SIOUX (anti-GJ rally)

[redbook]

I know you probably know more than I do, but you have to agree that ALPA and your MEC dropped the ball, both with the poorly drafted contract and not figuring out a way to keep the flying on one seniority list.

I don't doubt the TSH mgmt planned to screw you guys, but you did have a chance to have one list. I know you turned it down because it was a lousy deal, but get the flying and then argue about pay rates later.

Why would TSH have offered the TSA pilot group the flying and put it up for a vote if they had other plans all along. They didn't have to do that. They could have just gone and start carrier number two without giving you guys the option.

In any event, even if some of the original management pilots that moved over to GJ were in collusion with TSH and their nefarious plans, the new guys taking a job there now had nothing to do with this and you can't expect them to fight your war.

TSH offered the g0jet flying in exchange for a four year contract extension.

Our contract had already been extended for two years previously. It was a substandard or charitably speaking, barely standard contract when it was first negotiated, as a four year contract.

If we had taken the deal offered, the substandard four year contract would have become a ten year contract. (original 4 year + 2 year extension + 4 year extension)And then the company would have found a way to make it a 12 year or 14 year contract. So it wasn't as simple as "get the flying and worry about the pay rates later."

You are right; ALPA failed us. The original two year extension was signed without tightening scope language. Hindsight.

I am still not sure why you think tsa pilots should turn a blind eye to g0jet pilots.

 

[redbook]

It wasn't just about pay rates. You should familiarize yourself with their proposal before commenting. The proposal would have given the GJ guys furlough protection as well as other items that kept this from truely being a combined list. This was not managements good will offer to their beloved pilots, it was executing what GJ was implemented to do, harm labor. The people who have and will go to GJ are enablers of TSA management and are complicit in their actions. They are just as bad as management and are actively pursuing jobs that are positioned to harm not only TSA but other regional pilots as well. They are not innocent pawns, they knew what they were getting into and made the decision to be a part of managements plans. We don't expect them to help us fight the war, they have already positioned themselves on the side of the enemy.

Thank you TSA ERJ, well said.

 

[temcgrew]

I don't doubt the TSH mgmt planned to screw you guys, but you did have a chance to have one list. I know you turned it down because it was a lousy deal, but get the flying and then argue about pay rates later.

Why would TSH have offered the TSA pilot group the flying and put it up for a vote if they had other plans all along. They didn't have to do that. They could have just gone and start carrier number two without giving you guys the option.

Have you JUST NOW heard about this situation?

Of course TSH set out to keep the company seperate!!! It's simple and the CP was overheard saying that there is no way this pilot group will vote in favor of this contract. They gave us a crappy contract and then were worried that we would vote it in. They know the MEC very well, and sent a crappy contract for the express reason of it fail.

I thought the same thing when you said "get the flying then worry about pay later", but now I see that if we would have done that, we would have been every regional airlines enemy and instigating the "race to the bottom".

 

[temcgrew]

If you don't mind my asking, what the hell are you still doing there?

Instead of posting this TSA/GJ nonsense you should be filling out apps and moving on. Just a thought.

There you go again about the "move on" crap. Is that all it takes, to just fill out apps and move on? Wow, have I missed that one!!!

 

[waterski_heavy]

Have you JUST NOW heard about this situation?

Of course TSH set out to keep the company seperate!!! It's simple and the CP was overheard saying that there is no way this pilot group will vote in favor of this contract. They gave us a crappy contract and then were worried that we would vote it in. They know the MEC very well, and sent a crappy contract for the express reason of it fail.

I thought the same thing when you said "get the flying then worry about pay later", but now I see that if we would have done that, we would have been every regional airlines enemy and instigating the "race to the bottom".

Nobody at GJ wants to hurt anyone at tsa....we were all pulling for you to get the contract that continental offered...we are mature enough to realize that the us versus them attitude is what has put the aviation industry in the hurt it is.....as far as our contract negotiations.....you name another airline that I could go to and make 56 dollars an hour after being employed by three months.....I have spent many a night murking around in lousy equipment delivering checks all over the country and have finely honed my flying skills and am taking an opportunity that presented itself. I cant help that tsa pilots didnt see this as a great chance for them and decided to stay where right where they are at.....if you are unhappy than do something about it....i quit the last miserable job that i had before I had a job to go to but that is just me.....if i dont like something, than i move on....it is a lot easier than being a miserable person......I suggest you do the same. Go bag some groceries that is probably where you belong instead of spreading your misery all over this website......by the way....you wont hurt my career one bit because miserable people dont have any power.

