Single Pilot CE-500

[HawkerF/O]

I don't see a problem with flying a C-500 series single pilot at all, and I do it, very rarely (in a 501).

BullSh*T you fly a Citation, Getonit. Your profile does not reflect that.

getonit vbmenu_register("postmenu_487442", true);
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 82

Aircraft Experience: C-152, C-172, C-208, PA32, SA-226/227
Flight Experience: Civilian
Ratings: ATP, CFII
Total Time: 2500

The reasons those things come out of your mouth is because you are a CFI running around in singles still. Go find another venue for your tales.

 

[G100driver]

I fly with a bunch of different $18,000/year "copilots", our company is cheap also. And it is more work for me to teach them all of the calls, procedures, etc, every time because they only fly with in the jet every 3-4 months. They don't know the airplane, systems, or flying into busy airspace, basically they are seat warmers mainly because the people in back want 2 crew, even though the second person really isn't there for much.

I have a crazy idea ... how about TRAINING them and actually letting them fly every other leg on a regular basis.

Perhaps only the folks who are qualified should reply

It looks everyone here is an ATP and is a professional pilot ... looks like we are qualified.

 

[FlierDude]

.

It looks everyone here is an ATP and is a professional pilot ... looks like we are qualified.

I disagree. The question is about Citation single-pilot ops. Being an ATP, an A&P or a Sport Pilot doesn't make one qualified to comment IMHO. It's a unique situation, and only those who have been there (of which I are one ) can give an accurate reply.

I wouldn't presume to tell another aviator how to operate an aircraft in which I have no experience. Maybe that makes me the exception?

.

 

[FlierDude]

I have a crazy idea ... how about TRAINING them and actually letting them fly every other leg on a regular basis.

Not to pick on ya, but it's hard to do when it's a new face every coupla weeks.

 

[jumper52]

CE500 Type Rating

First of all, it's not like all other type ratings. You have to consider if the aircraft is certificated Part 23 or 25. And then other stipulations come into play. Exemption letter exists to fly single pilot under Part 25 I believe. And then certain equipment has to be installed to fly single pilot.
Be careful, situations out there can get you in deep doo doo!!! Check with FSDO office before you decide to fly a Citation single pilot, when it has been certificated for a two pilot crew. It will bite you!

Cheers

 

[HMR]

These SIC's would stick around longer if they were properly paid/trained.

 

[getonit]

Hawker F/O,
you are a d!ckhead. I have better things to do than update my profile on the internet. But since you really want to know. I now have 3300 hours, Citation type rating, fly as PIC on a I and V as well as a King Air. Does that make you feel any better.

 

[beernuts]

Hey Hawker, I don't understand what you are so upset about. I was just trying to ask a question. I do not fly single pilot. You should be able to tell by my question I am not currently qualified to fly a Citation alone. I simply wanted to know if there was any minimum time requirements and who offered the training.
I agree that as long as the copilot has any clue about flying and the airplane it's better than flying it alone. However I also can understand where it can be worse having a clueless FO than just flying alone. I'd rather know that I have to do all the tasks myself than call for things and get a "what, where is that at?" as time is wasting and my attention is divided.
I am not looking at flying a Citation single pilot for a job (or any other plane except a skyhawk for personal trips) If I get a trip in the plane I fly with a copilot PERIOD. If you don't like that then find someone else to fly your plane. That does not mean I can't look at getting a limitation off my certificate. It would be the same if I went to an airline and had a circling in VMC only limitation. I'd look into the possibility of having it removed.
It is more of a resume thing for me than a job requirement. Some day I will fly a seplane ...some day.... and when I finally do I will take the checkride at the ATP level. Is there a need to, no. But why not do things to the best of my abilities? For that matter I probably would never need to add any new categories or classes beyond private level, but does that mean I have to stop there?

 

[G100driver]

Not to pick on ya, but it's hard to do when it's a new face every coupla weeks.

No worries, dude, you are not picking on me. Instead of a new face every week, how about the same one every week

If you are constantly retraining people then perhaps they need an insentive to stay.

 

[HawkerF/O]

Hawker F/O,
you are a d!ckhead. I have better things to do than update my profile on the internet. But since you really want to know. I now have 3300 hours, Citation type rating, fly as PIC on a I and V as well as a King Air. Does that make you feel any better.

