilots out there.

I have set up an interview flying a gulfstream for a very wealthy individual... Would be one of 4 pilots on this aircraft...one month on one month off. $80k. Typed right off the bat. I am being recruited from the ranks of FO regional.. and have never met nor do I know the wealthy owner or any of the pilots. kind of a long story how I made the contact... (not relevant)

I start RJ cptn school for a regional in a few days. If I take the gulfstream job I would have to give up 6 years senority at this regional.

My question is...

As a corportate pilot does it sound shady to recruit a regional FO for a international gulfstream job....one that you dont know from adam?

Is there any way to negotiate job security in corporate aviation.

Other than taking someones word, there is no information on this job. It is a weathly owner. Owns the aircraft outright.. Paid cash for it... not associated with any company or business... How would you look at this job?

I was told what the owner does for a living.. Owns a huge financial company.

Thanks

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas Av,

Never flew corporate, but have lots of buds who did...here is my take:

What's your ultimate goal? If it's to fly at SWA, UPS, FDX and so on, then your goal should be to get part 121 turbine time as fast as possible so you can get on a seniority list as fast as possible.

Sounds like you are about to do that with the upgrade at your regional. Part 91 PIC is good, too, but if you go the corporate route, are you going to be an FO, co-captain or what? Remember that the time you log per year will most likely be a lot less, and if you are co-captain, you'll be splitting that in half.

According to my buds, the "individual owner" thing can be unstable and subject to "job stress" from off-the-wall demands from the owner. They say it is VASTLY preferable to get into an established corporate department that is run as a corporate department.

Dunno if I would give up a sure thing, 121 PIC upgrade to chase that unless I was super sure of the type of operation AND I wanted to go the corporate route.

If your goal is a major, I'd say no way, and stay where you are YMMV...

Nu

 

[Bjetset2]

Decisions

One owner operations can be very good or very bad. Find out ALL the detail you can from the other pilots or during the interview. I don't think them recruiting you is unusual, our department is currently seeking to diversify pilot backgrounds during hiring. I doubt if you can negotiate "security" other than an up front contract defining your payout if things go south. And that may hard to do as the new F/O being interviewed. How old is the owner, is the airplane used for personal, business, or both, what is the line of succesion behind him/her and are those people pro-aviation? How long to upgrade? Pay raises can be miserably slow if you are stuck as an F/O for ten years in a corporate operation. Compare benefits including SCHEDULED days off. All important questions to ponder.

I like large, established corporations and even then you can be one CEO or board of directors away from the unemployment line. If things are rosy at your regional financially ,your pay is about to go up alot and you have job security you need to think hard about leaving.

On the other hand corporate is a great way of life but it will be a culture change for you. If you are miserable at the regional in terms of lifestyle then go for it.

 

[nfg2u]

Is this an SIC or a PIC job?

 

[av8tor4239]

I was told I would be typed in the airplane... I was told that I would be able "land" empty legs until I was better known by the owner.

I was told the owner is in his 50's and in good health.. I was told that the operation is about 1 year old.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

Sounds like a bitter sweet opportunity. Corporate flying can be great, but it's hard to quickly build your time if you have aspirations to work for SWA or UPS.

If this Gulfstream job were to fall through in the future, being typed and having time-in-type will open many doors for you in the corporate/charter world. In other words, don't sweat the future.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Stay right where you're at. Get the 1500 PIC Turbine, then go do something else if you want. Don't make a mistake like I did. Tell the guy that you want to be a typed captain and want to seat swap every other leg. If he is not interested in you anymore, what makes you think he's got your best interest at heart. You have to do what's best for you. Oh yeah, make sure you don't have to clean the airplane, wash his car/boat/motorcycle, take the trash out and/or clean the offices/hanger either. You are a pilot, not a maid. Good luck!

CM

 

[Galaxy]

It doesn't sound like you know much about the operation or the people already there. It could be the sweetest job out there-OR it could suck lemons. A month on/off sounds like you will be doing a lot of flying in a month and away from home all the time. Get it all in writing or you could find yourself gear jerker and Jepp revision boy while washing cars, boats, planes and the hangar floor.

Without knowing your career goals it is hard to help you.
Are you interested in flying a legacy airline?
Does corporate even attract you?
You chasing the money?
You chasing the type?
You chasing the QOL?
Advice on FI is worth exactly what you paid for it..

 

[Flyght30]

Sounds Awesome to me....if you don't want it pass it along my way. Thanks

 

[AeroBoy]

Now all we need is some tool to come along and say he'll do it for free...

 

[Diesel]

Would you buy a car before kicking the tires?

Why do they need you? Are they expanding or did the last guy quit?
Owner at 50, good health doesn't matter when he gets hit by a bus, gets a divorce, or just plain sells the plane can give two shiites about you.

To be honest you don't know nearly enough about the situation to even begin to make a decision. Remember a type rating is cheap in the big scheme of things. I'd really start to do some homework. Find out the tail number and do some research into the type of flying it does.

Of course this could be the best job in the world and when you walk up to the owner the first day he might look at you and say, "nope your fired."

I'd even request an interview with the owner or the family of the owner.

Been there done that.

 

[NGT]

There is no security in aviation anywhere!!

