Shooting Myself in the Foot: Corporate Q's

[Goose Egg]

Hey All,

I need some advice. I have an interview with an outfit that flies PC-12s.

I'm actually thrilled about the opportunity--flying all around the east coast, good pay, good equipment, stable company, etc. And a chance to do something other than instruct. (After around 500 hours of dual given, I can feel myself starting to burn out a little bit.)

Now, here's the dilema: I only have about 30 hours of multi-engine time total. My question is that if I take this job with the PC-12, In the end I would have bucket-loads of turbine PIC time, but only 30 hours of multi time.

So, the way that I see it, I have 3 options:

1) Take the job, risk not having the multi.

2) Take the job, buy the multi time

3) Stick it out, get another 70 hours in the mighty PA44, apply to a regional, and then go from there.

Oh, and I suppose I have an option 4) Stick it out, and go back to the PC-12 outfit and then go from there.

How marketable to corporate operators would I be with several thousand hours of PC-12 time, but only 30 hours in a multi? Would I be shooting myself in the foot by taking this job? I appreciate any advice that anyone could offer. I think I know which option I'm leaning towards, but it never hurts to have a second (or third, or fourth, etc.) pair of eyes have a look at the situation, especially if those eyes are experienced.

Thanks all,
-Goose

 

[BushwickBill]

Do you get training?

If not 2 pilot time in the Pilati is a joke. Unless it is dual received.

Might be boring. Not much going on with that airplane. Plus you'll be low and in the crappy weather a lot. So you'll learn about that but if the PIC is a dick wad he could kill you.

However, may lead into good paying PIC work in the future if you play your cards right. Hell if you can afford to buy multi time with the pay then you are already doing all right.

I have 2 right seat single pilot jobs. The only reason I'm doing it is to network for the future and get a good paying part 91 job. 121 just does not fit my personality and my friends who fly for the regionals have to live in ******************** holes. I go mountain biking on sick single track on my days off and I'm sill wearing shorts and a jersey in November. Gotta do what works for you.

I can hardly afford to pay my rent and car payment - not to mention running up the side of some muddy ass hill with a space age carbon fiber bike with 190 dollar sew up cross tires. I think it's cool you like cross though.

Best of luck to you.

 

[G21Agoose]

Hey All,

I need some advice. I have an interview with an outfit that flies PC-12s.

I'm actually thrilled about the opportunity--flying all around the east coast, good pay, good equipment, stable company, etc. And a chance to do something other than instruct. (After around 500 hours of dual given, I can feel myself starting to burn out a little bit.)

Now, here's the dilema: I only have about 30 hours of multi-engine time total. My question is that if I take this job with the PC-12, In the end I would have bucket-loads of turbine PIC time, but only 30 hours of multi time.

So, the way that I see it, I have 3 options:

1) Take the job, risk not having the multi.

2) Take the job, buy the multi time

3) Stick it out, get another 70 hours in the mighty PA44, apply to a regional, and then go from there.

Oh, and I suppose I have an option 4) Stick it out, and go back to the PC-12 outfit and then go from there.

How marketable to corporate operators would I be with several thousand hours of PC-12 time, but only 30 hours in a multi? Would I be shooting myself in the foot by taking this job? I appreciate any advice that anyone could offer. I think I know which option I'm leaning towards, but it never hurts to have a second (or third, or fourth, etc.) pair of eyes have a look at the situation, especially if those eyes are experienced.

Thanks all,
-Goose

It really depends on your future goals- if you wish to go the airline route I think waiting and going to a regional is a better bet. However, if you might go the 135 or 91 career route IMO the Pilatus job will put you into a great position and you can build multi time slowly. The Pilatus is a great plane with EFIS, pressurization, 30,000 ft ceiling, TCAS, EGPWS etc (in other words a complex turbine aircraft- even though it's only a single) and will give you good experience in airway operations etc. in a professional environment. It is fun to fly and I think a great step from instructing. Also you will meet more people who might help in the future. I would take the Pilatus job- whatever you decide, good luck.

 

[Goose Egg]

Thanks so far for the input, guys.

