Shoulder-fired missiles

[PilotoHalcon]

For one thing the terrorists would not buy weapons legally so checking firearms purchases would be a moot point. Think about that for a minute. Besides I do not want everyone knowing what weapons I own. (think “Red Dawn”) And I was a cop once before “profiling" was an ugly word. It works. But it can be abused. But like I mentioned in several previous posts we are trying to be politically correct so we have taken away a valuable tool. Lets check thoroughly a older lady in a wheel chair or a uniformed airline pilot and let go a 18-25 aged male of Mediterranean decent because we do not want to offend anyone. Think about THAT.
j

 

[Brother Francis]

When in danger, when in doubt: run in circles, scream and shout.

Until the countermeasures are installed on your aircraft, you have a choice: You can look the threat in the eye and push the throttles up, or you can avert your eyes and slink away to a place where the boogey-man won't find you.

The red stripes on the Flag of the United States of America symbolize the blood of the patriots who have died defending her freedom. If an enemy of your country decides it is your butt into which he wants to shove the black market heater, then your blood is added to that place of honor and the Flag you died defending will fly at half staff in your honor as it has for your thousands of predecessors.

Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is the ability to do what needs to be done despite the fear.

 

[VFR on Top]

It's all a question of odds. If a SA-7 hits a 747 in the number four engine, it could probably fly around like that all day. If the same missile hit my airplane (CRJ-200) in the APU, it'd probably blow the tail off.

We're not talking SA-7s or other serious surface-to-air missiles, but shoulder-fired weapons. One would certainly FOD out an engine, and maybe even blow it off its mounts, but I don't think it'd bring a CRJ down by itself.

 

[EagleRJ]

Boy, would the terrorists love to see us put the whole nation in a state of lockdown! Body cavity searches for every airline passenger, ban privacy, and repeal the Bill of Rights. They would be laughing their a$$es off, and they'd still be getting into the country.

The only way to fight this war is to take the fight to the enemy. These various terrorist groups seem to think that by attacking us, they can get us to bow to their wish (stop supporting Israel). What they have done is begin a process that cannot be stopped, and will ultimitely result in the destruction of their groups, and most likely their cause along with it. Any kind of capitulation would be disasterous, and would establish terrorism as a new form of diplomacy with which countries can work out their differences.

We can't spend billions addressing specific threats we percieve from terrorists groups. There are thousands of ways they could cause mass casualties, and we could never hope to secure them all and still have any semblance of a free democracy. If they shoot down another one of our airliners, there will be consequences abroad, and they will be severe. Keep in mind that our homeland was attacked with weapons of mass destruction, but we have not yet retaliated in kind. In my opinion, if the situation presents itself, the nuclear option remains open.

As for what to do if you see a missile launched at you, you can do what the military teaches their pilots to do. Immediately roll into the missile and pull back until your flight path is tangent to the missile's. At the same time, go to max power and try to build as much speed as you can. If you have the altitude, you can roll more than 90 degrees and pull to bring the nose below the horizon. That will let you build speed faster, and will mask the ACM exhaust ports on your belly to reduce your heat signature. By placing your flight path tangent to the missile's flight path, you will be forcing it to make as sharp a turn as possible to track you, maximizing the chance it will pass behind you.

We're not going to equip all of our airliners with flares or spoofing systems. There are a lot of MANPADS out there in the world, but only a handfull are in the hands of terrorists. Target the terrorist before you waste time trying to defend against his weapon!

 

[mar]

Oh please, get a grip

"Evasive manuevers 101" offered by flightinfo.com University...

Anybody read the account of the near-shoot down in Kenya?

It went something like this:

"V1....Rotate....V2....Positive rate...Gear Up....


--WHOOSH--

"What the, huh?"

These guys are standing across the street from the airport.

Re: Foreign policy. I knew somebody would answer with the very tired, "If we bend to their wishes then they have won" tripe.

C'mon. I ain't talking about cancelling your vacation to DisneyWorld. I'm talking about a seriously flawed long-term foreign policy position that has truly alienated this nation in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Look at the cost! Direct and Indirect.

Open your eyes and see it like the rest of the world.

It ain't Cowboys and Indians anymore.

 

[Rush Limbaugh]

"We're not talking SA-7s or other serious surface-to-air missiles, but shoulder-fired weapons"

VFR on Top, an SA-7 is a MANPAD. You may be thinking of the SA-6 or SA-8 which are both more "serious" than a MANPAD.

