Should I Major in Commercial Aviation?!?!

[studt needs adv]

I want to thank everyone that has given me some advice on what to major in. I have also been considering eletrical engineering as a major at San Diego State University. And to Typhoonpilot haha I probably should have looked over what I wrote alittle more carefully. And I did appreciate your adivce. This thread probably isn't prefect iether but I had to make this one quick.

Thanks Again to Everyone!

-Any other advice about majors, schools, flying, finding flight time please keep sending!

 

[bobbysamd]

Aviation career and choice of degree

You first have to decide if you really want to be a professional pilot. That decision will dictate your choice of programs at U.N.D.

Frankly, I would hesitate to recommend a professional aviation career to anyone at this time. All you have to do is look at the news. You hear stories about X major about to go bankrupt, or Y major about to shut down, or Z major asking its employees, again, for wage and benefits givebacks. Don't forget about rising fuel cost stories. This is significant because hiring at the major airlines drives hiring at the lower levels. In other words, if the majors are hiring, they will pick up pilots at the level before them, with the effect spreading downward. If the majors are not hiring, pilots will stay put, which means fewer opportunities, and chances, to break in. Read this Rocky Mountain News article from a couple of weeks ago.

We have one contributor who is predicting a hiring boom in 2007. He is predicting a boom because, he says, hiring booms for the last thirty years have begun in years ending in 7. The landscape is different this time around because the majors are in trouble. Moreover, even if there were a boom, the majors must first bring back and retrain their furloughees before they can hire new pilots. The majors have cut back on their routes and/or have vended them to the regionals. All this impacts hiring - aside from the fact that there are so many qualified applicants available for very few jobs.

You have to consider these factors as part of your decision.

Let's say you opt for the career. I will take the minority viewpoint regarding a degree program. I like an aviation degree. If U.N.D. is anything like Embry-Riddle, you will get a great aviation education and good flight training. More importantly, as an Aeronautical Science major, you can avail yourself of internship opportunities in which you can make contacts that will help you down the road. You probably can be hired at your school to instruct after you graduate, which solves the first job after flight training problem. The Aviation Management program, above, sounds fine, but you should find out beforehand if its participants can be hired at the school to instruct. Finally, a college degree from an accredited school is a college degree. It will open doors that otherwise would be closed. You can still take electives in Accounting or whatever if you want a non-aviation skill.

I'm surprised that you haven't been advised yet on this thread that a college degree is not required and that you should forego college momentarily and start flying. The idea is you can build important time, e.g., "TJPIC" time sooner and get farther faster. Don't listen to that advice. You need the credentials to get jobs that build "TJPIC" and your degree is one such credential. Go to college now and get it out of the way. It's very hard to return to school after you have been working and away from "school" mode for several years.

Hope this helps you. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[JaceTheAce]

Here is my very first post, so here goes:
I came into UND as a Junior-status transfer student in August. I can tell you that UND has a great program overall but there are many things you should be aware of before making your decision to come to UND. I am an Aviation Management major and would recommend that you do not major in Commercial Aviation because your options are very limited in the common case of being furloughed.

