Shutting off the Fuel In a Senecca Redux

[pilotman2105]

I'm considering some multi training in the near future. Do not have any as of yet. So while I do not know that much about it, single engine training seems to be fairly simple (perhaps my naivity on the subject is showing?). But honestly, when practicing it, why kill a perfectly good engine at an altitude where it could possibly be unsafe? I understand that above x feet AGL you should kill the engine for real just to understand the difference between real and similuated conditions (kinda like actual IMC versus similuated). But doing a simulated engine failure for real in the pattern is like simulating emergency gear extensions by ripping the gear handle off of the dash. Completely stupid.

Anyway, the CFI and student in that situation are much more wiser for their actions. What doesn't kill a pilot will at least make them smarter. At least we can hope...

 

[Timebuilder]

There's some rich kid that just bought a Duchess that parks on our ramp. He likes to tell stories about how he likes to do single engine patterns with an engine shut down. He's working on his MEI and on our first (and last) flight together we climbing about 50 FPM at blue line. He decided to pitch up, make right traffic in a busy left pattern, and of course bank into the dead engine. He pitched up until I heard the stall horn and the plane started to roll. At that point, I saw enough and took the controls.

After all of this he still wanted to shut down an engine in the pattern. I informed him I would not sign him off to go out and kill someone, yet alone fly with him again. He thought I was a "wimp" because I only shut off the gas above 3,000'.

I'd probably be asking some questions about this guy, like who taught him, and who he intends to go to for his MEI ride.

Just a thought.

 

[EDUC8-or]

I'd probably be asking some questions about this guy, like who taught him, and who he intends to go to for his MEI ride.

Thanks for the suggestions. I spoke to our chief pilot about it. This guy (for obvious reasons) is not allowed to fly any of our aircraft. As of right now he can't find anyone to give him instruction in his aircraft because we've spread the word that he's dangerous. We don't know who trained him, he learned how to fly in another part of the country. I'm sure he'll eventually find someone who is desparate that will fly with him, and we'll have to have a nice chat as well as one with the DE for his ride.

 

[Cat Driver]

I find these discussions on how to train multi engine pilots interesting.

I personally do not believe in creating an emergency when none exists.

Can someone tell me what advantage there is in fully feathering an engine vs setting zero thrust?

And what do all you instructors do when the temperatures are below freezing in the winter?

Cat Driver:

 

[Timebuilder]

Thanks for the suggestions. I spoke to our chief pilot about it. This guy (for obvious reasons) is not allowed to fly any of our aircraft. As of right now he can't find anyone to give him instruction in his aircraft because we've spread the word that he's dangerous. We don't know who trained him, he learned how to fly in another part of the country. I'm sure he'll eventually find someone who is desparate that will fly with him, and we'll have to have a nice chat as well as one with the DE for his ride.

I'm glad to hear that.

Normally, I think we should let idiots cull themselves out of the gene pool, but in doing so this guy could hurt innocent people and hurt aviation, too.

I'd rather see a dangerous pilot in the tie down than in the sky.

 

[avbug]

With respect to shutting engines down in the winter...I'll do it, but it's going to be a long warm up again at idle or close to it...which equates to a lot of flying around unnecessarily while it warms up. That time can be taken up with other activities like hold entries, etc while the engine is warming...but I won't shut one down and then fire it up and go.

If it's a single engine approach in a piston airplane, we're landing. We'll taxi back and warm it back up again, but we're not going around on that engine and hitting it with power after it's been flown around and cooled. Regardless of how the failure was simulated.

With respect to feathering, I don't know that feathering it every time is necessary. But a student should have the experience of feathering the engine and bringing it back out of feather...and enough experience that a student is comfortable doing it himself or herself.

Otherwise, there are obvious safety advantages to rudder bocking and setting zero thrust, where the engine may be used if necessary. Hard to do that when it's feathered.