"As for what to do if you see a missile launched at you, you can do what the military teaches their pilots to do. Immediately roll into the missile and pull back until your flight path is tangent to the missile's. At the same time, go to max power and try to build as much speed as you can. If you have the altitude, you can roll more than 90 degrees and pull to bring the nose below the horizon. That will let you build speed faster, and will mask the ACM exhaust ports on your belly to reduce your heat signature. By placing your flight path tangent to the missile's flight path, you will be forcing it to make as sharp a turn as possible to track you, maximizing the chance it will pass behind you."

Eagle RJ, where did you pick up that bit of information? While it's entertaining reading, it isn't exactly a good defense for an airliner. If you see a MANPAD launch, you will have enough time to say "Oh my God is that a missile lau...." The best thing for an airliner to do is nothing. If the missile hits, keep the airplane in the air and handle any failures you may have. If you try your MANPAD threat reaction, you'll be getting a left fire light just before you hit the ground. You will have put your jet in an unrecoverable situation for no reason.

My (uneducated) guess is that if terrorists start shooting at US airliners, the pilots will hear about it from ATC or they'll find out when they land at their destination. Don't worry about the threat. If it happens to you and the missile hits the airplane, you'll land and return home a hero, and then the Today Show, Leno, Letterman, Oprah and Dr. Phil won't leave you alone (although Dr. Phil will be bothering you for a different reason).

 

[doog]

The war on terrorism is about as futile as the war on drugs. No matter how vigilent we are in policing and punishing, there will still be no way to stop it.

We should instead focus our attention on eliminating the cause. Think about it-- who among you would not be willing to fight and die for your country if China were to establish a settlement on US soil, put us in refugee camps, halt our water suply, build settlements on our land, deny us any right to self determination... and then call us terrorists for fighting back the only way we can... with stones and our own flesh. This is what the Arab world believes is happening in palenstine, funded by the all powerful USA with yours and mine tax $.

I agree with Mar... stop funding this maddness. Change our foreign policy. Stop vilifying different cultures. Every country on earth does not have to be as "free" as the USA. Lets mind our own, take care of our own, and not turn the world into the next Israel. If we do this we won't need to spy on our neighbors and give up our own personal rights.

Lets not be so eager to have our fine men and women in uniform protect our freedom abroad, yet give it up so readily at home. It is not necessary.

 

[Typhoon1244]

We're not talking SA-7s or other serious surface-to-air missiles, but shoulder-fired weapons. One would certainly FOD out an engine, and maybe even blow it off its mounts, but I don't think it'd bring a CRJ down by itself.

Uh, sir, the SA-7 is a shoulder-fired heat-seeking missile with a 1.15 kilogram high-explosive warhead...the Soviet equivalent to our Redeye or Stinger. It is serious, and it is what we're talking about. Please don't challenge me on weapon ID again.

And come and let me show you around the APU compartment of a CRJ sometime...then tell me whether you think 1.15 kg of HE would take my tail off.

Guys and girls, I'm not sitting around biting my nails about this. I'm going to go on flying my trips and enjoying my career. What irritates me is that, instead of telling us that they're going to stop these things from entering the country, the government's response to this threat has been to tell us "y'all be careful now, y'hear?"

 

[frqntflyr]

I agree with Mar... stop funding this maddness. Change our foreign policy. Stop vilifying different cultures. Every country on earth does not have to be as "free" as the USA. Lets mind our own, take care of our own, and not turn the world into the next Israel. If we do this we won't need to spy on our neighbors and give up our own personal rights.

Lets not be so eager to have our fine men and women in uniform protect our freedom abroad, yet give it up so readily at home. It is not necessary.

Hmmm that sounds interesting. Maybe the largest superpower in the world should just ignore the rest of the world and make sure everything at home is just peachy. Ignorance is bliss right?? Bottom line is that Israel is a shining light of democracy and US values in the midst of turmoil, dictatorship, and terrorism. Many of our men have died in the past fighting for FREEDOM. Foreign and domestic.
Here's a news flash for you guys... If we did things exactly like you suggest, do you honestly think that the 'former' terrorists and us would hold hands and dance around. Ummm NO! They hate us, they hate our freedom, they hate our religions, and everything else that is american.
Maybe now you'll realize the importance of supporting our fellow freedom loving countries.....Israel included! But probably not.

 

[altimaklr]

Huh? Who'd bother shooting at a little CRJ anyways?

If I was a terrorist, I'd go after American Airlines heavy metal, etc... Lets hope they don't go for the MD80's I guess, sounds like the planes with rear engines are most at risk.