Consider the following:
• UND's Laptop Program requires that all Aviation students lease their laptops, even though you already have a nice fancy one obtained for your graduation present. They charge $450 PER SEMESTER for a mediocre Dell Latitude D505. The laptop comes with Vector Systems Training Software ($99 software) and Jeppesen FlightStar (which you will NEVER use in any of your classes), and all the usual Microsoft Word crap and Flight Sim 2002 (yes, only 2002 - they are too cheap to get the 2004 version). In the end of your four years, you will have spent anywhere from $4000-5000 on a $1400 laptop that you will NOT BE ABLE TO KEEP. You must return the laptop upon your departure from UND. UND's reason to justify the cost of the laptop leasing is so they can provide "tech support" if you need help on how to use it. Most aviation students are already very good with computers so they never need this service, plus Dell gives the tech support for free.
• Apartment rates here in Grand Forks are higher than the national average. I pay $780 for a 2 bed room / 2 bath / w&d in the apartment / central a/c and heat. That is a little too high for such a shi++y place to live. Don't even think about paying $550 for a 2-bed apartment - it will be barely livable.
• I don't know where you are from, but the winters here are horrible. You cannot fly in the late Fall and Winter due to bad weather. If it's sunny and warm it's too windy, if the winds are calm it's too cold and cloudy. Spring and summer is the only good time to fly and I dare anyone to pre-flight an airplane in -10 degrees with -30 degree windchill (UND goes no-fly after -20 degrees). It really sucks. I have to put several layers of clothing, including long underwear under my pants, sock cap, two layers of gloves, and I still am freezing my balls off.
• Be prepared to spend LOTS of money winterizing your car. I had to spend $500 on snow/ice tires because my car had Z-rated uni-directional high performance tires that are not made for the snow. You can get away with all-season tires, but they are not very good on ice.
• They never cancel school due to bad weather. Last February it got down to -44 with -60 windchill factor. School was never cancelled. You can get severe frostbite within 2 minutes of your skin being exposed to these conditions, and it is not uncommon to hear of people getting treated for severe frostbite, with possible toe/finger amputation.
• Car insurance rates are higher than in California due to the winter being the perfect condition for an nice bad accident.
• Wages are extremely low (if you want a job on the side while you go to school). You better be happy with $6.50 an hour because that's all you'll get here.
• Flight instructors here are hit or miss. Many have large ego's because they are "UND Flight Instructors" and are the "creme de la creme". I fortunately have a Flight Instructor who did not develop the UND CFI EGO.
• Be prepared to go through unnecessary constant changes in academic policies in the aviation departments - they are notorious for changing co-requesites and pre-requisites for your classes and mess up your long-term education plans.
• If you fail a stage check, each stage check failure knocks off 2% of your total ground school grade. I have experience at this first hand, as a brand new stage pilot I had failed me because I did not know how to properly draw the WHOLE ENTIRE schematic of the electrical system on the Piper Warrior. I am still in the process of getting my 2% of my grade back because it's a matter of me getting a B instead of an A because of it. Two faculty members are in disagreeance with the stage pilot and are assisting me in resolving this.
I can go on about the negative aspects of UND, but please consider what I have said. Other than the latter, UND overall has a good flight program. Just be sure you are able to deal with the hierarchy and political havoc that goes on within the Aerospace program.

 

[bobbysamd]

U.N.D. v. ERAU

Just be sure you are able to deal with the hierarchy and political havoc that goes on within the Aerospace program.

You're not going to like this, but U.N.D. sounds a lot like Riddle to me.

 

[FreeFaller]

Air Guard IS Military.
I spent 4+ years trying to get an Aviation degree AND fly. Found I couldn't do both. Thought I'd be an airline mech. (same airline benifits), enlisted in the Navy, got trained, experience, saw places I'd not see otherwise (good or bad, it's an adventure). Finished up my B.S. nights & weekends & applied to Navy pilot traing. Got LUCKY, & became a Naval Aviator, saw lots, best time of life, then an airline pilot. Through all that, saw the world and am still broke, but wouldn't trade it for anything. Making a buck in aviation is tough, DON'T DO IT FOR THE MONEY!! It takes time too, 10 years from now you might be in a position to say it's a career, don't commit everything too soon.
My two cents would be to plan on STARTING off in the military. Either before (enlisted) or after (Officer (better)) your college degree in Math or Science type fields. That puts you four to 10 years down the road when your commitment is up, THEN decide if an aviation career is best for you. If not, you've got a background most employers will jump on.

 

[Thurman Merman]

ditto

Oh yeah forgot the acedemic side. That laptop thing is new they didn't require it when I was there. They do bend you over without lube with plane costs, I remeber a seminole costing $220 w/o instructors. The whole D!ckhead instructors thing is true, fortunately my time there was spent under the tutilage of great guys that became drinking buddies on occasion. But rest assure the guys who think they're some sh!t hot throttle jockey is quickly crushed when they get to an airline, I've seen it first hand and even had to curtail some snotty FO feeding me som "co-captain" B.S. I was there for five years and they only canceled school once due to weather which that following weekend prompted a "NO SCHOOL KENDALL" chant for anybody that remembers the old pres Kendall Baker. Also, don't expect to have any decision making skills, unless its 5000 foot ceilings, a gazillion miles of visibility, with less than ten knots of cross wind, and no thunderstorms in the tri state area, you ain't flyin'. Unfortunately they don't have the option now (I think) that I had, you only had to get a com mult eng inst. which allowed for a real minor and with a lil' more effort a double major.