I go mountain biking on sick single track on my days off and I'm sill wearing shorts and a jersey in November. Gotta do what works for you. I can hardly afford to pay my rent and car payment - not to mention running up the side of some muddy ass hill with a space age carbon fiber bike with 190 dollar sew up cross tires. I think it's cool you like cross though.

To be fair, the cross bike I'm building has an aluminum frame, and will most likely have clinchers (at least for the time being). I am a CFI, after all. But yeah, cross guys are weird. I'll admit it.

But I do ride an MTB too (Specialized Stumpjumper Hardtail - XT/LX w/mechanical discs... pretty sweet ride). And around here it's been shorts and jersey weather lately, although, that's destined to change!

Looking forward to any more advice!

-Goose

 

[g4800xp]

The PC12 is a tank, built like a brick and has a nice glass panel. If you are going to fly out of MHT you are getting in to a very good operation and they seem to do things right. I think that turbine time in the soup, busy in and out of both JFK,TEB,BOS as well as podunk, in fact I think they can reach PBI nonstop, will go farther career wise than single engine with a occasional milti time. You are flying 135/91 in a state of the art plane in the real world. Come to me with 3000 hours instructing and you are another resume from a instructor, but come in with 1500tt and 500 of it in the real world on a turbine and you are far ahead. I would be looking for a guy who can order catering, preflight, flight plan, set up handling and make life easier for me and you only get that in the real world. Just my thoughts. pm me if you get a minute.

 

[sleepy]

Where do you want to be in 5 years?

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

I'd assume you're talking about Alpha Flying in MHT correct?? If so, ask yourself not only where you want to be in one-two years but where you want to be in the long-term. Unless you want to settle down in New Hampshire then this is not a long-term company. For a year or two, maybe.

I'll give you the good and the bad:

The Good

• Good health care coverage, you'll pay very little for this benefit.
• You'll fly plenty of various places, maybe 200 different airports in a year
• As mentioned, it's a turbine and the opportunity to learn and become familiar with those systems.
• Per-Diem is good, $2.00 an hour however it was recently increased for the first time in 4-5 years. This is not considered pay however.
• As a low-time CFI, you'll build up flight time, cross-country time, actual, night time.
• Some nice destinations, mostly in the winter. You'll see FL and the Bahamas quite often.
• Pilot group is solid other than a few tattle-tails and slam clickers. The company you keep on overnights is usually enjoyable.

The Bad

• You may not know it yet, but they'll require you to sign a 1.5 year contract to fly in the right seat of that PC-12. What do you think that tells you about the company? Maybe that it's not too good of a job if they need people in the right seat to be signing 1.5 year deals.
• Pay is Horrible. 25K to start. The same as it has been for 5 plus years.
• Captain pay is horrible as well. 36k to start and there is a two year contract that management requires you to sign. This a single-engine Pilatus for lousy money, not a Falcon 900.
• No multi-time.
• No Union and the pilots will probably need one. A couple of pilots were accused of putting a plane into a 90 degree bank last summer. By someone on the ground that told the company. Most pilots found it unlikely to be true and the pilots in question were given letters in their company file about the alleged incident. A Union would have tossed this BS aside right away.
• Management. Give you an example, there used to be a website http://www.afdrivers.com that a pilot set up for the pilots to converse anonymously. Company found out who started it and had it shut down. They could use some training in relationship management with the pilots although there is one management pilot most of the pilots feel comfortable speaking to. When 91k was first published, management told the pilots for recordkeeping purposes that flight time would be tracked using wheels up to wheels down time. Of course the FAR says as soon as you run the aircraft by it's own power. This is no secret. It was an oily move to push the flight time limits by the company. Thankfully, the pilots shot that one down right away. I could give you numerous other examples.

Quite a few pilots have left the company in the last few months. I'd guess 10 or so out of 75 total. One or two left for regional jet jobs. If you have a chance to continue building multi-time at a clip that will get you 100 multi relatively soon, I'd go with doing that and not sign a ridiculous contract. That 121 turbojet time will open up far more doors for you down the road than will some right seat or left seat PC-12 time. You won't find much on the company on this website simply because the management team would look to find out who wrote anything that wasn't glowingly kind about the company. There is one pilot on here that will probably run to management as soon as they see this post. If you want more information, send me a pm.

