Should I stay or should I go?

[pa56pa]

I need your advice on the following issue. I have been flying for this company for over a year now. Prior to my employment, the subject of sending me to Simuflite/ FSI came up and at that time, my boss verbally told me that they would take care of the training cost as long as I stayed with the company for at least 1 year.

The training did not take effect until 10 months later when the insurance demanded that I be sent for this Lear training OR ELSE, I would not be allowed to fly their airplane. Thus, I was sent to Simuflite last August for the type which cost the company $13500 + expenses. But on my first day of class, I was forced to sign a letter stating that I stay one year from my class completion date, and that if I leave before the year is up, that I would be liable for 1/12th of the cost monthly until the remaining months of the year has been paid back.

Now, an opportunity to work for another company has come up. Everything seems to be in order except for this one issue. Question: Should I stay or should I go? If I leave, will I be liable according to the letter I signed? Is this enforceable under our labor laws or am I screwed until August 2003 that I should stay to avoid paying for the training? Or should I leave and just pay it? I would appreciate your advice, especially from any legal standpoint. Thank you.

 

[banned username 2]

Well... It all depends... first off, you signed it, you should stick to it... they kept their end of the bargain (you got your type), now keep your end (either stay or pay)...

How good is this other job? Is it really worth jumping ship for?

You didn't really give enough details for us to help much...

Also did the Lear type help you get this new job?

 

[pa56pa]

"They kept their end of the bargain" .... sort of... their end of the bargain was that I work for a year, and I have as of last month. The problem is, the payback started at the end of August. If the insurance company did not hound them to get me to training after several warning letters, they would not have. In other words, the only reason why I was sent to training was because the insurance company made it mandatory a few months ago. I should've been sent a year ago. Now, I have to stay another 10 months or so, and probably without a raise or evaluation now in over a year.

Don't get me wrong, the flying is great right now because of the quality time and experience; but for other reasons such as economics, logistics, flexibility, benefits, etc. I have an opportunity to work for a better managed and professional corporate company. Thanks for your response..

 

[banned username 2]

Not sure what to tell you, that is a tough decision... I guess in the end you gotta do whats in your best interest...

 

[Peardc10]

pa56pa,

I agree with Falcon Capt., you must do what is best for you. If this new job is really a great opportunity, $13,500 is nothing in the big picture of what you could make in the grand picture of career earnings, and it sounds like you really want the job.

If you really want this job and your potential employer wants to employ you, talk to your current employer and see if you can negotiate the contract, you never know what you could resolve, be frank and honest on what you want to do.

Another option is talk to the other company and see if they would cover the cost of the contract, or a portion of the contract.

If the contract is binding, dont get messed up in a possible law suit or something that could make your life misserable.

In the end, do what you think is best for you, and look at all the options.

Good Luck

 

[Peanut gallery]

Sounds like you are going to have to make a decision about how good this new opportunity is. Remember this employer will be called for a reference. Honesty is always the best policy. Talk to your supervisor, tell him about your new opportunity and seek his advise. Do not come across as already having made a decision, hopefully this is an unsolicited offer and you can present it to him that way. You never know, maybe he will help you solve your problem.

 

[doubtful]

a deal is a deal

even if they can't enforce this training contract, I am sure the decision to take off without paying could really bite you in the a$$ at a later date. remember don't burn any bridges!
good luck

oh yeah, you don't have to make it easy for the place you are leaving though, if you need, tell them you will pay them back but it may take a bit.

 

[501261]

Exactly a deal is a deal, they paid, and you went.

Is the other job a better job, is it a $13,500 better job? If it is take it.

People that take there ratings and run are bad for the industry and are they reasons training contracts are some prevalent.

Don't want to sound harsh, but if you leave you need to pay and leaving on good terms is extremely important in this industry.

Here's something to thing about, if this new job is really a "quality" job, then they'd be more than happy to pay your old company for the training contract, then the new company "owns" the training contract and they can add you to the FS/SF contract as an additional aircraft, or recurrent. Thereby making it cheaper for everybody.

 

[Future SNA]

I agree that people who take their ratings and run are scum in the industry, but it seems you've been their long enough, talk to them, tell them your situation, what's the worst that can happen? It may hurt you in the long run, but I'm willing to bet the contract you signed isn't legally binding, probably not worded nor signed right. They typically have those, my company does, so people don't come and get IFR current and then jump ship. Either way, a Lear is a good plane, be happy.

 

[g1159]

pa56pa

I would suggest that you contact a lawyer before you talk to any one in the company. I dont believe the company cares one way or the other,if you went out looking for the job or the job came to you. The point is,you will be asking if it is ok for you to leave.Should they terminate you,would you owe them the money?
I was a c/p for twenty years and never asked anyone to sign a training contract and would not trust anyone that asks you to do so.

 

[English]

Just to clarify something 501261 wrote...

The full service contract can be bought out by your new company if it is for part 91 ops, but Flight Safety won't allow the company to buy the old contract if it involves any 135 training.

 

[pa56pa]

Thanks for the responses....

Just wanna say thanks to all who've responded.

I don't know if I even clarified it, but I would definitely pay anything owed to the company, if this was legally done correctly. A friend suggested, that if I do leave, that I can continue to fly on a contract basis at the industry rate (and not charge them) until all debts are paid. I am open to that.... I'm hoping that my boss would be.

I have also seeked legal counsel regarding this matter. Thanks again everyone....

 

[LR25]

I need your advice on the following issue. I have been flying for this company for over a year now. Prior to my employment, the subject of sending me to Simuflite/ FSI came up and at that time, my boss verbally told me that they would take care of the training cost as long as I stayed with the company for at least 1 year.