You know the more a recollect the more I can't figure out why I went there in the first place.

On the flip side being that there is a heavy scandinavian flavor, a lot of six foot blond haired blue eyed hunnies. The accent takes time to get use to, watch the movie "Fargo" for reference.

 

[NOMORERJS]

YES,


1) HUGE retirements in the next 10 years!

2) Do NOT TAKE A LOW PAYING JOB JUST TO BUILD FLIGHT TIME!

3) WE ALL MUST STICK TOGETHER TO REBUILD THE PROFESSION!

 

[Icelandair]

Chuck in the tower sometimes still does the whole WAAAAAAUUUUUSSSSSSSAAAAAUUUUU!!! thing when you report it.

 

[FN FAL]

Sometimes they look for the guy that puts that foot forward and wants it more than the next guy and a degree in Commercial Aviation proves you're that guy. I'd say go for it.

 

[bobbysamd]

Retirements v. attrition

HUGE retirements in the next 10 years!

Kit Darby has said that for the past twenty years in promoting his "pilot shortage" - and we know how true that is. In addition, we don't know that the jobs vacated by retirements will be filled. They very well could go away by way of attrition.

There will always be some hiring, but not in the boom proportions of earlier times.

 

[EagleRJ]

Go do the aviation thing at UND- but only if you truly want to fly for a living and enjoy flying. Getting into aviation is a long road that includes some pretty nasty jobs along the way, but if you truly love to fly, the rewards are worth it.

I've met people both at flight school and at the airlines that only got into the industry because of the "money and prestige" they would get. Most of those students washed out, and most of them that made it to the airlines are now busy making life miserable for everyone around them. You have to do it because you love it.
I don't think you said- have you taken any flight lessons already? You might not even know if flying is for you.

An E.E. degree can make you some money too. I don't know how the job market is for that right now, but I suspect it's currently better than aviation. Like others have said, Aviation Management would be a good way to get some of your ratings and still have skills to fall back on.

Don't forget to report Lagoon inbound! (what Civil Engineering genius would put the waste treatment pond upwind from the city? )

 

[MarineGrunt]

Don't forget to report Lagoon inbound! (what Civil Engineering genius would put the waste treatment pond upwind from the city? )

You mean that was human waste I was swimming in??? Awww, DUDE!!!!

 

[NTXPilot]

Originally posted by GogglesPisano
My advice is to drink heavily.

If I only decided to ignore that advice when I got to college...

Seriously though, I would consider getting a degree in something outside aviation...it will serve as a good backup. I'm graduating with a BA in psychology (not much good by itself) so I'm going for more school, master's here I come. Take the time now to get the education, it will only benefit you. And boy does it FLY BY! Fly on the side. If you can go to a local FBO get your CFI and start flying at your university. Start a flying club at your university to attract potential students, offer intro flights, that kinda thing. By the time you graduate you might have enough time to go directly to a regional. I say have a backup plan, you NEVER KNOW what this industry will do.

On a side note, I thought about rushing through college and/or going to a flight school too so I could start flying. Am I glad I didn't do that! College is the best 8 years of your life.

Those are just my thoughts anyway.

 

[bobbysamd]

Non-aviation degree

I would consider getting a degree in something outside aviation...it will serve as a good backup . . . .

. . . but it will be most effective if you get some experience in your degree field. If you get a non-aviation degree and fly for several years without gaining that experience, your degree won't be an effective backup.

Of course, any degree is better than none because a four-year degree opens doors that otherwise slam shut. That is still another reason why I like an aviation degree.

 

[Lear60Guy]

I would highly recommend a somewhat smaller college aviation program, They are a lot more reasonable as far as costs (still under a hundred bucks an hour with brand new airplanes here), and the training is still very good. Personally i go to the University of Oklahoma. In my opinion this is a very good size program, you get the personalism of a small school, but you still get the bigger school connections, for example OU has a bridge program with American Eagle for their turbine transnsition program where you get to go through ground school and sim training at Eagle in the same class as new hires, or if you don't want to do that you can still fly the schools King Air for turbine transition. We have gotten several ex riddle/sparten students, especially lately. While a smaller college program doesn't have the same recognition as Riddle/UND/Spartan, it works out very well for some people. Lots of schools have programs, Kansas State, OSU, Purdue etc. etc. Just my .02 cents