 

[g4800xp]

Great questions guys, I have to ask, can you get a 121 job with 100 multi and will it pay 25k? I hate contracts but they can be also show a future employer you are a man of your word. Can work both ways. It may beat flying a wscod hauling cargo for nothing for a year or two. I would think a year and a half of it would make you a good candidate for commuter job if that is the direction you are going. You may think about saving up( I know, nearly impossible) or taking out a loan to buy a block of multi to get you in range, look at it as a investment in your future. but what do I know!

 

[Charlie Brown]

If it is a right seat job, I would not waste my time. The airplane only requires one pilot. Go to a regional or 135 TP/jet where you at least would be a required crewmember.

 

[NotFurloughed]

Required..

Flights under 91 K would require a second cremember - even in the lowly Pilatus. Welcome to the Fractional world...

The Pilatus gig isn't bad, it opened up MANY doors for me, but was a different company back then. It's good flying, good equipment and good maintenance. You get a variety of flying, a set schedule and very reasonable benefits. Pay's not great but neither is FO pay at a regional. You dont have to commute to CVG or EWR and have crash pad while you spend 5 years in the right seat of an RJ. As far as the altitude - the CRJ tops out in the high 20's when its heavy. So the whole "you'l' be doggin in the weather" is a moot point. Although I'd rather be doggin with 2 engines.

Do you want to be underpaid as an FO in a single turboprop or severely underpaid as an FO on a 50 Pax jet?

Do you love NH? It seems that most people that have been there a while have roots in the state - and since there are sooooo many flying jobs in NH.....well, you get the picture.

 

[Bank-n-Yank]

I agree with the above post. AF will give you the ability to have a good QOL while you gain more experience in the industry.
As an additional benefit, if you're a cyclist [see 1st few posts], NH is an excellent place to put many quality miles behind you. Who could complain with a CX race every weekend in the fall and track racing in the summer??

 

[Goose Egg]

Thanks for the awesome replies guys. Some very good things to think about. You guessed it right too, it was Alpha...

And for the record, NH is ok... Parts of it I really like... (the TREMENDOUS road biking, for example) but I'm not particularly attached to it.

-Goose

 

[rthepilot]

Option 3. Good Luck to you.

 

[NYYfan]

well a few people like rollos posted correctly about the company there are a ton a good things about the company but there are some neg things just like any company...I used to fly for this outfit and things were great but i had the same concerns as you do. I have many friends flying for the regs making less than 25 and some doing alright with the regs.......its gonna break down to what you really want to do. The airlines may look down on it while some may say yeah thats great you ll do alright. Alpha is only going to continue to build up. They have a lot of great plans for the future and thats great but i am happy that i moved. when i saw that afdrivers website was closed i thought that was complete bs and mgmt had to of had a lot to do with it. Not all the mgmt there is bad its just a few that shouldnt be there all together but oh well that happens everywhere. If you decide to take it its a good move and you will be flying a lot since they need pilots. the contract sucks and its there because ppl were getting good job offers and leaving (me being one of them). So yea that sucks but it should tell you the job offers in the corporate field are there and ppl value the time ur getting there.....its a fun job and a great airplane. if you have any questions on this comp feel free to pm me and ill let you know more

 

[Goose Egg]

Option 3. Good Luck to you.

Hey all,

Just an update... I gave it a lot of thought and there were good reasons to go either way, but I really couldn't get past my total lack of multi time and forgoing an immediate opportunity to get it.... well, that and the 1.5 year contract. A year and a half is making captain in a multi-turbine at some outfits. That's hard to turn your back on when multi time is so important down the road.

So, I decided to hold off. I'm going with option #3, get my 100 and see what happens.

Thanks you all for the input! It really helped!

-Goose

 

[AA717driver]

You better buy the carbon mtb while you're single or you'll be riding a 75 lb. Iron Horse I got on an internet sale like me... TC

 

[Len]

Naa, steal that money from your kid's college fund!

 

[BushwickBill]

I'm single and all of my bikes are CroMo. That way when I'm old (and still broke) the bikes will continue to work! Good luck to you all...

 

[Goose Egg]

Aluminum, dudes... aluminum and clinchers. That's all I can afford right now.