Ummmmmm, let me think..................No

 

[G100driver]

.

I disagree. The question is about Citation single-pilot ops. Being an ATP, an A&P or a Sport Pilot doesn't make one qualified to comment IMHO. It's a unique situation, and only those who have been there (of which I are one ) can give an accurate reply.

I wouldn't presume to tell another aviator how to operate an aircraft in which I have no experience. Maybe that makes me the exception?

.

Not disagree for disagreement sake, but I disagree. We can all bring up the subject of safety and marginal operations. The only reason one flies single pilot is because the owner is a tightwad or the CP has a massive ego. Either one makes for a maginal operation.

 

[OviedoBob]

Hey Beernuts:

I'm somewhat like you. Several years ago I got my ATP single engine seaplane rating in a fully equipped Maule in FL. A couple of years later I went to a seaplane operation in Flagler County Airport in FL and got my ME ATP seaplane rating in a Twin Bee (one of those ugly Republic aircraft). I had no reason to get a ATP in both classes of aircraft, other than the fact I wanted to. It was fun, lots of work under the hood, and a sense of accomplishment. I did both events while doing a vacation in FL!

Floats (down and locked)!

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

SP in the 550's is not a big deal, they are very tame airplanes as long as the PIC has some good experience. Not that an extra pair of eyes are not always useful, but to be honest, if you cannot fly a 550 single pilot IFR, you don't have any business in any light twin single pilot IFR either. I will take an engine failure in the 550 any day of the week over a failure in a light twin.

Lets face it, the 550 is not a speed demon and has never been mistaken for a real jet. It does what it was intended to do, move people at near jet speeds and still get into a short strip, while operating at near turbo-prop costs.

 

[beernuts]

Can't remember where, how, and what is required to remove the SIC required limitation on the CE-500. Could someone help me out with this please. I'd like to do this if I can with recurrent.

Ok I don't remember asking anything about the sanity, safety, sensibility, or any other things like that. I am just looking for the where, how and what, NOT WHY. If you can't respectfully respond to these few questions please save the bandwidth and just read the posts.

FYI: I would have no problems with the FAA saying any plane requiring a type rating also requires a qualified and typed copilot.
At the same time how many are complaining about the phase out of flight engineers and flight navigators?
Some day the most any of us do will be to ride as passengers or fly on Microsoft

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Alright to try and answer your question.

All the 500's 550's and 560's except for the XL can be flown with the C-500 type. this type is good for 7 airplanes (8 if you count a varient that only includes about 3 hulls)

There is no SIC required type restriction for the 500 series(that I am aware of, doesn't mean it hasn't been issued in the past), you are probably thinking of the 525 series (The CJ, CJ1, CJ2) it has a SP type and a crew type avaliable, But is officially certified as a single pilot airplane on its type certificate.

All the 500 series (Except the XL) can be flown SP. The difference is how you go about it. Some of the 500's are certified as SP, and do not require any special training, some are certified as two pilot birds and require a waiver to fly it SP. Confused yet....it gets worse.

The 550 and 560 series may be flown SP providing you take the SP waiver training and checkride, which must be renewed every twelve months. There is a varient of the 550 that does not require this waiver, however the varient does take a considerable weight penalty. (down to 12,500 MTOW) I do not remember the designator for this varient, but as I understand it, only a very few remain in operation, most have been converted back into the standard 550 since the waiver is avalible. (The conversion is mainly paperwork only and simply resets the max weights for the plane)

Still following me....don't worry heres more to confuse you.

The 550 and 560 SP waivers are Aircraft specific. For example, I am waivered to fly the Citation 550 Bravo Single pilot, however I am NOT legal to fly a Citation 560 Encore Single pilot or Citation II 550, even though it they are almost identical to the bravo. I am legal to serve as PIC in ANY Citation 500 series provided I have a First Officer.

The 560 Excel was originally intended to be single pilot waivable also, but got the axe due to the difficulty of seeing the right wing tip during taxi from the left seat.

The initial SP checkride must be taken in the aircraft, any recertification can be done in the sim only. Flight safety and Simuflite both offer SP training as well as several other training sites, however FS and Simuflite is the only two that some insurance companies will accept.

Clear as mud right!!!

Hope this answers your question.

KS