Silver Wings said:
I
Legacy at $20 million (putting the $25 million capital saved form not buying a G-string into the bank at 10% = $2.5 million a year)
Using the $2.5 milllion a year (or less) to charter in a G-string or VIP B747/BBJ2 or Cit II or whatever, for the flights when the Legacy is either too much or not enough..... Hey I might even buy NJ shares and cut a deal with them to manage the Legacy as offset......whatever the solution $45 million + for the top G-string is a hell of a lot of capital at risk..........when there are potential alternatives. Thankfully they're possibly always going to be G-string buyers willing to lay down the big bucks so that the more $$ wise amongst us can charter them without the financial hassle, and hence take the benefit from buying the Legacy....now all I need to do is work out how to get the big bucks ......Hmmmmmmm !
At least you concede the Legacy is not the plane for world-wide ops. But you must haven't checked an NBAA directory lately or seen enough flight departments up close to realize that most of them already do what you surmise they haven't been doing.....fitting airplanes to the mission. There's plenty of companies that have more than one fleet type, using cheaper, less-capable aircraft flying those in addition to more capable ones (another flaw in your premise is the notion that mixed fleets don't exist). That's becaue the usual process involves a company outgrowing what they already have, and then they decide to either supplement or replace what they do, not running in to plunk down $45m on their first aquisition. Pilots are not the sole possessers of this concept...you're preaching to the choir not only made up of pilots, but of beancounters and Boards everywhere.
And just like they know the options of available aircraft, because of the expenses involved at any level, they certainly know the options of ownership vs. frac vs. charger, and continually run the numbers. If a company WANTED to charter for those long flights, they would..and some do. Some supplement their fleets with a frac share for that purpose. These are KNOWN options.
But many (and at the Gstream buying-power level, most) companies opt for ownership because when they send employees abroad...especially high-level exec types....they want to retain operational control over the situation. They WANT their own security, pilot, mx, and dispatchers, not someone they pluck out of a phone book. As the situation exists today, especially for Americans, this takes on even more importance and Accountability, as you bring up, encompasses a much broader range than than DOCs. What you brush aside as no biggie....no operational control to save a few bucks... is indeed a huge consideration for some.
So let's put aside this notion that anyone using a Gstream is stupid because they don't buy something smaller and just use that money to charter, and compare the Legacy to similar aircraft that are ALREADY fitted to the job you've defined. If you suggest that Gulfstream owners should send them to the boneyard and replace them with Legacies on sheer effeciency, then I'd imagine there will be a stampede to trade in something less capable than the Legacy for the same price!
With similar aquisition costs, range, and cabin cross-section (consult the Average Table where you found the Avg Stage Length and I'm sure you'll find that the "Avg Pax Per Stage" is far less than the seating capacity of a Legacy...and hey, it's your rules) the Falcon 2000/-EX and Challenger 604 seat 10/12, and are already filling that bill and can go transcon and certainly do those 2.9 hour stage lengths you're using as a barometer for "Best Aircraft". How does the Legacy compare to these two? You stated you liked facts and reasonable discussion, so please provide some facts.
The Falcon and Challenger have a bigger cross section inside I believe. I think both are wider than the Gulfstream..How does the Legacy compare?
They both faster and higher, with its inherent advantages, and do it effeciently. Its not like a Falcon has to struggle into the 40s.
I believe they both have lower DOCs than the Legacy (1615 hour posted here).
And to get back to the original question this thread asked...what are the numbers for T/O and land performance? The original poster, LegacyDriver, didn't even put up the numbers for comparison so anyone could answer his own question. You've not come forth any either. All we've heard are "feelings" about how tough Legacies are, declarative statements of how perf and redundant systems are bad, opinions that Magic Boxes are nonessential yet "ergonomics" are something to be proud of, and whimsical notions that accountant-less companies blindly fling money into the wind, yee-hawing as they trot up their Gulfstream stairs.
Now, knowing that this whole now-miserable thread was designed specifically to smoke out and yank the chain of G-guys, it nonetheless provided fodder for debate, but now I'm getting bored because no specifics are forthcoming....no new fodder.
So please, for the love of god, country, Jonathan Livingston Seagull and all the rest that's holy in aviation...what are the T/O and landing perf numbers for the Legacy?
Oh, and is it really limited to airports 8,500' elevation or less?