Is it just me, or have you guys found that you really like to work on bikes too. I'm not sure what it is, but I really like it. I think it all started when I bought my first road bike, but I wanted to use a different wheelset than the one that came stock, but with original cassette. So with the advice from the bike shop, I made the change myself. Now I'm adjusting deraileurs and pulling cranks and all kinds of fun stuff. Not only do I love to ride, but I love to wrench too! I think I found a hobby! (I guess that will keep the future wife (whomever she may be) happy--no repair bills for bikes... if only greens fees were so easily dealt with.)

Anyway, I think for me, carbon on an MTB and anywhere other than the fork on a road bike would be overkill, and I think I'd actually prefer aluminum on a CX bike... besides, if I were going to put a lot of $$ into a CX bike, it's probably gonna be drivetrain/tires.

Ahh... I just love talking bikes. It's almost as fun as talking airplanes!

-Goose

 

[BushwickBill]

Not the first, not the last.

Love it all. Wrenching, talking, most of all ripping the best singletrack the world has to offer. Right now I'm running a Paramont with a new Dura Ace groupo. I also have a WTB pheonix for the dirt. Both Cro Mo. My goal with aviation is to make enough money to ride nice bikes but have enough time off to go fast. So far its working out ok.

Of course I'm not the first. It's nice to have something in common with the Wrights. I've read they preformed early aerodynamic tests on the handlebars of the bike. I guess it was cheaper than a wind tunnel.

http://www.wright-brothers.org/History/Wright Story/riding.htm

 

[Len]

Today I was ten miles from the house and the boss called and said "can we leave in an hour and a half?" I said yeah no problem! I was at lactate threshold all the way home. I got home, showered, and preflight at the airport before he even got there.

25 miles on my trusty Cervelo Soloist Carbon and 2.7hrs in my trusty Baron. Home before 3pm. Life is good!

 

[BushwickBill]

Today I was ten miles from the house and the boss called and said "can we leave in an hour and a half?" I said yeah no problem! I was at lactate threshold all the way home. I got home, showered, and preflight at the airport before he even got there.

25 miles on my trusty Cervelo Soloist Carbon and 2.7hrs in my trusty Baron. Home before 3pm. Life is good!

So far I'm voting this as the coolest thread of FI so far. Lets keep it going -publish your riding/flying stories here. Bike Geeks Dominate!

 

[Corona]

So far I'm voting this as the coolest thread of FI so far. Lets keep it going -publish your riding/flying stories here. Bike Geeks Dominate!

Who cares about flying?

When I lived in AK, I did a 50-mile+ mountain bike ride in & out of Denali (Mt. McKinley) National Park on the gravel road. It was early fall, and the scenery was incredible. Come to think of it, all the mountain bike riding in AK was awesome. I still have that bike frame (20 yr-old triple-butted cromoly Univega), but it's waiting in the garage for new parts when I get extra cashola.
The only thing that sucked in AK was I couldn't ride in winter (military wouldn't allow 2-whl vehicles on base during that loooong season). I'd have killed for a modern Hase trike or something to git me around instead of driving my car.

Good memories (& good thread)!

C

 

[Goose Egg]

I've been having some fun messing around with my old Specialized Hardrock. Last night I took off the crankset, front deraileur, and the front shifter. Stripped down the crankset and then rebuilt it using only one chainring (the biggest) and put the spacers on the opposite side to keep the chain from falling off when I shifted to the highest cog in the rear. It was fun! I now have a partial single-speed.

Anyway, these folks here in the Northeast think that they go mountain biking, but they really just ride through the woods. I grew up in the West though. That was some real mountain biking. I could have gotten to Moab in about 3 hours of driving, but honestly I never bothered because the stuff that was 20 minutes from my house was SO good. I was there almost daily. I miss that. I'm glad I discovered road, wrenching, and CX, otherwise my cycling universe would have collapsed on itself, but those were good times. My typical day was: Get up, go to school/fly, eat, bike/golf, watch Simpsons, eat, and go to bed. Oh yeah, I guess I would do a little working in there too There was some prime single-track, no doubt about it, but I think what I relished was the climbs... oh the climbs. Fire roads ascending into the sky, like some sort of washboard staircase. I MISS that! Some guys love to bomb, I love to climb. (Which I guess is a bit ironic because I have the build of a sprinter.)

