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Sim time as PIC time??

mudkow60

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Quick question...


Can military flight simulater time be counted for PIC time?

Thanks.
 

Rogue5

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I can't imagine mil SIMs are any different than civil level-D SIMS, for which the answer is no.

Its not even flight time, so how could it be PIC?
 

paulsalem

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I though you could log level D as flight time.

On that note: If a 141 Instrument Syllabus has PCATD time required, should that be logged in the students PERSONAL log book?
 

Snoopy58

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It's your logbook, so you can write anything you want in it. No reason not to put sim rides in there, since they are good for a few things, like approach currency. I'll let the legal beagles speak to the legality of counting sim time on FAA applications (i.e. toward hours requirements for an ATP), but I strongly doubt that any airline cares one whit how much sim time you have. They want to know FLIGHT time, and they routinely specify different counting rules than the FAA does ("logged" as PIC vs "acting" as PIC, for instance).

So, go ahead & put the sim in your logbook. But I wouldn't recommend listing it as anything besides "simulator," since you'll probably need to back it out later anyway.
 

paulsalem

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So if your logging landings for currency (most likley night currency) you log simulator and landings? But not in Total Time?
 

viper548

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Log Simulator time, landings if sim landings count, approaches. Do not log Total time, Multi (or single) Engine, PIC or SIC, night, Cross country, etc.
 

midlifeflyer

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paulsalem said:
I though you could log level D as flight time.
So far, I never heard of a sim that is an aircraft, "a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air."
 

paulsalem

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Thanks for the info.

What about the 141 PCATD time? Does that need to be logged in the students personal log book? If so, do you log the approaches too?
 

AirBP

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I believe "approved" sim time may be logged...as sim time. Depending on the level of the sim, it may count towards: IFR currency, ie approaches and time, and if it is a level C or D sim (full motion and integrated visuals) it would count towards currency/re-currancy for landings as well. However, a sim is NOT an aircraft and there is no such thing as PIC sim time. And it does NOT count towards total time ever.

You may log the time if you want it to count for currency, or not as you wish. Just make sure it is approved for such logging of time.

I was a 141 Chief Instructor once upon a time and used a procedures trainer extensively for instrument students, its a valuable tool, but not an airplane. I was also once upon a time a 121 Check-airman using approved level C and D sims, again a very valuable tool, but not an airplane.
 

midlifeflyer

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paulsalem said:
What about the 141 PCATD time? Does that need to be logged in the students personal log book? If so, do you log the approaches too?
Whether you log something at all is a very different question than what column you put it in. Doesn't matter if it's Part 141 or Part 61.

If you are going to use something toward the requirements for certificates, ratings or currency, it has to be logged. That's pretty much the most basic bottom line rule of logging.
 

Checks

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The only way you can log sim time as flight time is if one of those hurricanes rips the sim right out of the ground and throws the thing in the air.

Side Note: You would have to be in it during said hurricane
 

JAFI

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Checks said:
The only way you can log sim time as flight time is if one of those hurricanes rips the sim right out of the ground and throws the thing in the air.

Side Note: You would have to be in it during said hurricane

Well.... Not quite. I do applaud you on thinking in the right direction or at least "out side of the box" --- sorry, I just could not help my self....

Part 61.51 discribes PIC time in "an Aircraft". In this case, you can not consider a simulator "an Aircraft" to satisfy 61.51.

JAFI



61.51 (e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;

 

wrxpilot

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midlifeflyer said:
Whether you log something at all is a very different question than what column you put it in. Doesn't matter if it's Part 141 or Part 61.

If you are going to use something toward the requirements for certificates, ratings or currency, it has to be logged. That's pretty much the most basic bottom line rule of logging.

Sorry Mark, I'm a little slow here. So if I logged sim time for my inst rating, would it be dual/PIC? Or would it be dual/sim and still be applicable to my commercial requirement of 250 hrs?
 

midlifeflyer

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It would be dual and sim. Never PIC (as a number of folks already pointed out, even with the FAA's sometimes incomprehensible rules about logging, there's no such thing as pilot in command of a virtual airplane that you can run into the side of a mountain without getting hurt).

So if I logged sim time for my inst rating, would it be dual/PIC? Or would it be dual/sim and still be applicable to my commercial requirement of 250 hrs?
That is an excellent question! There's a some hokey discussions in the Part 61 FAQ about double counting stuff that can make you want to scream, but, FWIW, my answer is that

if

(a) the sim qualifies for both uses (remember that the sim for the instrument rating needs only to be category-specific but the sim for the commercial needs to be category/class specific); and

(b) the training time in the sim covers areas of operation that apply to both the instrument rating and the commercial certificate

then sure, the instrument sim time that was countable for 61.65(e) purposes would be countable to the "Permitted credit for use of a flight simulator or flight training device" in 61.129(i).
 
Last edited:

Checks

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When that sim is hurtling across Mississippi at 60kts I would say it is an Airplane!
 
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