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Seat recline fight diverts another flight

DieselDragRacer

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Another day, another fight about reclining seats on a U.S. airline flight.

In the third serious airline legroom incident in two weeks, an angry passenger caused yet another flight to divert Monday night.


Delta Air Lines Flight 2370 from New York's LaGuardia Airport to West Palm Beach, Florida, was rerouted to Jacksonville, Florida. A passenger became irate about the traveler in front of her trying to recline her seat, a fellow passenger told CNN affiliate WPTV.


"This woman who was sitting next to me knitting actually just tried reclining her seat back," passenger Aaron Klipin said. "The woman behind her started screaming and swearing and then a flight attendant came over and that just exacerbated what was going on and then she demanded that the flight land."


Delta confirmed the diversion.


"Delta flight 2370 from New York-LaGuardia to West Palm Beach was re-routed to Jacksonville International Airport due to a passenger disruption," Delta said in a statement. "Out of an abundance of caution, the Captain elected to divert to the closest airport."


Local law enforcement removed the passenger and the flight continued to West Palm Beach, Delta said.


It's been a tense couple of weeks for passengers on both sides of the right-to-recline debate.


Another reportedly irate passenger caused a flight from Miami to Paris to divert to Boston on August 27 after someone allegedly tried to recline in front of him.


Paris resident Edmund Alexandre, 60, was charged in U.S. federal court August 28 with interfering with an airline flight crew.



Interfering with flight crew members is a violation of federal law and carries a sentence of up to 20 years in prison. (The passenger's name has also been spelled "Edmond" Alexandre in court documents.)


A United Airlines flight from Newark, New Jersey, to Denver was diverted on August 24 after two passengers argued over one passenger's use of a "Knee Defender," a device that blocks reclining.


Should the Knee Defender be banned?


Water was thrown and the passengers, both 48, were removed from the flight in Chicago, according to a federal law enforcement source, speaking on background. The passengers were not arrested.


It seems at least one of the passengers was not completely satisfied with the extra space in the Economy Plus section where they were seated, which provides United passengers up to 5 inches of extra legroom compared with standard coach seats.


Aviation blogger Benet Wilson is surprised there haven't been more incidents in the air as travelers face long security checkpoint lines at more crowded airports as well as less space and fewer amenities on planes.


"As airlines try and squeeze as many seats into economy as possible, that decreases seat pitch which can be uncomfortable for someone like me, who is 5'3"," wrote Wilson via e-mail.


"But imagine being a foot taller squeezed into that same space. It doesn't help that the (Federal Aviation Administration) doesn't have an official rule on using (seat-blocking devices), instead deferring to passengers and airlines. So I feel the situation will get worse before it gets better."


The core problem is definitely the airlines packing too many seats too close together into a tight space, said veteran flight attendant Heather Poole, author of "Cruising Attitude: Tales of Crashpads, Crew Drama, and Crazy Passengers at 35,000 Feet."


"That said, this doesn't give anyone the right to act childish," Poole wrote via e-mail. "To react in such a way that the crew feels the need to divert a flight to have a passenger removed is a really big deal."
 

Roomwithaview

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West Palm Beach + LaGuardia = flight with a lot of a$$holes.

If flight crews were just better trained in the art of CRM, and would learn to be better stewards of customer complaints and differences, then all these unnecessary diverts could be avoided.

I recommend more diversity and inclusion training.
 

General Lee

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If flight crews were just better trained in the art of CRM, and would learn to be better stewards of customer complaints and differences, then all these unnecessary diverts could be avoided.

I recommend more diversity and inclusion training.

Yeah, let people who yell and fight have their way.... Riiiiight. I guarantee that pax who was let off in JAX won't do that again. You sound like Obama.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 

gutshotdraw

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Yeah, let people who yell and fight have their way.... Riiiiight. I guarantee that pax who was let off in JAX won't do that again. You sound like Obama.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Uh....I think he was joking amigo. At least I hope so.
 

General Lee

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Uh....I think he was joking amigo. At least I hope so.