...and the thing was that I was having the time of my life on a mountain bike that cost $600 new. (that Specialized Hard Rock that I was talking about earlier) I just threw on some bar-ends and clipless pedals and went for it. Good times.... Great times!

Which is not to say that there isn't good mountain biking here in the east... there definitely is, it's just that you have to drive a lot further, and you have to share it with a lot more people when you get there.

And to think I got into mountain biking because I was reacting to some stupid girl who broke up with me... all things considered, I think I got the better end of the deal.



-Goose

 

[BushwickBill]

Who cares about flying?

The only thing that sucked in AK was I couldn't ride in winter (military wouldn't allow 2-whl vehicles on base during that loooong season). I'd have killed for a modern Hase trike or something to git me around instead of driving my car.

Good memories (& good thread)!

C

Hey do you have a link for one of these trikes? The riding in AK sounds epic. I just finished putting a new chain on my MTB. Gearing up for the Turkey day ride. It starts in Fairfax (the self proclaimed birthplace of the mountain bike). Last year they stopped counting riders at about 750. The weather here has been all time. Surfed at Ocean Beach this weekend and there are quite a few good rides on the menu for next week. Stoked the Captain is at recurrency.

Life is good.

 

[AA717driver]

double post

 

[AA717driver]

I just got into MTB'ing (the roadie thing just didn't do it for me...) because it's something that always interested me and I'd been riding the hills around my house and wanted more. (AND...I'm 48 and my weight was up to 225 @ 5'11" and that was bull! I've dropped 27 lbs. and still going.)

I'm doing trail running now and have slacked off the riding because I dinged the tendon in my elbow and can't pull up the steep hills or off the logs without reinjuring it. I'll be back in the spring.

Another guy in the department started riding about the same time. He got a GF Hi-Fi. Great ride--weighs about half what my 'Horse comes in at. Talking carbon fiber, there was a guy out in PHX who wrote a report on ridemonkey a while back. He broke three or four carbon stumpy frames and had pics of the frames and where he was riding--no huge drops. Specialized replaced them all and finally gave him his money back.

I just don't think carbon is the answer.

What we need to know is where to rent mtb's in LAX? There are some awsome trails on the ocean-side of Palos Verde just south of the Torrence airport. Any suggestions? We thought about throwing the bikes in the back but we airline a lot.

Good topic! Keep it coming. TC

 

[Goose Egg]

Carbon on an MTB is nothing but a misapplication of a good thing. When I first heard that they were making mountain frames out of carbon, it even caught me by surprise then. I certainly wouldn't buy a carbon MTB (although the point is somewhat moot because it's more of an economic barrier right now ) Besides, the advantage due to weight difference would be negligable to anyone but the elite mountain biker. That's just what I think though...

-Goose

 

[Bank-n-Yank]

AA717Driver,
May I suggest building up a bike with S&S Couplings ( www.sandsmachine.com )? You can bring your current bike to any local frame shop or quality local bike shop and have them installed. Also on the website, scroll two-thirds down the site and you'll see a hard shell carrying case that is 26"x26"x10". It truly makes the whole bike really portable and does away with oversize airline fees.

I'm in the process right now of working with a local frame builder so that I can bring a road bike with me in the Beechjet. So what if the pax's have five sets of golf clubs..... my bike is staying with the plane. Ha.

Anyways, congrats on the weight loss. Cycling is an excellent way to get some fresh air and maintain that 1st class medical.

Happy trails.

 

[Len]

I'm not sure I would ever ride a carbon MTB. I would consider it dangerous. Maybe I'm just uneducated on the subject but thats my opinion. Who makes them anyway?

Road bikes are different though. I used to be a 'steel is real' guy with my 853 steel Lemond w/ Ultegra. Let me tell you, I don't care how fat you are, I was too. Carbon in a road bike is it. You CAN tell the difference. I am a true believer. Expensive wheels? You CAN tell the difference. Next I'm gonna try a bottom bracket w/ ceramic bearings. They're not that expensive. We'll see.

Goose. Good luck on your employment!