Seat filler, P-F-T etc. in 135 Cargo

[cdog]

uscpilot:
Who told you that 135 requires 1 mile vis for departure? That only applies to 135 ops out of a military facility or outside the U.S.

Duel given is better quality than sic in a light acft any day. What was your role when you were an f.o. in the light plane, watch the hobbs?

 

[mike1mc]

I could be wrong here, but I thought 1 mile (or RVR equivilent) is the standard for issued Op Specs, but you can get approval for the Lower than Standard Takeoff Minimums as most operators do, but 1 mile is the standard for 1-2 engine aircraft.

I know where you're getting the foreign and military airfield portion, but the rest of 135.225 states the takeoff mins are as listed in Part 91 or in your Ops Specs. I don't think any 135 operation has approval for 0/0 takeoff.

 

[cdog]

Pt. 97.

 

[uscpilot]

cdog,
Look you are obvously wrong about the takeoff visibility min, mike1mc has the the reg right there, look it up. There is no argument. I am pretty sure your reference to 97 refers to nonstandard takeoff min. The 135 rule of one mile is standard, which because of our ops specs we can deviate from.
Look I am not trying to denigrate instructing the way you are trying to denigrate my experience. All I said was that when I reached my 1200 hours total time I was better prepared for flying the line than someone with a background limited to instructing. Do you think someone who has little or no actual IFR time, no experience with t-storms, icing, and flying on a schedule would be anywhere near as ready as I was? Look if you want to call it glorified IOE time and not count it then fine. Most operators only accept so much saftey pilot, glider, or rotor time towards their total. I have no problem with that.
With regards to my "SIC" duties, you are close. We took turns flying legs. The pilot not flying would operate the radios, transponder, and sometimes the gear. I doubt that there was much if any CRM experience gained here (if there was it has long since left me after 2 years of single pilot flying). The real experience is what I spoke about above.
USC

 

[cdog]

uscpilot:
Your ops manual as it is designed, is following the FARs, not superceding them. If wx mins for a particular airport does not meet pt 97 criteria then it is 1 sm. The airports you operate out of meet pt 97.
By the way, I don't care what you log.
Fly safe

 

[uscpilot]

cdog
I see what you are talking about in the applicability section. But that is very vague. It is irrelivant though, part 135 regulates our operation. Im not going to rehash what I have already said. If I am ramp checked and the FAA asks me how I will takeoff with 2400' RVR I will show him my ops specs, not part 97.
Apparently you do care what people log, or you would never have gotten involved in this thread. You tell someone that their time is junk, then when challanged "I dont care what you log"
usc

 

[cdog]

uscpilot:
Your ops specs are written in line with and not superseding the FARs. Ask your C.P.

If by chance; a procedure that is not in line(less restrictive) with a corresponding FAR slips by the FAA and gets approved, you use the company procedure rather than the FAR and get caught, you will lose in court.

If you ever get an airline interview, you will care what you logged, because they are going to see sic in a light sp acft. They have alot of applicants with your qualifications that didn't log sic in a light acft. If you have 3500 or so hrs, delete it. 200 won't make a difference.

Good luck

 

[mike1mc]

Your ops specs are written in line with and not superseding the FARs.

I have to agree with cdog here. The regs usually read in accordance with XXXX or as approved in the operator's Ops Specs. The Ops manual is simply a book of procedures of how your operation will comply with the regs. The Ops Specs, in thier simplest form, tell an operator what they are not approved for.

 

[uscpilot]

cdog
How about supplimental as opposed to supercede?
I am courious how I would loose if the ops specs are approved by the FAA. It seems that the govt would be at fault not me or my company.
I do see what you are saying about removing the hours in question. This is something that I have been pondering ever since I was hired. The last thing I want is to get into an argument with an interview board. I will be wrong no matter how right I think I am.
Fly Safe
usc

 

[bravodude]

i used work for commutair flying a beech 1900d. the airplane was is certified for single pilot ops. in our manual and the fars part 121 we were req. to have two pilots. 1 pic 1 sic. therefore both pilots were able to log flight time. if your ops spec require two pilots and they wewre approved by the feds by all means log it as sic.

 

[mike1mc]

What cdog is saying is that SIC time in anything but the larger twins shouldn't be logged as SIC. I agree that SIC time in a C-172 isn't really that valuable, but even in the BE58, I've learned hands-on about Part 135 Takeoff/Landing mins, CRM, and general 135 operations. I perform most of the navigation in the aircraft hwiel the captain flies and of course babble on the radio, but I feel that my experience as SIC (even in a light tiwn) will give me a tremendous advatnage when it somes time to upgrade to Captain or move into a larger aircraft. I would like to hear how others feel about this.

 

[cdog]

Bravodude:
The 1900 is not certified sp in the U.S. for pax service. 1900 operated 121 or pax 135 is required by the FAR's to be operated with a crew. You could never get SP approval. 1900 is also not considered a light acft.

mike1mc:
There is nothing wrong with flying right seat in a light acft. If you have the chance to ride in the right seat during 135 ops, go. As long as you are enjoying it and learning you get the experience.

Call it operational experience, which it is. Logging it as sic is a different matter.

 

[stingray]

If your company ops specs require an SIC, log it no matter what type of A/C it is, it is leggit and legal SIC time, there is some value in it. granted the value of sic is different in a carvan versus a 1900 or an saab, people will look at the time differently. When you get the chance to move up do it.
If you where going to hire a new SIC into the seat of a CRJ, ERJ, or one of the many types of Business jets out there what type of expierence would you whant them to have. All time is valueable some just has more value!!!!!!

 

[stillaboo]

Look, here's the deal:

If you get an interview for a large 135 or 121 op and you have SIC logged in an airplane that is SP approved by the FARS, you're in some hot water already. Maybe you can pull out your Ops Specs and say that it was approved by the FAA and they'll let it slip, but probably not. Best case scenario, they'll go through the rest of your logbook with a fine toothed comb and find something else you screwed up and nail you there instead. If you somehow logged everything legally, you'll get a very difficult interview.

Why are you logging this SIC time? To impress your buddies in the hanger, or as part of an effort to move on to 121 or large 135 ops? If you're only trying to impress your buddies, log all the SIC you want. If you're trying to move on, then don't log SIC unless it's required by the FARs. Basicly, if you're flying anything smaller than a 1900 (in passenger ops), then you shouldn't have any SIC in your book.

Incidentally, I have never seen an application that has a spot for piston or SE turbine SIC (other than Military fighter SIC, if there is such a thing as a 2 pilot SE military jet), so why are you logging it? There nowhere to put it on the app!

All the good experience you get flying right seat in a Caravan or light twin, yeah, it is good experience. Talk it up at the interview, let it help you in the CRM scenario questions, but don't log it as anything more than TT or MEL or actual instrument.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

Ops Specs

Hi all- Not to rehash the whole ops specs controversy, but I agree with USCpilot. Ops Specs can and sometimes do REPLACE the applicable FAR. One example I can give is an outfit where I used to fly. We had Ops Spec approval for 0/0 takeoffs. That's right, zero ceiling, zero visibility takeoffs. As part of that op spec, we were required to demonstrate the manuever on 6 month checks. With the advent of computerized op specs, the FAA has moved away from granting exemptions like that one, but it's still possible if the operator has a specific need that can be safely met.