Seniority has everything to do with longevity

[michael707767]

One final thought, though. I believe that your seniority at Skywest, Cape Air, or Delta is of equivalent value. If Delta bought any one of those carriers, or there was a merger, I believe that your seniority should be weighted based on accepted standards, I don't care if it's a 402 you flew or a 744. A professional airline pilot is a professional airline pilot.

All professional pilots may be equal (I disagree by the way, but for the sake of argument) fine. But the jobs professional pilots occupy are not equal. A pilot flying a 402 has no right to be merged into a position to hop into a 747 seat, I don't care how long he/she has been flying that 402. To do so disregards the hard work of someone who has done all it takes to be in the position of flying a 747.

 

[waveflyer]

I agree michael, but outsourcing has seriously muddied the waters.
The achievement of getting hired at a regional is not equal to getting hired onto a major- but the entry level major job is now severely delayed bc of rjs- and what's the difference between an rj and a Fokker or dc9?
I can't express what a collossal sellout the outsourcing has been in the 2000s. My generation has every right to fight for the same career opportunities that major pilots seem more than willing to sell.

 

[DustyBottoms]

Simpsons did it.

I just spit up some water, that one snuck up on me. nice.

 

[PHXFLYR]

So everything is based on longevity?

MCDU - longevity is used for what you get within you own airline, relative to the other pilots at that airline. If you are a junior Captain and your airline merges with another, you still remain a junior Captain, no matter how long you or your seniority-list-neighbor from the other airline have been at your jobs. The word there is seniority list, not longevity list. THAT is what longevity is about - and that is not a 'spin for personal gain'.

HAL

Exactly. And a perfect example of this is what happened to an old college friend of mine who got hired at USAir in 1987 way before any of the mergers, either the PSA/Piedmont USAir 3 way merge in the late 80's early 90's or the more recent one with AWA.

T never got furloughed since hiring on at USAir in 1987, nor did he ever upgrade to Captain in all his time with his airline, although he could held F28 captain in the early 90's. However ,he chose not to because he didn't like the short haul nature of the flying that the airplane did . His choice, I guess. But I would have played that hand a little differently.


After 2 trips thru BK court, all the furloughs , displacements loss of pension salaries etc. he wound up 60 from the bottom on his own senority list ,a B737 reserve F/O out of CLT.


Now ask yourself 2 questions. Did my friend havelongevity at his own original airline ?Absolutely without a doubt. Did that longevity at his own original airline buy him a senior position at his own airline ? In other words did he have seniority at his own original airline prior to the merger ? Not by a long shot. Even though T got hired at USAIr in 1987 and was never furloughed, the best that longevity date got for him was a very junior positon on his own stand alone seniority list,which is admittedly better than being furloughed outright.

So now the prevailing wisdom on the east side is that T and others like him should leapfrog over guys like my crashpad roomate L who hired on at AWA in 1988 who until recently was a Line holding 757 Capt flying our Hawaii trips until getting displaced to senior A320 Capt with our recent cutbacks, and whose name can be found on the AWA Pilot Seniority list ( a totally different distinct and seperate list than the one my friend T's name can be found on , I mighgt add. )


Until the east pilots of this airline realize that longevity does not a senior pilot make, and that there is nothing you can do to change that fact maybe we can move on to more important issues like contact improvements and pay raises that will benefit all USAIRways pilots ,east and west; regardless of where you are on the combined list .


Be very thankful you got recalled to Hawaiian ...very thankful.

PHXFLYR

 

[MCDU]

The bottom pilot according to the nic,was only in that position for a short time. 1988 hire all were or could have held capt and are now once again in that position or close to it. The snapshot in 2005 was a complete rape of a someones career. No fences and not taking the attrition in to factor made the nic toxic. Ask yourself why one group wants the nic and one will fight to the bitter end. Just like midex pilots who deserve their Doh.

M

 

[Scope out RJ's]

The bottom pilot according to the nic,was only in that position for a short time. 1988 hire all were or could have held capt and are now once again in that position or close to it. The snapshot in 2005 was a complete rape of a someones career. No fences and not taking the attrition in to factor made the nic toxic. Ask yourself why one group wants the nic and one will fight to the bitter end. Just like midex pilots who deserve their Doh.

M

Hey doosh:
I realize you're a very confused woman these days..........

Marty claiming to have started at US Air in 1997

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848465#post848411

Marty claiming to be a UAL pilot.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1224345#post1224345

Marty recently claiming not to work for Us Air.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1830329#post1830329

 

[PHXFLYR]

The bottom pilot according to the nic,was only in that position for a short time. 1988 hire all were or could have held capt and are now once again in that position or close to it. The snapshot in 2005 was a complete rape of a someones career. No fences and not taking the attrition in to factor made the nic toxic. Ask yourself why one group wants the nic and one will fight to the bitter end. Just like midex pilots who deserve their Doh.

M

If that attrition was so important to you guys as it should be then why wasn't that issue addressed before the process moved to mediation and finally arbitration when we had our 2 negotiting committees trying to put something together? Or was it just more advantageous to try and ram a DOH intergration down our throughts hoping no one out west was paying any attention ? Why was it when our case were presented before the arbitrator ,he called us back into his chambers to give us another 10 days to modify our proposals before he ruled and you guys wouldn't back down from your original DOH presentation ?


PHXFLYR

 

[MCDU]

Those are all good and valid points. East pilots should have known Nicolaus history and should have worked on fences and protections. Doh was not going to happen with George and he should never have been used while pursuing a DOH list.

M

 

[PHXFLYR]

Yes they are. And thanks for recognizing that . Now care to try respond to them ? Regarding DOH, don't you think you would have been better off trying to negotiate something other than a DOH list in the first place ? Seems to me and many others that all you did the short time the process was under the auspicies of the 2 merger comittees was negotiate in bad faith with the end result coming back to bite you in the a$$. Now that you guys have this thing FUBAR ,the big question is where do we (as a combined pilot group for a change) go from here ?


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

The bottom pilot according to the nic,was only in that position for a short time. 1988 hire all were or could have held capt and are now once again in that position or close to it. The snapshot in 2005 was a complete rape of a someones career. No fences and not taking the attrition in to factor made the nic toxic. Ask yourself why one group wants the nic and one will fight to the bitter end. Just like midex pilots who deserve their Doh.

M

C'mon Marty,not true and you know it. According to 2 friends I have over there ,the 1987 hire I went to college with that I mention in my post, and a 1988 hire who I flew commuters with and had a few beers with in SAN a few months ago, neither one can hold Captain in any aircraft, not even the 190. They aren't any closer to the left seat now than they were pre-merger.

By the way, I gotta ask. Who's the hottie in your avatar ?

PHXFLYR