Shot Across the Bough: CAL Furlough Threat

[Jonny Sacko]

No, not the line pilot, or management. Furlough discussion came from the LOCAL ALPA! Pathetic

 

[pipe]

Nice thread. Please take a bough.

PIPE

 

[Andy]

No pilot is immune from furloughs

This is not management posturing for contract negotiations; everyone needs to get that concept out of their heads.

There was a line that most everyone missed in CAL's Operational Performance report (already posted by Jetjockey): http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080401/latu178.html?.v=20

"Continental ended the first quarter of 2008 with unrestricted cash and short-term investments balance of $2.51 billion. This balance excludes $237 million in par value of student loan-related auction rate securities that were previously classified as short-term investments on our consolidated balance sheets. These securities were reclassified as long-term investments during the quarter."

I bolded the important part. Those auction rate securities (ARS) failed to be rolled over due to the credit crisis. Here are a couple of articles:
http://dealbreaker.com/2008/03/auction_rate_securities_still.php
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=home&sid=avH68.TOCYHM
This isn't a problem. This is a DISASTER. And this isn't going to be limited to CAL. The credit markets are locked up, and now we're seeing airlines' cash/cash equivalents suddenly turn into 'long-term investments.' CAL's cash on hand has decreased from $2.8B to $2.51B in Q1.

The difference between today and post-911 is that there's little or no money that can be borrowed. The credit markets are fully locked up.

If you're a pilot, it's time to start practicing. I'll even give some assistance:

Use "would you like to Super-Size?" not "wanna super?" and "Would you like fries with that?" not "wansa fries?"

Y'all should be well on your way to counter qualifications. If you're really good, Mickey D's is hiring for their corporate fleet.

(For a little levity) Here's the video I shot on my job during my last furlough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFQyib5ZQZY
Ain't I a handsome devil?

 

[Flopgut]

I've come to believe CAL ALPA is desiring of a furlough situation. CAL senior types are seeking to trade with mgt on the long overdue increases for pilots under 10 years longevity and hoard more for themselves. If they can furlough 5-10% this would help them out greatly. What is surprising is not that we're hearing it [furlough] from the union first, but that WE are surprised by hearing this from the union first! ALPA sucks, CAL ALPA sucks even worse...

 

[Palomino]

I've come to believe CAL ALPA is desiring of a furlough situation. CAL senior types are seeking to trade with mgt on the long overdue increases for pilots under 10 years longevity and hoard more for themselves. If they can furlough 5-10% this would help them out greatly. What is surprising is not that we're hearing it [furlough] from the union first, but that WE are surprised by hearing this from the union first! ALPA sucks, CAL ALPA sucks even worse...

you could always 'self-furlough' and seek other employment.

furlough the cheap pilots and pay the senior ones more? what kind of management is gonna do that? less bodies at a greater cost?

please don't signup for Negotiating Committee chair...

 

[Flopgut]

furlough the cheap pilots and pay the senior ones more?

Well that's just it....the "cheap" ones don't want to be "cheap" any longer! If 51% of the list had <12 yrs the transfer of wealth in the next contract would be enormous. by exploiting age 65 and PBS, and allowing the instructors back, CALALPA intends to spare the company the expense of giving a raise to half our pilots. The junior ones!!

 

[Papa Woody]

Are they shooting across the tree branch?

Do we "hang a shining star upon the highest front-end of a large ship?"

Jeez!

 

[Papa Woody]

The pointy end of a ship is called a "Bow". That`s where a shot is aimed if a warning is deemed necessary.

And the back of an airplane is the tale.

 

[Palomino]

Well that's just it....the "cheap" ones don't want to be "cheap" any longer! If 51% of the list had <12 yrs the transfer of wealth in the next contract would be enormous. by exploiting age 65 and PBS, and allowing the instructors back, CALALPA intends to spare the company the expense of giving a raise to half our pilots. The junior ones!!

my rough estimate according to the latest seniority pdf file shows #2488 as a 1997 hire with an 'A****' employee #. 5034 pilots on that list published in Jan 2008.

did a cursory sift thru the different hire dates and this seems to be the cutoff for the 12 year mark to date.

2488/5034 = 49%. we're getting there.

feel free to dispute my math as it was a 5 minute review of the situation.

i see your point with the age 65 and 14 instructors returning. i am as upset about both issues as anyone on the list. it's gonna take time at CAL to fix things. i think we're going the right direction.

please make an effort to show up at the next gathering of pilots who want to promote change. the March event was great and i was proud to be there. hope you were there also and will be at the next.

nothing will be given to us. sitting on our duffs won't get the job done. actions speak and i'm confident that our collective voice will continue to be heard.

