Single Pilot CE-500

[beernuts]

Finally an answer not just b*tch*ng. THANK YOU. I do have a SIC required limitation on my cert. The examiner said it was because without it I'd be legal to fly the 501 and 551 single pilot and haven't demonstrated single pilot proficiency and because the 500 I did the training and checkride in had the waiver you spoke of so technically it was legal to fly single pilot if the pilot was qualified. (though I don't remember them specifing how to be qualified to do so)
Basically as my first (and only) type rating this part of the "fire hose" was used for cooling off not drinking out of so to speak.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

You may want to give FS a call, During my training and recurrents I have not run across a senario that would limit me on the 501 and 551. According to what I have been told and read, you should be legal to fly the 501 and 551 SP without any further training, that is the whole point of having the airplanes certified SP. The 525's have different types though. Maybe the examiner was confusing the two.

My initial type in the 500 series also included doing the SP waiver training so maybe since I was doing that, they may have made no mention of the restriction. However as far as I know there is no reason for you to have that restriction on your type.

Any how as I said above, I would call FS and chat with their Citation instructors and examiner. In ICT a guy named Tim Thorpe runs the 500 department and is an examiner. It is possible that the DE you had didn't know all the rules on it (or I don't!!) For what its worth, there are FAA guys out there that have no idea that there is an SP waiver avalible for the 550's. I had one approach me one day all bursting with excitement since he thought he was going to get to bust me for flying around without an F/O. All examiners are not created equal.

 

[some_dude]

If you did not demonstrate single pilot proficiency on your initial type rating checkride, you may (or do) have a limitation on your license. When I did my CE-500 type rating in a CE-501, back in, I think 1989, the examiner required me to do the entire checkride single pilot or have the limitation. Now, I believe they only require you to "demonstrate single pilot proficiency" which can be a takeoff, engine failure, and an approach.

Now, what to do about it? I would call FSI or Simuflite or wherever you train, ask to speak to the program manager, and ask them. I assume they should be able to test you on single pilot proficiency on your next checkride and remove the limitation.

However, given they are 142 and have to have an approved training program for everything, it may be more difficult than it would appear.

The CE-500 type rating is a mess, because the FAA had not really thought out the single pilot thing at the time. I believe (I could be wrong) that if you take your type check in a CE-550 (2 pilots required), you will get an unrestricted CE-500 type rating. If you take your type check in a CE-551 (1 pilot required) and do not demonstrate single pilot proficiency, you get a type rating with a restriction. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? (haha)

 

[FlierDude]

During my training and recurrents I have not run across a senario that would limit me on the 501 and 551.

It even varies by training establishment and the local Feds. When I got typed in the 500 series, I had lots of time in it and had been to FSI initial a few years prior. At Simcom, the instructor couldn't promise an SP ride due to it being an initial type and their agreement with their FSDO. After a month, he came to our home airport and gave a quick ride and sign-off.
With the training establishments I've talked to, they all seem to agree that the SP waiver on an initial type ride is the exception. If you have previous types, you can get it no problem.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

It even varies by training establishment and the local Feds. When I got typed in the 500 series, I had lots of time in it and had been to FSI initial a few years prior. At Simcom, the instructor couldn't promise an SP ride due to it being an initial type and their agreement with their FSDO. After a month, he came to our home airport and gave a quick ride and sign-off.
With the training establishments I've talked to, they all seem to agree that the SP waiver on an initial type ride is the exception. If you have previous types, you can get it no problem.

When I did my initial with FS, they did have some minimum requirements for both the type and the SP, (over and above the FAA SP requirements) I do not know exactly what they were since I exceeded all of the minimums by a large amount, however my Sim Partner was a low time guy (about 800 hours) and FS refused to give him the type even though he clearly had the skills to pass the checkride and was going to serve as SIC only in his company). The instructor and examiner tried to get FS to let him get the type, but upper managment would not go for it.

As flier said, alot of it has to do with the controlling FSDO and the training departments agreement with them.

Again I would recommend calling FS in Wichita. They seem to be the ones most closely associated with the factory(across the field from the Citation assembly line) and seem to be the most up to date on Citation certification and training.