Short Field+Soft Field=How?

[svcta]

sigh.

if you're giving dual in such an airplane, buggie, just make sure to mention that it's not always the case. Regarding training, they are 2 distinct tasks.

Once again, you've chosen to bring up an aspect that noone was talking about. We get it: All hail AVBUG, most wise and knowledgeable poster on the internet.

 

[avbug]

A thoughtful and intelligent response, as usual.

In an aircraft that has the same technique for short and soft field, there's no need for panic. An examiner who asks for one a short technique will see it demonstrated. An examienr who asks for a soft technique will see it demonstrated. Both will see the same thing.

Not exactly rocket science, you know.

 

[svcta]

head, meet wall. Repeat.

Devil's in the details, isn't it?

You know you'd be making the converse argument if the situation were reversed. Can I get a witness!?

 

[chuckthepilot]

I was a bit surprised by this. I was told through all my training that the FAA viewed all PTS material as "worse case scenario." IE Short and soft. Granted, nobody I knew had to land a cub on a roof, but if they failed you on these grounds it was generally accepted that you had really screwed up on something related to this, but not on the actual PTS itself.

 

[svcta]

say huh?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Well from your standard, run of the mill short field landing perspective, you could dig your way into the ground by using max braking on a soft field.

That's sort of the point that I think a couple of folks were making. The PTS task is a step-by-step, by-rote, snapshot of one discrete skill set that, in the real world, is part of a bigger picture. In that bigger picture, what you are supposedly learning from this, and the other maneuvers, is a set of skills that give you the ability to control the aircraft - ultimately you have to apply and correlate (to use the buzzwords) so that you use the skills you have to meet the situation you are in.

So, the "book" soft field landing gives (or should give) understanding the reverse side of the power curve, how to steepen a descent while keeping energy under control, practice in aiming for a specific touchdown spot, and the effect of flaps on breaking ability. "Soft" field practice, even on a paved runway works the skill to use your pitch and power tools with enough finesse to decrease the descent rate before touchdown and keep the nose from bogging in.

It's the knowledge and skills that we are supposed to get out of this, not some silly idea that if the field is short, we slam on the brakes regardless of the short runway's condition.

Looking at them that way, asking a student to combine them makes sense - of course you're not going to slam on the brakes if the field is soft as well as short. We also avoid the common refrain that short field landing practice is just silly on a paved runway. So far the best "soft field" landing I've done was on a paved runway when we were worried about the condition of a nosewheel and wanted to keep it off the ground as long as possible as we slowed after landing.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Granted, nobody I knew had to land a cub on a roof,

There was a story a few years back about a pilot who took off from an airport and had an engine problem as he flew over a downtown area and did an excellent short field landing on the roof of, as I recall, a supermarket.

Ditto on svcta's "huh?"

 

[Swass]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001208X06938&ntsbno=MIA97FA010&akey=1

 

[avbug]

Somewhat off the thread topic, but from the NTSB narrative posted by Swass:

The pilot stated that he changed the engine oil and cleaned the oil screen 1 week before the accident; however, he did not operate the engine with the cowling removed after the oil change to check for oil leaks. He is not an Airframe or Powerplant mechanic but is authorized by 14 CFR Part 43 to perform preventative maintenance to his airplane which includes lubrication and cleaning and replacing oil strainers or filter elements.

It's as good a time as any to remind folks that while Appendix A of Part 43 does allow owner preventative maintenance, the non-mechanic performing that maintenance is just as responsible for full compliance with all practices and proceedures...manufacturer, FAA, and industry. That report is a good example of the cost of failing to take that responsibility seriously.

 

[dogismycopilot]

C. TASK: SOFT-FIELD TAKEOFF AND CLIMB (ASEL)
REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3; POH/AFM.
Objective. To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to a soft-field takeoff and
climb.
2. Positions the flight controls for existing wind conditions and to
maximize lift as quickly as possible.
3. Clears the area; taxies onto the takeoff surface at a speed consistent
with safety without stopping while advancing the throttle smoothly to
takeoff power.
4. Establishes and maintains a pitch attitude that will transfer the weight
of the airplane from the wheels to the wings as rapidly as possible.
5. Lifts off at the lowest possible airspeed and remains in ground effect
while accelerating to VX or VY, as appropriate.
6. Establishes a pitch attitude for VX or VY, as appropriate, and
maintains selected airspeed +10/-5 knots, during the climb.
7. Retracts the landing gear, if appropriate, and flaps after clear of any
obstacles or as recommended by the manufacturer.
8. Maintains takeoff power and VX or VY +10/-5 knots to a safe
maneuvering altitude.
9. Maintains directional control and proper wind-drift correction
throughout the takeoff and climb.
10. Completes the appropriate checklist.

Looks like I would choose a climbout at VX if a shorter Soft Field T/O was desired, all other things remaining equal. But maybe I'm not reading enough into it.

 

[pilotyip]

If you used a soft field procedure, i.e. nose of ground during roll, you would fail the PTS for a short field T/O.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I agree, I came from Iowa, believe me...soft fields are typically short. we used to do them in flight school for real life practice and its an interesting challenge. landing, use soft technique, just no brakes... like landing on an ice covered runway...no brakes. you dont have much choice on this, you cant touch down like you would on a normal shorty, you could bury/rip off the the gear. havent done it in years, but i think we approached like a short to get the higher angle of descent to clear any obstacle, but came in with power at the last moment to deccelerate vertically and then go for the soft touchdown. make the call fromthe air. if in doubt...dont.