 

[Flopgut]

2488/5034 = 49%. we're getting there.

feel free to dispute my math as it was a 5 minute review of the situation.

Your math is fine. I totally disagree with your statement "we're getting there". We're getting nowhere!

Age 65: not negotiated. Instructors: not negotiated. Now we've cancelled classes and the UNION is talking furloughs. My friend, we aren't getting anywhere. I'm in favor of these public rallies but realize: this stuff is just meant to keep the junior guys busy while the senior steal everything. Your math shows it: they're stacking the deck

• and this vote is going to screw the bottom half. Let's screw the rallies and do the same thing they're doing. Work outside the CBA and direct negotiating process and put them back on the defensive. Keep the senior guys honest!!

 

[Furloughed80]

What goes around comes around.

 

[IronCityBlue]

Well that's just it....the "cheap" ones don't want to be "cheap" any longer! If 51% of the list had <12 yrs the transfer of wealth in the next contract would be enormous. by exploiting age 65 and PBS, and allowing the instructors back, CALALPA intends to spare the company the expense of giving a raise to half our pilots. The junior ones!!

I'll admit your theory is possible, but I don't completely buy into it. FIrst of all, I doubt you're going to see a contract any time soon, especially a nice, thick, juicy, top heavy one. It will take a while, and the company, even if they furlough now, which they have not even hinted at (only pilots have, which is perfectly fine since we do tend to be worry warts) they will have hired hundreds and hundreds more junior guys. And every day more junior guys are eligibile to vote.

Also keep in mind that they would have to furlough all apprentice members, and then a significant number of additional pilots (up to the junior captain, probably) just to skew the numbers enough to ensure a top heavy outcome at the expense of everyone else.

Possible? I guess. Probable? I'm just not seeing it.

 

[Flopgut]

I'll admit your theory is possible, but I don't completely buy into it. FIrst of all, I doubt you're going to see a contract any time soon, especially a nice, thick, juicy, top heavy one. It will take a while, and the company, even if they furlough now, which they have not even hinted at (only pilots have, which is perfectly fine since we do tend to be worry warts) they will have hired hundreds and hundreds more junior guys. And every day more junior guys are eligibile to vote.

Also keep in mind that they would have to furlough all apprentice members, and then a significant number of additional pilots (up to the junior captain, probably) just to skew the numbers enough to ensure a top heavy outcome at the expense of everyone else.

Possible? I guess. Probable? I'm just not seeing it.

It was not that long ago, the company came to CALALPA and wanted to raise new hire pay because they saw too many leaving. Pilot supply/demand was set to go the way of fuel. PraterOS and CALALPA saw to it that [pilot supply/demand] went thier way with 65. THAT is what was going to earn this whole pilot group the "nice, thick, juicy" contract!

You are right, we won't be voting for a long time. Voting member numbers have been accounted for and the number under <12 years will be running a deficeit. All part of the plan IMHO. I'm trying to caution everyone junior. Maybe you don't see it right now, but try to be vigilant. I have communicated with MEC members for over a year now. Lately, they don't communicate in earnest and have gone back to the half-speak BS that usually preceeds an ALPA backstab.

 

[IronCityBlue]

It was not that long ago, the company came to CALALPA and wanted to raise new hire pay because they saw too many leaving. Pilot supply/demand was set to go the way of fuel. PraterOS and CALALPA saw to it that [pilot supply/demand] went thier way with 65. THAT is what was going to earn this whole pilot group the "nice, thick, juicy" contract!

You are right, we won't be voting for a long time. Voting member numbers have been accounted for and the number under <12 years will be running a deficeit. All part of the plan IMHO. I'm trying to caution everyone junior. Maybe you don't see it right now, but try to be vigilant. I have communicated with MEC members for over a year now. Lately, they don't communicate in earnest and have gone back to the half-speak BS that usually preceeds an ALPA backstab.

I'm still not convinced that's the case. But if it is, give the senior guys the bulk of the raises if that's what it takes to keep scope where it is. That's the battleground this time around that will decide the future of the junior pilots at every airline.

 

[Flopgut]

I'm still not convinced that's the case. But if it is, give the senior guys the bulk of the raises if that's what it takes to keep scope where it is. That's the battleground this time around that will decide the future of the junior pilots at every airline.

I agree scope is very important. I'm adverse to the notion that the senior should get the bulk of the raises, however.

All I'm saying is: Proceed with caution on these old ALPA guys. They are not who they appear to be.