It's tough to tell sometimes on an anonymous website. If so, then I'm sorry.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 

rumpletumbler

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Give FA's tasers. Also require passengers to bathe and make it a federal crime to remove your shoes and thread your fingers through your toes on all aircraft even private a/c.
 

jonjuan

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Give FA's tasers.

Well, that's a good idea. Wonder how hard it will be for Johnny terrorist to grab the taser away from grandma while she's in the galley stuffing her bags full of F class leftovers for her cats.
 

Baronman

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FA's with tasers? Horrible idea....

"This guy in 6B was giving me attitude....then I think he bumped me and when he didn't apologize I let loose on him with the taser....Can we divert now? You think they'll cancel my DFW layover cause of this? I have a commute to catch..."
 

Dan Roman

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I'll stir the pot here, how come he diverted? It seems to me rather than cater to some passenger "demanding to land the aircraft" I would have continued the extra few minutes to my destination and just made sure the police met the airplane.
1) Was the safety of the flight really enhanced by diverting?
I don't see that
2) You could make a case that diverting could have caused more of a problem in what is already a couple of mentally unstable idiots?

That said, I wasn't there, all the cockpit crew has to work with is what the F/A's are telling them, but it sure seems they could have kept the crazies subdued till they got to their destination.
 

Flyer1015

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I'll stir the pot here, how come he diverted? It seems to me rather than cater to some passenger "demanding to land the aircraft" I would have continued the extra few minutes to my destination and just made sure the police met the airplane.
1) Was the safety of the flight really enhanced by diverting?
I don't see that
2) You could make a case that diverting could have caused more of a problem in what is already a couple of mentally unstable idiots?

That said, I wasn't there, all the cockpit crew has to work with is what the F/A's are telling them, but it sure seems they could have kept the crazies subdued till they got to their destination.

Agreed. It's one thing if they were over the Carolinas and diverted to CLT or something. But if you are going to PBI and are close enough to make it into JAX, why not just continue?
 

DUBLINFLYER

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The airlines involved in diverts due to passenger unruly problems should publish the cost of the divert and that they are sending the bill to the responsible passenger, once they see the large amounts involved the future passengers might think twice. Don't let them use the "seat defender" as I'm sure its not part of the seat design that was approved by the FAA.
 

CA1900

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Don't let them use the "seat defender" as I'm sure its not part of the seat design that was approved by the FAA.

Ever get a tray table where one arm is bent down farther than the other, and the tray won't lay flat? This stupid gizmo is why.
 

Roomwithaview

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Dan

I'll stir the pot here, how come he diverted? It seems to me rather than cater to some passenger "demanding to land the aircraft" I would have continued the extra few minutes to my destination and just made sure the police met the airplane.
1) Was the safety of the flight really enhanced by diverting?
I don't see that
2) You could make a case that diverting could have caused more of a problem in what is already a couple of mentally unstable idiots?

That said, I wasn't there, all the cockpit crew has to work with is what the F/A's are telling them, but it sure seems they could have kept the crazies subdued till they got to their destination.

Are you an airline pilot? Or, are you still bombing around in your 172?

The airlines have these things called QRHs and when the lawyers are quizzing you on the stand they like to ask if you used them or not.

Guess they don't teach common strategy in your quansit hut. Or, things about "dry runs", diversions and what not.

Please be a "free thinker" next time you're involved in an event that is readily accessible in the QRH. The company heads love dudes like that. You'll probably get a kick pineapple sticker and shiny medallion.
 

SWA Bubba

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Hey Dan,

Now you know why we all love Roomwithaview at Southwest so much--it's his sparkling demeanor and optimism. He's so uplifting, not to mention a genuine joy to be around! :beer:

Bubba
 

waveflyer

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Thanks bubba, was going to say the same thing too.
Please let's all debate common strategy on the internet. That's an even better idea.

Room, your disdain for thinking in a flight deck makes me think you're a hat wearer-
Without knowing how bad it got, and I never trust media reports, I don't see why one couldn't press on another 20 minutes, but then again- maybe the guy has a Harley he's trying to pay off and doesn't mind making an example of idiots bitching about seat reclining after 100 years of passenger service
Where's Louis CK on this
 
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