 

[temcgrew]

you name another airline that I could go to and make 56 dollars an hour after being employed by three months

CLASSIC!! At TSA it takes about 3-4 years!! I don't need to say anything else, you guys have dug your grave and with comments like that are just making it deeper.

......I suggest you do the same. Go bag some groceries that is probably where you belong instead of spreading your misery all over this website......by the way....you wont hurt my career one bit because miserable people dont have any power.

What motivational speaker said that? 56 dollars an hour and you are able to go to seminars? I'm not worried about you guys at G0jet, TSH will take care of you.

 

[jetfo]

If you do not work at G0JET then why are you defending them so much and putting down all of the TSA pilots who are upset with good cause?

I am not trying to put down TSA pilots. I know you guys got screwed. My only point is that your jumpseat actions and GJ pilot bashing and intimidation by a few on this board are misdirected and unprofessional.

Ultimately, TSH management did this to you and it sucks. As far as moving on, I know it doesn't seem like it, but things will go forward again and more and more regional guys will move to the majors again and that's what I would focus on if I were at your or any other regional.

Good Luck to all of you guys at TSA!

 

[temcgrew]

I am not trying to put down TSA pilots. I know you guys got screwed. My only point is that your jumpseat actions and GJ pilot bashing and intimidation by a few on this board are misdirected and unprofessional.

There really wasn't a "jumpseat war" like you think. There were, unfortunately, a few crews who tried to deny some g0jet guys a seat on a TSA flight. The G0jet guys were riding on a company pass and the crews were dealt with by management. Nobody is forcing any other crew at any other airline to deny a jumpseat, so if it happens outside of TSA, it is simply out of the kindness of their hearts to support us.

Ultimately, TSH management did this to you and it sucks. As far as moving on, I know it doesn't seem like it, but things will go forward again and more and more regional guys will move to the majors again and that's what I would focus on if I were at your or any other regional.

I agree with you, but when seniority is everything in the airlines, and we all want to move on and obtain a seniority number at LUV, CAL, JBLUE, AIRTRAN, B9 etc....don't you think its a bit frustrating when someone takes a job at a company that was started like g0jet was and then say "where else can you make 56 buck and hour in 3 months?" It slows down guys from getting PIC time and making more money while waiting for that "dream job" that may or may not come to them. As far as I'm concerned, this whole deal has kept me from making more money at TSA. (notice that I didn't say..."they took money out of my pocket".)


Thanks for your kind words.

 

[jetfo]

TSH offered the g0jet flying in exchange for a four year contract extension.

Our contract had already been extended for two years previously. It was a substandard or charitably speaking, barely standard contract when it was first negotiated, as a four year contract.

If we had taken the deal offered, the substandard four year contract would have become a ten year contract. (original 4 year + 2 year extension + 4 year extension)And then the company would have found a way to make it a 12 year or 14 year contract. So it wasn't as simple as "get the flying and worry about the pay rates later."

You are right; ALPA failed us. The original two year extension was signed without tightening scope language. Hindsight.

I am still not sure why you think tsa pilots should turn a blind eye to g0jet pilots.

Ok, thanks, that's more information than I had before. I still wish you guys would have gotten the flying! I don't know exactly how bad it would have been and what COLA or other increased were built into your contract, and if that would have been less of a problem with more chances of advancement had you gotten the flying.

I guess I can understand how you may dislike GJ pilots, but I still think you are misdirecting your frustration. It is ultimately TSH management, along with poor contract language which let them get away with it, that is to blame.

Regardless, best of luck!

 

[temcgrew]

I am still not sure why you think tsa pilots should turn a blind eye to g0jet pilots.

This is why we shouldn't!

you name another airline that I could go to and make 56 dollars an hour after being employed by three months.....

This is why Waterski Heavy went to g0jet.