You must prearrange a severance if for ANY reason that the job leaves you. 1 year minimum, 2 years better! This guy could die, get divorced, get married to a woman who hates pilots and planes, go to jail, go to Netjet/Flexjet/Options/Tag/Private Air ect.ect.ect......., get killed by an angry investor, and any other of the unlimited reasons these jobs go away. If he can buy this plane then a $160,000 severance is less than he'll pay for wine or a car. Secure a severance or keep looking. Also ask what happens if a pilot get sick. Is it 1 month on and 1 off if all goes well, or is this hard time off. Are there ANY duty guidelines or 91 fun! Good luck it could be the greatest experience ever or the worst career move you could dream of. The best job I ever had was a GIII for a Multimillionaire, until I woke up and he was broke and gone!

 

[av8tor4239]

Thank you everyone for all your advice.. I took it and turned down the interview today.. Everything went well.. I will go ahead with my CRJ upgrade at my regional and see where my career takes me..

Aviation will always facinate me.. the choices sometimes seem so trivial but play such a huge part in the way your life will turn out.

It was a first class opertion from my communication with them.. Jepp view (no revisions)G-III, stage III certified. World-wide (passport mandatory), Part 91 ops, no charter or rent outs-one principal owner. We train and operate with 4 captains, rotating left-right seat. Typically we do 3 weeks on 3 weeks off schedule, no office duty. Recurrent training every 6 months in your 3 week down downtime. We reimburse up to 1K month for health insurance, paid uniforms, cell phones, laptops with Jepp View, and expense account with credit cards to cover trip expenses. First rate in order to provide First Class service.

Good luck to all that helped in my decison..

"we will only know when we turn 60 if we made the right decisions"

 

[Lopaka]

So this guy and his G__ has been around for one year? No planes prior? Not too common an owner starting out with a Gulfstream in my opinion. So it could be a really good thing, or a really bad thing.

You've got to decide what your goals are. Corporate is obviously very different than what you are doing now, but also more fun.
So you're upgrading and you'll be on 6yr capt pay getting PIC. Are you happy where you are? Would you like living where the G is based? You've never met the other 3 pilots or the owner. Being that you will practically be living with them you might want to see if you guys get along.
Job security would be a big issue being such a small flt dept. That guy and his plane can go faster than he came.

They say one month on/ one off? So with 4 pilots that leaves two always on and two always off to crew the plane. I don't know how much flying they do but where is the backup? The relief? What happens when someone is sick?

Doesn't sound like you know enough about the job to make a good decision yet, but so far I wouldn't go.

 

[Lopaka]

double post...

 

[Charlie Brown]

FWIW, I think you probably made the right choice. Time will tell. Either way it sounds like you have a good attitude about it.

Regards,
CB

 

[Raskal]

Wow...I'm sorry, but I disagree. As one who knows corporate very well, the experience and the quality of lifestyle the OP just turned down for a, what, 50-60k regional capt. job is pretty heavy. How long would you have to stay at your "secure" regional to make 80k, another 5 years? This job sounds like an excellent 91 gig. As for securtiy, does anyone really think a regional is more secure? If so, I have about 13 friends I'd love to introduce you to.

A G type goes a looonnnng way in the 91/135 world, whether it be contract all the way to a one-owner capt.

I don't know, this sounded solid enough, I mean, 3wks on 3 off? How does that compare to your avg regional sched? Especially as a jr. captain?

 

[Galaxy]

Sheesh! Hush Raskal! The guy loves his airline and how sweet is that. Don't go goving away the corp secret...Just tell them it sucks lemons.

 

[Raskal]

Sheesh! Hush Raskal! The guy loves his airline and how sweet is that. Don't go goving away the corp secret...Just tell them it sucks lemons.

LOL :0 , you're right...I have a soft spot for the regional guys-I've seen friends work so hard to get ahead and be dissapointed. Those guys really get treated pretty poorly and many have no idea what's out there.

Either way, best of luck to the OP-hope you'll have a good career.

 

[hawkerjet]

My question is how did you get recruited. Do you know someone there, send a resume in, answer a job posting, how did they know to approach you. If they came out of the blue and approached you for a corporate gig, I'd be very leary, it works the other way around. Most stable corporate jobs are mired in secrecy and have companies that search and conduct background checks and also do most of the interviews. Think about this; are they going to hire you, someone they don't even know much about and type rate you and let you fly the boss around. Would you do that if you were hiring someone. I know I wouldn't. And I am not attacking your professionalism or skills as a pilot, I am trying to share with you what a good flight department would do for a pilot's position. One of the most difficult decisions a department manager can make is hiring the right pilot. That's why so many referrals are usually involved, it takes some of the pressure off and helps you look into someone you've never met. If you've never met the person and don't have anyone at the company that knows him, the only thing you have at first is a resume. if that's all they have , be careful. The process should start with a resume, then continue to background checks, tests, and at minimum 2 interviews, and employment checks and letters from current and past people you've flown with. It takes a while to sift through all this if done correctly, especially tracking down referrences. Do ya see where Im going with this. If this or a good portion of what's stated here isn't happenning, approach with caution. If this is his first jet and it's a Gulfstream then that brings up a red flag to me already. It can be done but it's very uncommon. Most people have started out smaller and grown into one after a couple years. Seeing that they've been around for a year alleviates some of that but still proceed with caution.
You'll never gain the necessary PIC time you'll need to get into the legacy carriers as fast as in the regionals
Good Luck!