Should I fill out a NASA form?

[Fly_Chick]

I figure if they wanted to make an issue about it they would have called or said something then. Thanks for the help guys and gals.

Sleep tight, tomorrow is another day. Do not worry about it. If they wanted to make an issue out of it, they would have already done so...

My question still remains... what is an altitude violation? 200'. 300'. where can I find this information?

 

[FlyJordan]

\


If I am having a gear problem, and at any point I get three green, I Leave It The Fukk Alone. Maybe gear lights flickering and gear motor cutting in and out is 'normal' for this model? I have no idea but it sounds kinda spooky to me.

The reason I was not worried about pulling the gear back up was because I could always do the same thing again. The gear will free fall, so it was all good.

 

[FlyJordan]

My question still remains... what is an altitude violation? 200'. 300'. where can I find this information?

When you find it please let me know, but I dont know where too.

 

[GravityHater]

Not a regulation indicating the violation level but it might indicate they are not looking for us unless we exceed 299' deviation from assigned altitudes:

http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/ATC/Chp5/atc0502.html#5-2-17

5-2-17. VALIDATION OF MODE C READOUT

Ensure that Mode C altitude readouts are valid after accepting an interfacility handoff, initial track start, track start from coast/suspend tabular list, missing, or unreasonable Mode C readouts. For TPX-42 and equivalent systems ensure that altitude readout is valid immediately after identification. (TCDD-/BANS-equipped tower cabs are not required to validate Mode C readouts after receiving interfacility handoffs from TRACONs according to the procedures in para 5-4-3, Methods, subpara a4.)

a. Consider an altitude readout valid when:

1. It varies less than 300 feet from the pilot reported altitude, or

PHRASEOLOGY-
(If aircraft is known to be operating below the lowest useable flight level),

SAY ALTITUDE.

or

(If aircraft is known to be operating at or above the lowest useable flight level),

SAY FLIGHT LEVEL.

2. You receive a continuous readout from an aircraft on the airport and the readout varies by less than 300 feet from the field elevation, or

NOTE-
A continuous readout exists only when the altitude filter limits are set to include the field elevation.

 

[lawfly]

File, with generic description of incident on ID Strip.
I have read that 400' deviation triggers bells and whistles at Center. But doesn't matter whether ATC said anything or not. If more than 10 days go by, you haven't filed, and you receive an LOI, you'll wish you had filed. The last FAA enforcement action I worked was an altitude deviation case with a NASA form.

 

[Swass]

If you ever have the slightest question that you may need to file then do so by all means.

 

[FlyJordan]

File, with generic description of incident on ID Strip.
I have read that 400' deviation triggers bells and whistles at Center. But doesn't matter whether ATC said anything or not. If more than 10 days go by, you haven't filed, and you receive an LOI, you'll wish you had filed. The last FAA enforcement action I worked was an altitude deviation case with a NASA form.

Did it help the pilot?

 

[FlyJordan]

Here is an idea, could I just call center and see if what the deal is?

 

[Flechas]

Don't worry dude, they don't even remember you now, they deal with so much BS everyday....

 

[A Squared]

Not to pick on you, fly jordan, just trying to put it in perspective.

This question comes up fairly frequently on this and other forums. It shouldn't. It shouldn't be one of those things you have to ask about. If there's any question, file one. There's no down side to filing. There is no limit, file as many as you want. Except in the case of an intentional violatin or an accident, the FAA should never see your name, NASA removes all identifying information from the report before forwarding the data to the FAA. Of course it is certainly possble for a corrupt FAA official to have a corrupt buddy in NASA who is feeding him info under the table, but the FAA doesn't have a systematic program in place to monitor how many reports someone files.

If something unsafe happens, file a report

If something happens which has any possibility for resulting in a violation against you, file a report.

 

[Bandit60]

I say file the report...but on another note, why were you messing with the gear once you got it down and three green. I dont think i would have sucked the gear back up and get it stuck in the up position.

 

[lawfly]

In response to FlYJordan's inquiry: It didn't hurt. There was a successful outcome based on the total evidence presented. That's all I can say publicly.

 

[RichardRambone]

I say no big deal. Ive inadvertantly violated class B airspace twice and Ive luckily got no more than maybe a small lecture over the radio. Ive also had 3 total electrical failures before and a sliding off of the taxiway due to the brakes being almost none existent. Never filed a NASA but perhaps I should have. I sound like a horrible pilot now but I swear, only the airspace violations were my fault. Just being dumb i guess.

 

[NuGuy]

At what deviation from altitude does ATC "provide" a telephone number to call? 200'? 300'? Where can I find this in writing? I had one instructor in the past tell me that at 300' he could be violated.

In the en-route enviroment, that is , talking to XYZ Center, their separation criteria is 5 miles or 1000 feet. Imagine if you will, a cylinder around your airplane that is 5 miles in diameter, and 2000 feet in height, and you are in the middle of it.

Unless you have called traffic in sight, and have been instructed to maintain visual separation (which is fairly uncommon in the center enviroment), these standards must be met at all times.

In practice, ATC allows 250 feet for instrument and/or enviromental "error", but mode C transponders only report in 100 foot increments, so really the limit is 200 feet.

If these parameters are violated, the computer system at the center AUTOMATICALLY notes the loss of separation (which is why it's called "the snitch"), and a record of the "event" is printed right at the supervisors desk.

The office of "quality control" at the center reveiews the tapes (both communications and radar). If it was an ATC error, it is handled internally, but can have fairly serious consequences for the controller. If it was pilot error, it is forwarded to the FSDO. It may have also been caused by an equipment problem, so that too, is investigated.

But generally speaking, if you deviate from altitude or course, as long as you don't bust anyones separation bubble, its not going to cause a ruckus. There is no record of it, and the paperwork is a HUGE PITA for the controllers. Thus the "no harm, no foul" mantra.

If you ever have an event that you are concerned about, simply ask the controller if there was a loss of separation. Only if he says yes do you need to worry. You can also call the center, and ask if any pilot deviation reports were filed on such and such a date.

I think I read somewhere that center radar has a 6 second sweep.

In the terminal envrioment, the quicker scan rate (more along the lines of 1 per second) of the ASR radar system allows for closer separation, and at some facilities, the separation criteria is 1000 feet or "target resolution", which is a fancy way of saying as long as the targets don't "merge" on the radar display, you're ok.

Nu

 

[A Squared]

In response to FlYJordan's inquiry: It didn't hurt. There was a successful outcome based on the total evidence presented. That's all I can say publicly.

THe ASRS report wouldn't have any effect on the outcome of the hearing, It would waive the penalty if the pilot was found in violation and given a penalty

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

and there was not traffic and stuff

I love when you pilots think you have the flick all the time...no traffic....blah blah blah.....you don't have a f'ing clue what his traffic was.