It seems to me they only sent you for training when they were forced to.

Were they ever going to send you if not forced by the insurance company?

It seems that they should have prorated your training since your hire date. It also seems that they were trying to get alot for nothing without you being sent to Simu-Flite until now, when they are being forced to.

The question I would pose to your employer is this: Will you prorate my contract from my hire date. I really wouldnt lead up to the part that you have another job offer, that might make them upset, or put a bad feeling in there gut about you.

But you have already signed, its a done deal. They hold all the cards.

To them, you owe them another year or you pay.

You allready know what you have to weigh out between your current job and the new job, just dont get in a hurry to make the grass greener, you might find out its just astro turf, and you might owe money on the deal.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

sounds like a tough decision
but...
you say on the first day of class you were "forced" to sign...
c'mon, nobody "forced" you!! yeah...they made it crappy timing and the whole operation sounds like crap but you did agree to it right??!!
end of the day, do whats best for you, be sure the new job is THAT much better. Assume you cannot use this employer for a reference...too many of those makes you look BAD down the line...
Offering to "re-pay" for your remaining "balance" of the contract is a good gesture, even if a 100$ a month or something...maybe that will smooth it over.
HINT - in the future NEVER EVER sign one of those stupid things again, you dont want to work for that type of operation!
good luck!!

 

[pa56pa]

LR25,

you're right... they most likely wouldn't have sent me to training at all if the insurance company had not mandated it....

Prorating the cost is a good suggestion too, I'll keep that in mind when negotiationg... thank you.


Gulfstream200,

Unfortunately, it was a "forced" situation. If I didn't sign, I would've been out of a job.... can't afford that these days, since I have a house, a wife and 2 kids to support with one being a special needs child... so, to keep the job, I had to sign... the whole operation seems crappy, but the flying experience is invaluable... so, there are trade-offs, but that seems to be a part of the territory... and trust me, if I had more courage at the time, like this new opportunity that just recently come up (thats 10X better) I wouldn't have signed anything. I agree with you--- NEVER EVER sign those stupid things again.... you dont want to work for that type of operation! cuz after all, IT WAS REALLY STUPID! Lesson learned.

 

[CL60]

Work ethics and professionalism

The purpose of a training contract??? Usually, they are for companies that have a hard time keeping employees. Why do employees keep leaving? There are probalby plenty of reasons for the big turnover but my guesses are the two most common, low compensation and undesireable QOL. In my opinion, the cost of training is the cost of doing business for any employer. Asking for a contract is just shameful.

My personal ethics demand however that I stay for at least one year after training, especially a type rating.

Two things to consider:

First, how much will it hurt your young career if you just stay until your obligations are met? From your statistics, I'm guessing you have at least 25 or more years left to fly... there will be many more opportunities for you as long as you maintain a stellar reputation. True, the other job may not be there when you are ready to leave but you will have kept your reputation intact despite the fact you are working for less than reputable people. The other company may respect your character and work ethic and keep you in mind for future reference. They may even prurchase your contract from "evilempire air" after seeing you have character.

Second, if you do leave prior to fulfilling your commitments, how much will it hurt your reputation? How will it look to other perspective employers? What kind of a message will it send to your peers and others who may be a part of your network.

In my opinion, your reputation is everything. It is worth more than money and will take you farther in the long run than flight time or experience. Even if you are fired from "evilempire air" and are unemployed, it is still better than tarnishing yourself over some obscure job early in your career.

Forget the attorney and start thinking about building a career based on solid ethics and professionalism.

Good luck...

 

[pa56pa]

CL60

Thanks for the wise advice... something more important than my career that makes me opt for this upcoming opportunity is that I would be much closer to home and the family. It's tough... If my wife and kids were with me, it would be a different story, but at the moment, my commute is 6 hrs by car and on my own expense... needless to say, I would jump at the first opportunity that would allow me to finally be close to home.

I got to say though, that your post is truly something to think about.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

OK, not to beat this to death, but...

You cannot say you were "FORCED" to sign anything....yes, it was done in a crappy way, they put you against a wall during training...but YOU took this job with this crappy employer and YOU signed your name on that paper right? Sure, I understand, everyone needs a job, we all have families and bills...I just really believe if you go ahead a sign an agreement you should stick to it or make restitution...you could have walked out of training.

Now, in reality, I have learned that in this business you have to solely look out for #1. If this new job is ALL THAT, TAKE IT - dont look back. Treat it as a lesson and dont use it as a reference. I agree with the above post that the types of employers who do this are the lowest crap going, they wonder WHY people leave ASAP? Maybe they should improve the QOL at thier outfits....but....to them its easier and cheaper to run people through school and hope they get a little time out of you. This is the same type of outfit that cringes when you give 2 weeks notice (they need 2 months they say) but when they dont need you they give you 2 days notice!! same old story....

If the new job is a great one, just DO IT I say!!

Good Luck either way!!!

 

[hawkerpilot]

Dont Look Back

Take the new job and pay back the training fee if you have to....and Never, Ever sign one of those contracts again. A company that feels the need to make you sign a contract generally has a good reason for doing this....they are lousy and they know it so they have to make you stay somehow.
The company I am in the process of leaving made me sign a one year contract when I started. I completed this obligation and have been there almost three years but now they are requiring that all pilots sign AGAIN when their contract is up. I will save you the details but suffice it to say that they have turned themselves into one of the half breed charter operators out there and guys are beginning to bail so this is their civilian version of Stop Loss.